The Instigator
rfields23
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
1dustpelt
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
1dustpelt
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 980 times Debate No: 23327
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (4)

 

rfields23

Pro

please don't use the Bible as a source in the argument

I believe with the growing population and growing inequality gap we should openly accept abortion. As means to control the population and decrease orphans and government funded children we should accept abortion as means of population control.
1dustpelt

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
rfields23

Pro

I believe that abortion should be openly accepted.

There are many good things that can come from abortion and I believe that many socio-economic problems can be prevented with abortion because I believe overall the babies that are contemplated about being aborted would be drags on society anyway.

The population of the world is growing tremendously I would rather the world be full of planned babies than unintended drags on society
1dustpelt

Con

My opponent's only argument is that the world is overpopulated. Does that justify killing someone?

P1: A fetus is a human
P2: It is morally wrong to kill a human
C: Abortion is wrong

P1: A zygote, made at the moment of conception, already has the same attributes needed to be alive. It has metabolism, growth, reacts to stimulants, and reproduction cells. It has human DNA. A fetus is a homosapien, therefore they are a human.

P2: This ones kind of obvious, I hope you agree.

Conclusion: Abortion is killing a human, therefore it is wrong.

Sources
F. Beck, D. B. Moffat, and D. P. Davies, Human Embryology, Second edition
http://abortionfacts.com...

I await your response.
Debate Round No. 2
rfields23

Pro

I appreciate the format of your argument

A fetus is a human, but a fetus comes from a sperm and an egg , killing sperm isn't killing a human and neither is killing an egg homicide. Killing them separate isn't bad but killing them together is morally wrong?

Its morally wrong to kill a human? Says who? Under no circumstances would you kill another human being? If you would kill a human under certain circumstances, who concludes which circumstances you can kill a human in?
I say we can not say what is and what is not morally wrong.

I agree that abortion is indeed killing a human, but I am concluding that killing is not always wrong, therefore abortion is not always wrong.
1dustpelt

Con

My opponent has conceded that a fetus is a human.

"A fetus is a human, but a fetus comes from a sperm and an egg , killing sperm isn't killing a human and neither is killing an egg homicide. Killing them separate isn't bad but killing them together is morally wrong?"

"Day 1: Conception: Of the 200,000,000 sperm that try to penetrate the mother's egg cell, only one succeeds.2 At that very moment, a new and unique individual is formed. All of the inherited features of this new person are already set – whether it's a boy or girl, the color of the eyes, the color of the hair, the dimples of the cheeks and the cleft of the chin. He or she is smaller than a grain of sugar, but the instructions are present for all that this person will ever become.

The first cell soon divides in two. Each of these new cells divides again and again as they travel toward the womb in search of a protected place to grow.3

Day 6-14:The new individual at first attaches loosely to the wall of the womb, then burrows deeply and attaches securely to it over the next week. Sensitive pregnancy tests can now show positive, but this depends on the level of hormone produced by the new life. By the end of the second week, the mother's menstrual period is suppressed by this hormone (hCG) which is produced by her child.4

Day 17:Blood vessels begin to form.4 Remarkably, the future sex cells that will give rise to sperm or eggs for a new generation begin to group together - only 17 days after this new life is alive itself.5

Day 18-20:The foundations of the brain, spinal cord, and nervous system are laid.6

Day 21:The heart begins to beat,7 unsurely at first, gaining strength day by day. The heart beats 70 times per minute at first, reaching a maximum of 170-190 at seven weeks, and slowing a bit to 160-180 at 9 weeks.8 A day later the eyes begin to develop. The earliest stages of the ears are now present.9

Day 26-27:The lungs now begin to form.10

Day 28-32:Two tiny arms make their appearance and budding legs follow two days later.11 The beginnings of the mouth take shape.12 The nose starts to develop.13 The thyroid gland begins to grow. Blood flows in the baby's veins but stays separate from the mother's blood. The tongue now begins to form. The face now makes its first appearance.14

Day 36:The baby's eyes develop their first color in the retina (see photo above, right).15

Day 40:The baby makes her first reflex movements. Touching around the mouth with a fine bristle causes her to flex her neck.16

Day 41:The fingers begin to form, followed by the toes a few days later.17

Day 42:The baby develops nerve connections that will lead to a sense of smell. The brain is now divided into 3 parts – one to experience emotion and understand language, one for hearing and one for seeing. 18 Joints begin to form.19 Mother now misses second period.

Day 44:Buds of milk teeth appear. Facial muscles develop.20 Eyelids begin to form, protecting the developing eyes.21 Elbows take shape. Internal organs are present, but immature. 99% of muscles are present; each with its own nerve supply.22 Electrical activity is detectable in brain.23

Day 52:Spontaneous movement begins. The baby then develops a whole collection of moves over the next 4 weeks including hiccupping, frowning, squinting, furrowing the brow, pursing the lips, moving individual arms and legs, head turning, touching the face, breathing (without air), stretching, opening the mouth, yawning, and sucking.24

8 Weeks:The baby is now well-proportioned, and about the size of a thumb. Every organ is present. The liver is making blood, the kidneys function, and the heart beats steadily. The skull, elbows, and knees are forming. Of the 4500 structures in the adult body, 4000 are already present.25 The skeleton of the arms and legs and the spine begins to stiffen as bone cells are added."

Is it right to kill it? It is more than a sperm and an egg.

My opponent also says that we cannot define what is moral and that killing an innocent person can be moral. Suppose you are under gun point, what would you tell the one holding the gun to your head to try and convince him not to kill you ? My answer is the same. Besides, since you conceded a fetus is a human, abortion is basically killing someone for your own comfort when in most cases it was your fault you got pregnant.

Vote Pro because:
I have sources
I have proved that killing an innocent person is immoral
My opponent has conceded that a fetus is a human

http://abortionfacts.com...
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by YYW 4 years ago
YYW
That some consider the topic to be "important" is clear, and not what I was asking. If importance is, however, the impetus for popularity, why then is the topic important?
Posted by KeytarHero 4 years ago
KeytarHero
Why not? It's an important topic, one that can be argued through rational debate/discourse.
Posted by YYW 4 years ago
YYW
Someone tell me: Why the hell is this such a popular topic on DDO?
Posted by THEBOMB 4 years ago
THEBOMB
OberHerr, you can concede the point a fetus is a human and still argue for abortion. Bodily right's arguments, for example, concede the point that a fetus is human. (Even though Human =/= human being == person).
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
Ober, a fetus IS a human, the question is if it has the moral and philosophic equalities as a human.
Posted by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
10 min, is this guy going to post?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by KeytarHero 4 years ago
KeytarHero
rfields231dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I gave sources to Con because he had them. Sure, they may be biased, but any source you use to support your case will be biased, under most conditions. What matters is are the arguments strong enough. Once Pro conceded the unborn was a human, he did not offer enough justification for abortion. Con pointed out that killing a human is prima facie immoral (again, Pro didn't offer justification for aborting a "person").
Vote Placed by royalpaladin 4 years ago
royalpaladin
rfields231dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: My opponent also says that we cannot define what is moral and that killing an innocent person can be moral. Suppose you are under gun point, what would you tell the one holding the gun to your head to try and convince him not to kill you ? My answer is the same." This does not constitute proof that killing other people is wrong. Con fails to fulfill his burden of proof because in order for an action to be morally wrong, there has to be some reason that it is wrong. He doesn't prove it. Pro wi
Vote Placed by OberHerr 4 years ago
OberHerr
rfields231dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con blew away Pro's argument. As soon as you accept that a fetus is a human, you lose the debate if you are Pro-Abortion. Sources for Con actually having some.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
rfields231dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: new arguments last round = conduct. Poor sources (bias) vs no sources = tied. Although PROS arguments never where refuted, neither where cons, and con made some viable arguments, I want to devils advocate and debate con on this. His arguments where..... Need some work buddy!(PM me) Anyway, regardless, con wins. The rest of my rfd is: read the debate