The Instigator
smithk96
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Wallstreetatheist
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Wallstreetatheist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 527 times Debate No: 21776
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

smithk96

Pro

In today's society we here about abortion a lot, because of how controversial it is in religion to just regular decision making. It has been thrown around in politics to everyday conversation. I for one am pro-choice, seeing that the situation is suitable. Not because a girl is sixteen and was messing around a got pregnant and doesn't want her parents to know, but because someone got raped and got pregnant or was a part of insect. I am also not for third term abortion, because quite honestly that murder of a human being. At the point where a woman knows that she is pregnant and knows that there is a zygote growing inside of her uterus, and she knows that she wants an abortions she should go to the clinic and get it done then. Not when she is obviously pregnant and then decides that she doesn't want the child. Obviously as you can see here I am a little bit towards pro-life, but I still strongly believe that it is up to the mother, and if the father is there, to make to choice to have a child or not.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

I accept this debate, and now await your main argument in the next round.

Thanks, pro!
Debate Round No. 1
smithk96

Pro

smithk96 forfeited this round.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

Thanks, pro!
Debate Round No. 2
smithk96

Pro

smithk96 forfeited this round.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

Wallstreetatheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
smithk96

Pro

smithk96 forfeited this round.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

I thank my opponent, and will get right into the meatiness of her arguments.


“In today's society we here about abortion a lot, because of how controversial it is in religion to just regular decision making.”


Actually, according to the bible, the Judeo-Christian god is pro-choice. The Judeo-Christian god endorses slavery, misogyny, child abuse, animal abuse, infanticide, abortion, genocide, the killing of witches, homosexuals, and even people working on the sabbath. It is clear to anyone with some moral impulses that this book is not the foundation of morality, yet is, in fact, the opposite of every moral principle we hold in veneration today. Consonant with this, the bible features abortion, infanticide, child abuse, and child murder, not only permitted by god, but commanded by him. If God was truly anti-abortion, he would not have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.

“Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” - Hosea 9:11-16

“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” -Numbers 31:17
“Then Menahem destroyed Tiphsah and all who were in it, and its land from Tirzah, because they did not open their gates to him. So he destroyed it, and tore open all its women who were going to have babies.” -2 Kings 15:16“How honored will be the one who catches your children and throws them against the rock!” -Psalm 137:9




“It has been thrown around in politics to everyday conversation.”
I agree, it is a very divisive issue.



“I for one am pro-choice, seeing that the situation is suitable.”
I don’t think is conceivable to “[see] that the situation is suitable” being that the act of abortion is depriving a human life of its entire future. I have yet to meet someone so callous.



“Not because a girl is sixteen and was messing around a got pregnant and doesn't want her parents to know, but because someone got raped and got pregnant or was a part of insect.”
Although being part insect would be a difficult way to live life, others have managed to push through their lives as bugs, such as Gregor Samsa in The Metamorphosis. What you regret to understand with your analysis that it is morally permissible to kill a fetus if it develops from rape or incest* is that you’re not preventing normal abortions from occurring, simply because the person wanting to get an abortion could claim she was the victim of rape or incest, and continue with the procedure. In effect, you’ve just artificially raised the rape statistics and not decreased the number of abortions.
But, let’s pretend your method did work. Only 1% of abortions are performed on women who are the victims of rape or incest, leaving 99% to go without abortions. This is hardly pro-choice, you are 99% pro-life, meaning that you are advocating the Con on this resolution. [1]




“I am also not for third term abortion, because quite honestly that murder of a human being.”
So at 5 months and 3 weeks, a fetus can be killed, but once 168 hours have past, that fetus is unable to be killed? That transparent, poultry logic has no basis in fact or scientific observation. You’re just stating an arbitrary cutoff point. If you don’t understand the value of a human life or have no principles to stand behind, that position would be sane, but seeing as though most humans do, that position is inane and morally baseless.



“At the point where a woman knows that she is pregnant and knows that there is a zygote growing inside of her uterus, and she knows that she wants an abortions she should go to the clinic and get it done then.”
You apparently are not well-versed in human reproduction. The Zygote exists for only four days, then turns into a blastocyst on the fifth day. [2] No abortion procedure requiring a clinic has been performed within the first four days, what you are referring to would be dealt with a morning-after pill like Plan B.



“Not when she is obviously pregnant and then decides that she doesn't want the child.”
It helps to be “obviously pregnant” before deciding to get an abortion. I can’t exactly walk in one day and ask for one to be performed on me. I agree with you. It always strikes me that the people in favor of abortion have already been born.



“Obviously as you can see here I am a little bit towards pro-life, but I still strongly believe that it is up to the mother, and if the father is there, to make to choice to have a child or not”
You are 99% pro-life, and now that you added another clause about the father’s input. You are about 99.5% pro-life, because you are even further depriving the woman of her supposed “right to choose.”


Conclusion
My opponent argues a pro-choice position, but believes that abortion is only permissible in the first two trimesters (6 months) in the case of rape or incest, pending the father’s input which makes her 99.5% pro-life, and forcing a Con-vote on this resultion. Thank you.



[1]http://abortionno.org...
[2] http://books.google.com...
Debate Round No. 4
smithk96

Pro

smithk96 forfeited this round.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

I thank my opponent, and will get right into the meatiness of her arguments.


“In today's society we here about abortion a lot, because of how controversial it is in religion to just regular decision making.”
Actually, according to the bible, the Judeo-Christian god is pro-choice. The Judeo-Christian god endorses slavery, misogyny, child abuse, animal abuse, infanticide, abortion, genocide, the killing of witches, homosexuals, and even people working on the sabbath. It is clear to anyone with some moral impulses that this book is not the foundation of morality, yet is, in fact, the opposite of every moral principle we hold in veneration today. Consonant with this, the bible features abortion, infanticide, child abuse, and child murder, not only permitted by god, but commanded by him. If God was truly anti-abortion, he would not have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.

“Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” - Hosea 9:11-16

“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” -Numbers 31:17
“Then Menahem destroyed Tiphsah and all who were in it, and its land from Tirzah, because they did not open their gates to him. So he destroyed it, and tore open all its women who were going to have babies.” -2 Kings 15:16“How honored will be the one who catches your children and throws them against the rock!” -Psalm 137:9




“It has been thrown around in politics to everyday conversation.”
I agree, it is a very divisive issue.



“I for one am pro-choice, seeing that the situation is suitable.”
I don’t think is conceivable to “[see] that the situation is suitable” being that the act of abortion is depriving a human life of its entire future. I have yet to meet someone so callous.



“Not because a girl is sixteen and was messing around a got pregnant and doesn't want her parents to know, but because someone got raped and got pregnant or was a part of insect.”
Although being part insect would be a difficult way to live life, others have managed to push through their lives as bugs, such as Gregor Samsa in The Metamorphosis. What you regret to understand with your analysis that it is morally permissible to kill a fetus if it develops from rape or incest* is that you’re not preventing normal abortions from occurring, simply because the person wanting to get an abortion could claim she was the victim of rape or incest, and continue with the procedure. In effect, you’ve just artificially raised the rape statistics and not decreased the number of abortions.
But, let’s pretend your method did work. Only 1% of abortions are performed on women who are the victims of rape or incest, leaving 99% to go without abortions. This is hardly pro-choice, you are 99% pro-life, meaning that you are advocating the Con on this resolution. [1]




“I am also not for third term abortion, because quite honestly that murder of a human being.”
So at 5 months and 3 weeks, a fetus can be killed, but once 168 hours have past, that fetus is unable to be killed? That transparent, poultry logic has no basis in fact or scientific observation. You’re just stating an arbitrary cutoff point. If you don’t understand the value of a human life or have no principles to stand behind, that position would be sane, but seeing as though most humans do, that position is inane and morally baseless.



“At the point where a woman knows that she is pregnant and knows that there is a zygote growing inside of her uterus, and she knows that she wants an abortions she should go to the clinic and get it done then.”
You apparently are not well-versed in human reproduction. The Zygote exists for only four days, then turns into a blastocyst on the fifth day. [2] No abortion procedure requiring a clinic has been performed within the first four days, what you are referring to would be dealt with a morning-after pill like Plan B.



“Not when she is obviously pregnant and then decides that she doesn't want the child.”
It helps to be “obviously pregnant” before deciding to get an abortion. I can’t exactly walk in one day and ask for one to be performed on me. I agree with you. It always strikes me that the people in favor of abortion have already been born.



“Obviously as you can see here I am a little bit towards pro-life, but I still strongly believe that it is up to the mother, and if the father is there, to make to choice to have a child or not”
You are 99% pro-life, and now that you added another clause about the father’s input. You are about 99.5% pro-life, because you are even further depriving the woman of her supposed “right to choose.”


Conclusion
My opponent argues a pro-choice position, but believes that abortion is only permissible in the first two trimesters (6 months) in the case of rape or incest, pending the father’s input which makes her 99.5% pro-life, and forcing a Con-vote on this resultion. Thank you.



[1]http://abortionno.org......
[2] http://books.google.com......
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Contra 4 years ago
Contra
smithk96WallstreetatheistTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO forfeited multiple rounds