The Instigator
Anonymity
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
superkamal26
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 680 times Debate No: 31099
Debate Rounds (5)
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Votes (0)

 

Anonymity

Con

Human life begins at conception. Hence, abortion infringes on the right that every human being has to life, and therefore should be illegal, the choice of the mother notwithstanding.
superkamal26

Pro

I accept your debate challenge. Let me rebut your arguments one by one.

Human life begins at conception
Human life does not begin at conception because when conception happens the life in the woman's body has no eyes, heart, brain, nose, lungs, etc. It is not a human because it doesn't have any body parts. The life has just cells. The definition of a human shows that human life does not begin at conception.
http://dictionary.reference.com...


Abortion infirnges on the right that every human being has to life
Although abortion infringes fetus's right to life, not every human has the right to life, In the constitution it states that people who have not been convicted of a crime have the right to life. It doesn't state that every human has the right to life. Fetuses don't have the right to life under the constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Abortion should be illegal:
One of the problems with making abortion illegal is that unwanted children have a good chance of becoming a criminal when they grow up so if the government bans abortion then there will be more crime in the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Another problem with banning abortion is that more women will have unsafe abortions and die if abortion becomes illegal. Those women that die from unsafe abortion could have gave birth to a child later on. Those women could have done something really good. Banning abortion does more harm than good.
http://thinkprogress.org...;
If the government bans abortion then pregnant women will have to have a child even if they don't want to. Women should have the right to have an abortion because the fetus is in their body so therefore the government should not dictate what they do with it. Many abortions happen because of an unwanted pregancy. If a woman gets pregant by accident then they should not be forced to have a child because taking care of a child is a lot of work and costs a lot of money. Most women don't put their child up for adoption so therefore abortion should be an option. Abortion should be completely legal and available for women so that they could have the right to do whats best for them.
Debate Round No. 1
Anonymity

Con

"Human life does not begin at conception because when conception happens the life in the woman's body has no eyes, heart, brain, nose, lungs, etc. It is not a human because it doesn't have any body parts. The life has just cells. The definition of a human shows that human life does not begin at conception."

First, we need to make sure we are defining human life correctly. I assert that what makes a thing a human being is its genetic makeup. Now, it is obvious that from the moment of conception, the zygote is genetically a human being. It does not have the genetic makeup of a horse, nor a dog, nor an insect, nor a tree. Yet it does have a genetic makeup. Even you admit that from the moment of conception we are dealing with a living thing: "The life has just cells." So if what is in the woman's womb is not a human being, what is it? Clearly it isn't the same entity as the mother, nor the father; it is a separate entity with the genetic makeup of a human being. Therefore, I conclude that from conception, it is a human being.

You claim that "the life in the woman's body has no eyes, heart, brain, nose, lungs, etc." But saying that the life is not human simply because it doesn't have what a human has is nonsensical. If it weren't a human, then it wouldn't naturally develop those things *that humans have* as time passed. Why does it develop into what looks like a human being if it is not human in nature? It must have the nature of a human in order to, of its own accord, become a human being. We see many things in the universe that develop over time, but just because they develop doesn't make them any less of what they are and always were. A male baby will develop into a man over time; is the baby somehow less human simply because it has not reached the same stage of development as the man? Of course not. Just because something is not fully developed does not make it different in nature from what it is going to be.

Let me pose this question: a woman who has conceived is called a mother, are they not? If so, then what are they the mother of?

"Although abortion infringes fetus's right to life, not every human has the right to life, In the constitution it states that people who have not been convicted of a crime have the right to life. It doesn't state that every human has the right to life. Fetuses don't have the right to life under the constitution."

You have a valid point; I was oversimplifying before. Nevertheless, given that "those who have not been convicted of a crime" have a right to life (i.e., those who are innocent), then *if* what is in the mother's womb is a human being, then it has the right to life because it is innocent.

"One of the problems with making abortion illegal is that unwanted children have a good chance of becoming a criminal when they grow up so if the government bans abortion then there will be more crime in the future."

By this logic, we might as well kill all human beings that are born in unstable family environments, because there's a good chance they are going to engage in criminal activity too. We cannot prevent one immoral activity by engaging in another.

"Another problem with banning abortion is that more women will have unsafe abortions and die if abortion becomes illegal. Those women that die from unsafe abortion could have gave birth to a child later on. Those women could have done something really good. Banning abortion does more harm than good."

That is their choice. Nobody is forcing them to get an abortion, and nobody forced them to have sex when they didn't want a child. We cannot determine what is right or wrong based on what people may or may not do as a result.

"Women should have the right to have an abortion because the fetus is in their body so therefore the government should not dictate what they do with it."

By this logic, suicide is not the business of the government either; it's their body after all, right? The fetus is in the body of the mother, but it is not the mother's body. Since the fetus is an innocent human being, he/she has the right to life. The desires of the mother are far inferior to the right of the fetus (of every innocent human being) to life. Nobody has any right to take away the rights of another, regardless of what they might want. Hence, if the fetus has a right to life, this argument is invalid.

"Many abortions happen because of an unwanted pregancy. If a woman gets pregant by accident then they should not be forced to have a child because taking care of a child is a lot of work and costs a lot of money. Most women don't put their child up for adoption so therefore abortion should be an option. Abortion should be completely legal and available for women so that they could have the right to do whats best for them."

Again, I offer the remedy of not having sex if you don't want to deal with the possible consequences of it. Everyone having sex knows the possibilities; they know it might result in new life. Once a human life begins, however, the desire to be free of the consequences of sex cannot be appeased without ending that innocent life. The right of an innocent human being to life is far superior to the right of a woman to do what's best for her.

The fundamental reason why I think abortion should be illegal is clear. Once the egg and the sperm fuse, new life is conceived. This life is fully human because it is genetically human. What's more is that the life is innocent. Every innocent human being has a right to life; therefore, what is inside the mother's womb has a right to life.
superkamal26

Pro

Human life begins at conception because the life in the woman's body has genetic makeup of a human
When conception happens the life in the woman's body does have genetic makeup of a human but it is techinically not a human because the defintion of humans is life with the characteritics of people. If you click on the Dictionary.com link I put in the last round it proves that human life does not begin at conception because of the definition of a human. No life becomes a plant or animal until it devoplops the characteristics of one. You stated that just because something is not fully develped does not make it different from what it is going to be. Well a baby is going to become an adult but it is not an adult while its one or two years old. Its going to be an adult once it turns at least 18. So your argument is invalid. Once a life develops it will become something else. A fetus will become a human when it has the characteristics of a human. You asked me if a woman who has concieved is called a mother and the answer is no. A mother is a woman who has children. Pregnant women don't have a new child until it is born. http://dictionary.reference.com...;

What is in the mother's womb has the right to life because it is innocent
Fetuses are innocent but they cannot be convicted of a crime. The fifth amendment in the constitution states the following:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
This has nothing to do with fetuses. This has to do with people who are accused of a crime. So fetuses don't have the right to life.

Unwanted children's chance of becoming criminals
In the last round I stated that banning abortion would cause there to be more criminals in the future because unwanted children have a good chance of becoming criminals. You stated that
By this logic, we might as well kill all human beings that are born in unstable family environments, because there's a good chance they are going to engage in criminal activity too. Well we should'nt do that because they're already born. It would be cruel to kill humans that are in unstable family enviroments. Killing fully born humans is cruel. Abortion is killing a fetus. Abortion can be done in a painless way. Abortion should be legal to prevent there from being more criminals in the future.

Women having abortions is there choice. Nobody is forcing them to get an abortion, and nobody forced them to have sex when they didn't want a child
You're right about that but the women that don't want to have children or cannot afford to have children have abortions. The women that have unsafe abortions could die. I never stated that abortion was right because of more women will have unsafe abortions. I stated that banning abortion will cause more women to die from unsafe abortions therefore it should be legal. If you care so much about human life than you should think about the consequnces of banning abortion. The point of banning abortion is to protect the life of fetuses but women's lives are more important so therefore if the government wants to protect important lives than they should keep abortion legal.

Women's right to choose what they will with their own body
You stated that by this logic, suicide is not the business of the government either; it's their body after all, well suicide is the government's business becuase the people who commit suicide die but suicide is legal. Like I said, The fetus that is in the woman's body does not have the right to life. The fetus is in the woman's body and is not born yet so therefore women should be allowed to abort it. The fetus doesn't know anything and doesn't have any feelings or desire. Most Humans that are fully born don't want to die so therefore it is cruel to kill them.

Unwanted pregancies and the consequnces of having sex
If a woman gets pregant by accident then she should not be forced to deal with a fetus in her stomach for 9 months and have a child. Pregnancies feel uncomfortable for women. Women should not have to feel discomfort and face the consequnces of having children just because of an accident. Accidents happen. Pregnant Women that don't want to have a child should be allowed to prevent themselves from having a child. The government should not force pregnant women to have children. Everyone should do whats best for themselves. Some women can't afford to take care of a child. People doing whats best for themsalves is very important.



Debate Round No. 2
Anonymity

Con

"When conception happens the life in the woman's body does have genetic makeup of a human but it is techinically not a human because the defintion of humans is life with the characteritics of people."

The zygote does have the characteristics of people in potentiality. It will develop those characteristics over time. You admitted that the zygote is a living entity, but you fail to specify what kind of a living thing it is. If it is not human, then what is it?

"Well a baby is going to become an adult but it is not an adult while its one or two years old."

Yes, but it's still human is it not? Regardless of what stage of development the human being is at, it is still a human being. What if it were born deformed, missing body parts that a human would normally have? Does that make it less human simply because it does not have everything a human normally has?

When did *you* come into existence? Was it as soon as all of your body parts existed or was it before that?

The link you provide to "dictionary.com" does not provide the definition for human that you assert. You have conveniently inserted your own definition. Among the definitions I see are "a human being." That's it.

"You asked me if a woman who has concieved is called a mother and the answer is no. A mother is a woman who has children. Pregnant women don't have a new child until it is born."

That's an assumption. You have yet to prove that a child is not a child until it is born.

"Fetuses are innocent but they cannot be convicted of a crime."

The fifth amendment doesn't anywhere state that "if you cannot be convicted of a crime then you don't have the right to life." Such would be nonsense, considering children aged 0-6 cannot be convicted of crimes yet they certainly have the right to life.

"Well we should'nt do that because they're already born. It would be cruel to kill humans that are in unstable family enviroments. Killing fully born humans is cruel. Abortion is killing a fetus. Abortion can be done in a painless way. Abortion should be legal to prevent there from being more criminals in the future."

Then you are resorting to a different reason to support abortion, not the notion that we will have less crime. The point is, the argument that abortion should be allowed because it lowers crime is silly when you consider that many other things (like killing young people) could also lower crime. Let's be honest; lowering crime is not the reason why you think it's okay to kill the fetus. The reason you think it's okay to kill the fetus is because you don't think it is a human being.

"I stated that banning abortion will cause more women to die from unsafe abortions therefore it should be legal."

This presupposes that the life inside the woman is not a human being. If it were a human being, then the best way to prevent death from happening is to ban abortion.

"The point of banning abortion is to protect the life of fetuses but women's lives are more important so therefore if the government wants to protect important lives than they should keep abortion legal."

If the fetus is a human being, then life of the woman is not more important. No human life is more important than the life of any other human.

"Most Humans that are fully born don't want to die so therefore it is cruel to kill them."

If the fetus knew what death was, it would not want to die.

"If a woman gets pregant by accident then she should not be forced to deal with a fetus in her stomach for 9 months and have a child. Pregnancies feel uncomfortable for women. Women should not have to feel discomfort and face the consequnces of having children just because of an accident. Accidents happen. Pregnant Women that don't want to have a child should be allowed to prevent themselves from having a child. The government should not force pregnant women to have children. Everyone should do whats best for themselves. Some women can't afford to take care of a child. People doing whats best for themsalves is very important. "

First of all, the fetus is not within the "stomach" of the mother. Secondly, the discomfort of the mother is inferior to the right of a human being to life. It all comes back down to this one issue. I think that is the issue we need to press each other on.
superkamal26

Pro

superkamal26 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Anonymity

Con

Anonymity forfeited this round.
superkamal26

Pro

superkamal26 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Anonymity

Con

Anonymity forfeited this round.
superkamal26

Pro

superkamal26 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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