The Instigator
twheel85
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Stonewall
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Stonewall
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 804 times Debate No: 41583
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

twheel85

Con

Abortion is murder and should be illegal. The human embryo has a separate DNA from the mother. At conception the embryo has genetic code which determines everything from eye color to personality. It is not a mothers right to choose to kill her own child because it is not her body.
Stonewall

Pro

Thank you for the opportunity to debate this topic.

"Abortion is murder and should be illegal."

First of all, saying abortion is murder is somewhat debatable. Murder is defined as, "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." The definition of human being is, "a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance." (1, 2) By those definitions, abortion is not, strictly speaking, murder at all, as a fetus has none of the characteristics of a quote-unquote human being.

"The human embryo has a separate DNA from the mother. At conception the embryo has genetic code which determines everything from eye color to personality."

Seperate DNA does not equate to anything. A cancerous tumor has separate DNA from its host. Is a woman obligated to leave it to grow and potentially kill her? Of course not. This point in itself does not make a case for the pro-life argument.

"It is not a mothers [sic] right to choose to kill her own child because it is not her body."

But it is a part of her body. This goes back to that whole cancerous tumor thing. Fetuses can and do cause harm to the mother. Should the woman be forced to potentially die due to a a fetus? And what if the child will face some sort of debilitating disease? No human being should be subjected to a life of pain, either.

___


Whether you're against just abortions that aren't for health reasons or all abortions, there's plenty of reasons why abortions should be legalized.

First of all, keeping abortion legal keeps illicit back-alley abortions off the street. These are insanely dangerous for both the mother and the child. Abortion also keeps our rising population rates under control.

Another aspect of abortion I think is important is the ability to raise the child in the first place. How many people have babies they can't afford or care for? These babies grow up in a world where they are kept behind by economic, personal, and emotional factors. They are essentially kept to a life of disappointment and frustration, all due to the mother being forced to have a child. Is this fair to the child to be damned to such a lifetime? Of course not.

I have many more points to make, but I'll wait for your response so I can guide my responses more easily. I look forward to our next round.

1. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
2. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
Debate Round No. 1
twheel85

Con

"abortion is murder and should be illegal"
Your claim is that it is a human if it has "superior development, power of articulate speech and upright stance." What about an infant or a child who has not learned to talk, and walk yet. Are they not yet a human being? According to you then when is something a human being?

"The human embryo has a separate DNA from the mother. At conception the embryo has genetic code which determines everything from eye color to personality."
Cancer is damaged DNA. An embryo is not damaged DNA but separate DNA half from the father and half from the mother.

"It is not a mothers right to choose to kill her own child because it is not her body."
The embryo is not part of her body. It is separate from her body because it is a living human being. Unlike Cancerous cells which are just damaged cells.

"First of all, keeping abortion legal keeps illicit back-alley abortions off the street. These are insanely dangerous for both the mother and the child. Abortion also keeps our rising population rates under control."

Why does it matter if its dangerous for the child if the child is going to be killed anyone in the abortion? Secondly here you admit that it is a child? We shouldn't legalize (or keep legal) something that is murder just so it will be safer. Also the United States fertility rate is at 1.9 children per women which is below replacement level.

Should we not at least give the child life though. By killing the child before he or she is born does not give the person a chance at a happy life because they are dead. We determine our own happiness. Yes it may be rough for a child in a single mother household or who has been adopted but in the end they are responsible for there happiness but killing them takes away this. "

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."

Sources
1.http://www.cancer.org...
2.http://data.worldbank.org...
Stonewall

Pro

"What about an infant or a child who has not learned to talk, and walk yet. Are they not yet a human being? According to you then when is something a human being?"

An infant does have superior development. Incredibly intricate design and functions from even just a newborn. Considering most abortions are in the first trimester, it's fair to compare the essentially full human being that is a newborn with a fetus in the first three months. The latter is, at most, three inches, has stubs with the slight formations of digits, and the beginnings of vital organs (1). It's an undoubtedly fascinating development, but by no means a superior one.

"An embryo is not damaged DNA but separate DNA half from the father and half from the mother."

Fine, but my point remains that different DNA does not make an entirely unique human being. One, every single sperm has separate DNA, but this doesn't mean there's millions of deaths every time a man has a wet dream. Second, DNA isn't even a living thing. Even if we're going with cells instead, this still doesn't make it any more of a life. When someone dies, do you worry about their hair cells dying? Or the cells in their toenails? Of course not. Even fertilized eggs get flushed out half the time. Do you mourn the deaths of these almost-people? That's not a rhetorical question; do you seriously mourn the death of fertilized eggs that don't implant? By your logic, you should be as sad about this as you would a miscarriage or an abortion.

"The embryo is not part of her body. It is separate from her body because it is a living human being."

Are you joking? An embryo is not separate; it's entirely connected. It's connected to a woman for nine months, otherwise it (typically) dies. An embryo is an extension of her body as much as her fingernail is. If you disconnect that fingernail, it's going to wither and die, just like an embryo. That doesn't make the fingernail a human being by a long shot.

"Why does it matter if its dangerous for the child if the child is going to be killed anyone [sic] in the abortion?"

You can't be serious. Did you miss the part where I said it's dangerous for the mother? Unlike how a fetus needs nitpicked definitions to be considered living, the mother, without debate, has a life, real experience, memories, and superior development. Try to think of this objectively for a second-- one is entirely a human being, no question, and the other needs whole debates to arrive at a muddled conclusion. Even from a pro-life perspective, one has to know that one is more human than the other.

"Secondly here you admit that it is a child?"

Hardly. It's just more understandable to say "child" than "fetus", as a fetus is just a child in the making.

"Also the United States fertility rate is at 1.9 children per women which is below replacement level."

But fertility rates don't factor in abortions, do they? Abortions keep our population under control. Without debate (2). Can you imagine if we had 1.3 billion more people worldwide? If you think poverty and starvation rates are high now, they'd be mind-boggling if we had 1.3 billion more people. Abortion is doing us a favor (3).

"Should we not at least give the child life though. By killing the child before he or she is born does not give the person a chance at a happy life because they are dead."

Okay, let's think of fetuses in terms of people. If we had 1.3 billion more people in this world right now, this would be detrimental for humanity as a whole. This is a matter of seeing the forest through the trees: The human race, as we know it, would be much worse off. Poverty, starvation, economics, overpopulation, too many people falling behind and no one getting ahead. Yes, an individual's happiness is what they make it, but there's only so much you can do in a world of almost 10 billion people trying to get ahead too. Our world is actually heading in this direction, but now we have time to develop a system to control it by perhaps inhabiting another planet. We don't have much time, but abortion has bought us the time we need. Not to mention how many cases of abuse all of these originally unwanted children would face. You hear these success stories about people who overcame circumstance to achieve a decent life and do speeches around the country, but untold millions went nowhere and lead absolutely terrible lives not only because of their home life, but because so many people trying to get ahead will inevitably get people behind. I wish this was just a pessimistic view, but it's not. It's real, and you can see it on every street corner in New York City. Making abortion illegal would make that far, far, worse, and that is without a shadow of a doubt.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

Remember, at the time, slavery was not only legal, but accepted. Obviously, words can be misinterpreted and changed over a couple of centuries.

I look forward to your response.

1. http://www.webmd.com...
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
3. http://www.numberofabortions.com...
Debate Round No. 2
twheel85

Con

twheel85 forfeited this round.
Stonewall

Pro

I don't feel like posting any last thoughts. Vote for whoever made the better argument.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
A fetus's DNA is absolutely unique from it's mother. It is not apart of her body... Con, read the UNUDHR. Article II, VI, and III

http://www.un.org...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by AndrewB686 2 years ago
AndrewB686
twheel85StonewallTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was better organized and presented his arguments and rebuttals more effectively and coherently than con. Pro avoided the logical fallacies and irrational conclusions to win arguments and ordered and spaced these arguments in order to make them legible and easier to read, thus pro wins the debate.