The Instigator
KaylaCasey
Con (against)
Tied
5 Points
The Contender
purpleduck
Pro (for)
Tied
5 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 509 times Debate No: 67872
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

KaylaCasey

Con

First round is acceptance
purpleduck

Pro

I accept this debate and will be arguing for abortion.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
KaylaCasey

Con

Abortion (Con)


When you take the life of an unborn child you are taking that child's opportunity to succeed in life. You are taking their right as an American to live and to be free. Think about it, did you give that child a chance? Is it your fault that you had unprotected sex, and that child had no say in you taking THEIR life not yours. Step up for the mistake you made and raise your child to the best of your ability.

You could possibly be carrying the person who could cure cancer, the future president, but most importantly you are caring your son or daughter. This child had no say in whether you had sex or not. As soon as you start having sex you are taking the risk of possible becoming pregnant. If you are not ready for that responsibility then you should not be having sex! When you take that child's life they didn't have a say in that life changing decision.
purpleduck

Pro

Sirenomella, also known as Mermaid Syndrome, is a rare birth defect where the child is born with his/her legs fused together, much like a mermaid. This defect also results in the absence or abnormality of several major organs, most notably the kidneys and the bladder. Life expectancy is 1 to 2 days due to organ complications and failure.

Spina Bifida is a neural tube defect that occurs when the spinal column does not close completely during the first month of pregnancy. Spina Bifida is different for everybody. Symptoms may include partial to full paralysis, difficulty controlling the bowel and bladder, learning disabilities, latex allergies, depression, and social/sexual interaction problems. At worst, the brain cavity fills up with fluid which must be drained over and over again through constant surgery.

Progeria is a rare, fatal, birth defect that appears to accelerate aging in children. As such, symptoms begin appearing at 18 to 24 months of age and include growth failure, body fat loss, hair loss, hip dislocation, aged looking skin, stiffness of joints, cardiovascular disease, and stroke. Death occurs in between 8 to 21 years of age.

Cerebral Palsy is a defect in the area in the brain that controls movement, and as such the baby cannot move normally. Symptoms of cerebral palsy vary as there are different types, but there are three major types which are Spastic Cerebral Palsy, which stiffens all the muscles which makes movement difficult and in severe cases mentally retards the child, Athetoid Cerebral Palsy, which causes fluctuations in muscle tone ranging from too loose to too stiff, and Axaxic Cerebral Palsy, which makes it difficult for the patient to balance and coordinate his/her muscles, making basic activities such as walking and writing extremely difficult.

Down syndrome is a birth defect that occurs when an error occurs during cell division that involves chromosome 21. Other than the superficial effects of Down syndrome, symptoms include congenital heart disease, hearing problems, intestine/bowel problems, eye problems, thyroid dysfunctionality, skeletal problems, dementia, and increased susceptibility to infectious diseases such as pneumonia.

Let's put aside birth defects and diseases for now.

51% of pregnancies in America are unintended or mistimed. Approximately 3 in 10 will result in abortion. If abortion is banned, that number will drop to a least 0. These are the consequences of these kinds of births.
1. The family will have too many kids and may be unable to support the child
2. Fewer educational opportunities and development opportunities for the woman
3. Abandonment or adoption
4. Undernourished children
5. Higher infant susceptibility to disease
6. Less treatment for diseases
7. Less breastfeeding
8. Higher infant mortality
9. If the mother acquired an STD as well as pregnancy, when the baby is conceived the disease will be passed down to the baby
10. Child abuse
11. Depression of mother during and after pregnancy
12. Higher chance of death of mother during labor

These are the facts. Now lets look at Con's arguments.

"Is it your fault that you had unprotected sex, and that child had no say in you taking THEIR life not yours. Step up for the mistake you made and raise your child to the best of your ability."

Well the thing is, the child is not technically alive yet. But since that is a controversial point, I will put that aside. Assuming that the fetus is considered to be a person starting from ovulation (not protected by US law for the sake of this argument), consider the type of life that person would live when he/she is conceived. It's really not that hard, you just have to look at the information written above. In fact, ignore the diseases for now, just look at the list of effects of unintended births. Do you really want a child to live a life where any of those things could have a high possibility of happening simply because you have some sort of agenda or need for every child to be born?

There are only four birth defects written above, however, there are some thousands upon thousands of other birth defects. I have barely even scratched the surface. But lets just work with those four above. If you knew your child was definitely going to be born with one of those diseases, would you abort, or let it suffer the full and unabridged agony of the disease simply because "You could possibly be carrying the person who could cure cancer or the future president". The two things honestly have an extremely small chance of occurring and is an extremely risky and frankly sadistic gamble to take. If your reason for giving birth to a child is for this reasons, I honestly have nothing to say.

And believe it or not, someone's best ability in terms of raising a child can actually be pretty bad. Veeeerrrrry bad.

"As soon as you start having sex you are taking the risk of possible becoming pregnant. If you are not ready for that responsibility then you should not be having sex!"

AMEN. However, if a girl so happens to get pregnant when she is not ready for a child, forcing her to have one anyway opens a pretty damn big can of worms, as it not only affects the life and mental health of the girl, but also negatively affects the child in many different ways. Part of owning up for a mistake is fixing it, and attempting to take care of a baby when you KNOW you are not ready for one is definitely not fixing, but amplifying the mistake. For proof of this, just look at the information above one more time.

One last point, this child is not your child, and quite frankly, it's none of your business what a woman does with her unwanted or disease ridden fetus. Keep this option open for women who want it, because by banning it simply because you don't like it uses the same logic as me banning bacon for everybody forever simply because I don't enjoy it.
Debate Round No. 2
KaylaCasey

Con

KaylaCasey forfeited this round.
purpleduck

Pro

Until my opponent decides to post an argument, I will not make any more myself.
Debate Round No. 3
KaylaCasey

Con


Progeria is a rare, fatal, birth defect that appears to accelerate aging in children. As such, symptoms begin appearing at 18 to 24 months of age and include growth failure, body fat loss, hair loss, hip dislocation, aged looking skin, stiffness of joints, cardiovascular disease, and stroke. Death occurs in between 8 to 21 years of age.

Progeria like you said is rare so rare that it only occurs in 1 newborn of 4 - 8 million newborns. This birth defect is NOT detectable in a sonogram it only begins to appear in the child’s first 18 to 24 months. If the parent already has progeria the rate rises to 2-3% of the child obtaining this birth defect, in this scenario testing is available to see if the birth defect has been passed down

Down syndrome is a birth defect that occurs when an error occurs during cell division that involves chromosome 21. Other than the superficial effects of Down syndrome, symptoms include congenital heart disease, hearing problems, intestine/bowel problems, eye problems, thyroid dysfunctional, skeletal problems, dementia, and increased susceptibility to infectious diseases such as pneumonia.

On the topic of downs syndrome I happen to know many children born with downs syndrome. These kids are some of the sweetest and most kind kids there are. Now days kids with downs syndrome have the opportunity to go to college and live as normal as a life as possible. And I would also like to say that if I was expecting a child and found out they had downs syndrome I sure as hell would not abort them because they were different. I would not abort my child if they had any of the birth defects you listed or any other birth defect for a matter of fact. God has a plan for every single child that lives here on earth some of these plans are shorter than others but sure as heck would not take the opportunity away from them to live out Gods plan!

1. The family will have too many kids and may be unable to support the child

If the family didn’t want another child they should have taken the precautionary measures to insure they did not have another child.

1. Tubes tide after the previous child

2. Birth control

3. Condom


2. Fewer educational opportunities and development opportunities for the woman

Like I said in round 2 if the woman didn’t want a child she should not have had sex in the first place and if she just wanted to have sex she should have used contraceptives to prevent the pregnancy

3. Abandonment or adoption

I have an amazing friend who was abandoned and adopted. She is one of the best people I know. And if you think adoption is a bad thing you are mistaken there are millions of women who cant have children who want children that would love and care for them.

Well the thing is, the child is not technically alive yet. But since that is a controversial point, I will put that aside. Assuming that the fetus is considered to be a person starting from ovulation (not protected by US law for the sake of this argument), consider the type of life that person would live when he/she is conceived. It's really not that hard, you just have to look at the information written above. In fact, ignore

“If you knew your child was definitely going to be born with one of those diseases

It is NOT called suffering, its called giving them a chance to live.



Here I have listed only a few of the many story’s I have found about kids with birth defects living a life filled with loved weather it was only for a few hours or for a long happy life.



Spina Bifida






Sirenomelia






In this story they said “Each moment of his precious life was cherished from the first positive pregnancy test to his last breath.” Weather he would have lived on sadly he didn’t he was still loved and will be loved forever.



Down syndrome






“Noah’s Birth Story: How Down Syndrome Changed Our Lives…For The Better” does this story say it was the worst thing that ever happened to me…… no it says for “for the better” this child did not suffer. This was hard for them at first but they realized that this changed the life for the better!



And believe it or not, someone's best ability in terms of raising a child can actually be pretty bad. Veeeerrrrry bad.



But that woman who aborted her baby will never know what the best of her abilities are until she try’s.

“However, if a girl so happens to get pregnant when she is not ready for a child, forcing her to have one anyway opens a pretty damn big can of worms, as it not only affects the life and mental health of thegirl, but also negatively affects the child in many different ways. Part of owning up for a mistake is fixing it, and attempting to take care of a baby when you KNOW you are not ready for one is definitely not fixing, but amplifying the mistake.





Based off of what you just said I FORCED her to have sex. But for a matter of fact that was her decision to have sex, not mine, not yours, and not anybody else’s. When you get an abortion you are NOT TAKING CARE of the baby. You are getting rid of your problems instead of owning up to your mistake you made!



One last point, this child is not your child, and quite frankly, it's none of your business what a woman does with her unwanted or disease ridden fetus. Keep this option open for women who want it, because by banning it simply because you don't like it uses the same logic as me banning bacon for everybody forever simply because I don't enjoy it.



But when you keep allowing women to have abortions its like telling the world “Oh you just made a LITTLE mistake, don’t worry about it”



When in all reality you should be telling them “own up to your mistakes, have the child, keep it or put him/ her up for adoption and move on”



I will leave you with this......Would you really take your childs life just because they were different?
purpleduck

Pro

"Progeria like you said is rare so rare that it only occurs in 1 newborn of 4 - 8 million newborns. This birth defect is NOT detectable in a sonogram it only begins to appear in the child’s first 18 to 24 months. If the parent already has progeria the rate rises to 2-3% of the child obtaining this birth defect, in this scenario testing is available to see if the birth defect has been passed down"

It really doesn't matter how rare it is, just because very few kids actually get it doesn't mean you can completely cut it off. For example, Company A submits a certain drug. Because only 5% of people would actually need that drug to survive, the drug does not pass FDA inspection. The bottom line here is that it doesn't matter how few people get the disease, at least leave all the options open for them instead of labeling them as "not worth it".
Also, since progeria is a genetic mutation, it can technically be tested pre-birth through blood or fluid samples of the fetus.

"On the topic of downs syndrome I happen to know many children born with downs syndrome. These kids are some of the sweetest and most kind kids there are. "

I am really not impressed with anecdotes especially in scientific discussions because it honestly tells me very little. It does, however, tell me that my opponent likes to over-generalize based on personal experience, which is never a good thing. I couldn't care less how sweet or kind they are, these kids are in a variety of pain. The disease makes it very difficult to function normally in both personal and social situations, and also makes them more susceptible to serious diseases. Just because they are sweet and kind doesn't mean that their disease isn't bogging them down and making their life harder than it needs to be.

"God has a plan for every single child that lives here on earth some of these plans are shorter than others but sure as heck would not take the opportunity away from them to live out Gods plan!"

How do you know God's plan, or even if he has one. Did He tell you? I really doubt you're such an interesting person that a so-called timeless, spaceless, omnipresent, all powerful deity would take the time to have make small talk with you in particular.

"If the family didn’t want another child they should have taken the precautionary measures to insure they did not have another child.
1. Tubes tide after the previous child
2. Birth control
3. Condom"

Not everyone is as smart or wise as you are. A lot of people are also against the three options you have suggested, so they sure as hell won't be using them.

"Like I said in round 2 if the woman didn’t want a child she should not have had sex in the first place and if she just wanted to have sex she should have used contraceptives to prevent the pregnancy"

Again, not everyone is as wise as you are. If you want to go on a crusade to educate the ignorant public on the use of contraceptives, be my guest, but until then, this argument is invalid.

"I have an amazing friend who was abandoned and adopted. She is one of the best people I know. And if you think adoption is a bad thing you are mistaken there are millions of women who cant have children who want children that would love and care for them."

Unimpressive anecdote is unimpressive. You can't possibly know what she has been through or how she feels about it. I am not against adoption, but not all adopters are as loving and caring as you may think they are.

"It is NOT called suffering, its called giving them a chance to live."

I take it you also don't want cancer-ridden patients to be given the choice to take their own life because "It is NOT called suffering, its called giving them a chance to live." These diseases, if not VERY painful, are VERY obstructive to the patient's daily life. This is definitely called suffering.

And then my opponent links a bunch of stories of genetically mutated babies who were supposedly very happy. At least, their parents were. Again, anecdotes are unimpressive because they tell me next to nothing about anything.

"But that woman who aborted her baby will never know what the best of her abilities are until she try’s."

This is like saying "I've never jumped off a cliff before, so I might as well try and see what happens." or, "I've never taken care of 10 cats at a time before, hell, I can't even take care of myself, but you know, I might as well try." Most people have the capacity to predict the consequences of something even if they have never done it before. For example, I'm pretty sure a pot-head, homeless, gang-affiliated prostitute who lives in a wooden shack and can only eat one meal day knows beyond a doubt that she does not have the capacity to raise a child, should she realize that she is pregnant one day.

"Based off of what you just said I FORCED her to have sex. But for a matter of fact that was her decision to have sex, not mine, not yours, and not anybody else’s. When you get an abortion you are NOT TAKING CARE of the baby. You are getting rid of your problems instead of owning up to your mistake you made!"

This is an incredible example of shifting blame onto the woman. You should also read my argument one more time. I said the woman was forced to have sex. Having sex and becoming pregnant are two different issues. And based on your logic, if I accidentally adopt 20 dogs, I should keep all of them, because giving them up would be irresponsible.

"But when you keep allowing women to have abortions its like telling the world “Oh you just made a LITTLE mistake, don’t worry about it

When in all reality you should be telling them “own up to your mistakes, have the child, keep it or put him/ her up for adoption and move on

I will leave you with this......Would you really take your child's life just because they were different?"

This is some really strange logic. How is conceiving a baby you KNOW you are not ready for owning up to anything. You act as if these children are like pets, they can either be kept or given away. Do you not realize that children also have complex emotional responses to their situation? It's not as if taking care of a child is easy, even experienced parents and those who are ready for a child have a hard time taking care of one. Taking on an the challenge of raising a child when you know you are not ready is not only selfish but also completely foolish. Doing this solves absolutely nothing, all it does is compound the problem.

And no, I would not have my child aborted if they were different, because after all, all children are different. Hell, all people are different. However, if my child was to be born disease ridden or when I am not ready for one, I would definitely abort, as refraining from doing so is extremely selfish. I may love my child with all my heart, but my child would be in pain, physically or mentally. If I truly loved my child, I would not subject him/her to that kind of suffering just so I can get off a few years of happiness or experiment whether or not I am ready for a child.

I will close with a quote from one of Aesop's fables, which I think perfectly emphasizes my point:

"Give assistance, not advice, in a crisis"

Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Overkill 1 year ago
Overkill
KaylaCaseypurpleduckTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: While Con forfeited, Pro did not bother to provide any links or articles (though burden of proof was never established). Con's arguments consisted of anecdotes whereas Pro structured away from emotional influence and built a case out of documented results (though failing to provide said documents).
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
KaylaCaseypurpleduckTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Com ff a round, so conduct to Pro. I did not find Pro's arguments compelling. Killing an innocent human life because she is sick is not logical. Also, Pro's claims that the unborn are not alive is mot accurate. With that in mind, arguments to Con.