The Instigator
Mr.Moves3
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
GDawg
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
GDawg
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/3/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 631 times Debate No: 38455
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Mr.Moves3

Con

Hello, let's have a talk about abortion. In your profile, it says that you're for abortion.
Let me start by saying ABORTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. Abortion is murder and it's a very immoral thing to do. People that aborts are morons and brutal people. How could a person reject their baby. It's also very unprofessional for the doctors that perform abortions.
GDawg

Pro

1. I will accept this challenge, and wish a good debate between us. I will start off with a short argument, and will refute the points you addressed. Abortion is no more murder than using antibacterial soap. This no more than killing millions of sperm when you masturbate. It is the murder of a fetus, which is subjected to a lower class level than things that are really alive and functioning.
2. It is immoral to deny a women her reproductive rights simply because of our early male dominated society, in which men would have absolute control over the woman. That is changing, and as a result, women are now given second chances and opportunities to be, or not to be a mother.
3. I do not understand how a woman who aborts a baby is considered brutal. They are not hysterically laughing as they poke the small fetus with a knife. The vast majority of women were raped, didn't use good judgement, or could not support the baby. "According to Guttmacher data, the abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level is more than four times higher that among women from middle-income and affluent households." The statistics closely represent the idea of the good intentions the women had. Many women were forced as their only way of income, or some might not be able to support the baby. So someone could reject their upcoming baby, as it is not always an amazing gift, but merely the inability to raise that upcoming child into a good life.
4. I believe the abortion that takes place is very professional, and is not this brutal process you are exclaiming. http://www.nbcnews.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Mr.Moves3

Con

Sorry for the delay. On #1, you stated that killing of a fetus is a "lower class level than things that are really alive and functioning." Correct? I believe that's your own opinion.

Now, On #2 you said that it's immoral to deny a woman her reproductive rights. But do you know exactly what the woman's reproductive rights are? Also, you mentioned that males dominated society, can you clarify what's your point/argument about that?

You said that the vast majority of women that chose to abort their child were victims of rape, etc...
-Only 1% of all women that aborted their child are victims of rape.
- About " can't support the child
-3/4 said the child would be an interfere to work
- " are because of bad decisions
I believe that those reasons aren't enough to abort their child. I strongly disagree that abortion is the best option to escape from the problems above. If a woman can not support the baby, then why would they have sex in the first place. Abortion is not the best option, if the woman/parents can't support the baby, they could give the baby to someone else that would love to have a baby. They could also give the baby for adoption. The woman can then visit the baby from time to time. Then when the baby is grown and the woman earned enough money, she can get her baby back. Instead of killing an innocent fetus that is already living- only waiting for him/her to be born. Just like what my wise teacher always said, "think outside of the box."

I understand that there are women that can't support their child/ their upcoming baby due to a very low income or very low financial status. But do you really think that rejecting (killing) the baby is the best option to do? Don't you think it's selfish to not give the baby a chance to see the world?

Let me clarify something, I wasn't ranting/exclaiming. What I really meant when I said "it's very unprofessional for the doctors that perform abortions" is the brutality of rejecting/killing the baby itself. I believe that the doctor's job is to try their best to help people not to die-- it's not their job to kill. When I used the word "brutal," I'm aware that they're not "hysterically laughing as they poke the small fetus with a knife" as you stated. I used the word "brutal" to describe the abortion itself, and not the process of doing it. And since when did killing, became a "very professional" process? So, of course I would describe it as "very unprofessional."

Also, there are complications for some mothers due to Legal Induced Abortions, such as the 12 deaths of women in 2008.
The thing is people seems to always reject the reality of the world.

Statistics:
-25% of all U.S. Pregnancies end in abortion. Do you realize how much babies those are?
-1.2 Million babies die every year from abortion
-50% of U.S. Women obtaining abortions are younger than 25
-most of the 50% are teenagers that aren't ready to have a baby, and who's fault would that be? The innocent baby that died or the parents that didn't have a careful sex or family planning?
-Keep in mind that only 1 percent of abortions are from rape victims

www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
GDawg

Pro

#1 By saying that this was just my opinion, you seem to display you're on the other side. By saying that all living things are the same, you must be a vegan, against every war, against masturbation, against the death penalty, antibacterial soap, bug killing, experimental testing on animals etc. This is not opinion, unless you agree with all of the above. A fetus does not have the same rights as a human being, unless you think that all living things should have the exact same rights.
#2 I stated that we have had a male dominated society where women did not have a say in becoming a mother. You seem to believe that a fetus has more rights over a woman, which further explains why you believe all living things have the same rights; that is not a good philosophy.

You state that being raped or forced sex trafficking is not enough to about a child, which is absolutely ludicrous. You fail to see the reason why people want abortion; It's for unplanned pregnancies, not a planned child. You say that in your statistics that 50% of the people getting abortions are under 25, and mostly teenagers. Please tell me why a simple mistake by a women such as, condom broke, wasn't thinking, or thought that he was the one,should result in her having her life destroyed?

Like I previously cited, "According to Guttmacher data, the abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level is more than four times higher that among women from middle-income and affluent households." A lot of these women were sex trafficked due to the low poverty rate, and "According to the CIA, more than one million people are currently being trafficked within the United States and that number is growing. Estimates by the U.S. State Department suggest that up to an additional 17,500 trafficking victims are brought into the US every year." An astonishing number of women are forced into the sex trafficking industry, which is 85% women. So as you can see, these are not planned pregnancies, and do not warrant punishment for a simple mistake, forgetting many women get pregnant from sex trafficking.

You then mention adoption which, in two ways, a bad idea." In the U.S. 400,540 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system." In your statistics you cite the number of deaths that result from abortion. Do you think 1.2 million kids being added to broken foster care homes every year, is a good idea? Not to mention the high increase in taxes for the high cost of welfare for the kid. The second problem would be the increase in crime in adoption. Lack of education, nutrition, parents who care has raised the crime rate. "We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime." Evidence has been presented to conclude the sensible claim that, parents who don't care will drive their children to gangs and crime. These women who don't care, won't go get their baby back because they originally didn't want it. This is besides the idea that every woman will get out of poverty to support their baby.

"I understand that there are women that can't support their child/ their upcoming baby due to a very low income or very low financial status. But do you really think that rejecting (killing) the baby is the best option to do? Don't you think it's selfish to not give the baby a chance to see the world?" You answered your own question. Since most women won't be able to support the child, the child will not live a good life, but rather a life of murder, disease, malnourishment, and crime.
I kind of comprehend why you might think rejecting a baby into the world is brutal, but you need to look at the context. The extreme majority dictates that the baby will not be able to have a good life, and will not have a mother who cares. I still stand on the side of it being a *very professional process because, if it wasn't professional, nobody would need to go to a professional to get it done. Hence, it is a professional process. Back-ally abortions that end up killing the mother, should give you evidence that no random Joe can just do it.

I have stated why women should have the right to have a baby if they wanted too, and why something that is a "life" shouldn't trump the women's reproductive rights. I have refuted the philosophy of "If it's a life, it has the rights of every other life". I have also stated the chaos that would commence if we forced the babies into adoption. I have also stated that mistakes, sex trafficking, unwanted incidences should not ruin a woman's life just to let a malnourished child see the gang ridden streets. I have stated how crime would certainly go up with all the unwanted children. I have also refuted your argument of abortion being an "unprofessional process", and showed how it helps women daily by displaying all of the problems the child would have if he/she would have not been aborted. Your turn, my opponent.
Debate Round No. 2
Mr.Moves3

Con

Mr.Moves3 forfeited this round.
GDawg

Pro

I put my round 2 sources in the comments. I was just being forgetful.

Con did not refute any of my arguments, and I refuted all of his with statistics. Con did not show how an abortion is "unprofessional", nor a brutal murder. I did present a case showing the detrimental effects on children and mothers when they cannot abort an unwanted pregnancy. None of this has been refuted. Vote Pro!
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by GDawg 3 years ago
GDawg
http://www.ccainstitute.org... http://ywca-sv.org...
I apologize for not presenting my sources in the debate rounds, I was forgetful.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
yet another man ranting about that which he knows not.

Abortion is the better of bad choices.

If you do not want women to end unwanted pregnancies,
take the women into your home and pay for every thing or shut up.

Forcing women to have children is a path to horrible childhoods
and scarred adults and a stupid idea
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Skeptikitten 3 years ago
Skeptikitten
Mr.Moves3GDawgTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit in final round. Arguments to Pro, as Con just stated his opinions without any supporting evidence and never refuted Pro. Grammar and spelling on Con's part was very poor. Conduct to Pro as Con resorted to cheap name calling in his opening statement.
Vote Placed by 2-D 3 years ago
2-D
Mr.Moves3GDawgTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF