The Instigator
SlamminSam212
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Common_Sense_Please
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Common_Sense_Please
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/18/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 998 times Debate No: 8685
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (5)

 

SlamminSam212

Con

You can have the opening argument.
Common_Sense_Please

Pro

Thanks for the challenge :)

First of all, the topic is a bit ambiguous. Is it just whether abortion is morally right or wrong, or whether it should be legal? For this round I will argue why abortion should be allowed.

1. Woman's rights.
A woman has the right to do what ever she likes to her own body. Whether she chooses to got cosmetic surgery or commit suicide; it is her choice.. A fetus is still just part of a woman's body and she should be able to choose whether she has it growing inside her or not. It seems harsh but it's true. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus if she does not want to, it is her choice.

2. Separate entity.
You may argue that the fetus has rights too, and that they are equal to the mothers. Most abortions take place in the first trimester, where the fetus is totally incapable of surviving without the woman. It is therefore, not a separate entity and cannot exist outside the womb. During this time, the fetus is not even a fetus, it is just a zygote: a collection of cells. How can a ball of cells living of the woman have the same rights? The rights of a living breathing human being should have more rights than the cells inside her.

3. Adoption.

Adoption is a popular excuse for pro- life debaters. But the issue still stands: you are forcing a woman to carry a fetus for 9 months. Pregnancy still has a massive effect on women who have babies, but even more so for women who do not want them. The psychological trauma from carrying a fetus you do not want is massive.

4. Future.
Teenage mothers effectively ruin their life by having a child so early. Any prospects or dreams they had would be near impossible to reach, along with further education or any chance of a better life than they have. They should have the option of postponing motherhood until they are ready and are better prepared to look after their child instead of being pushed into it, completely unprepared. Not only is it better for the mother, but for any child that she has.

5. Awareness
A fetus is not conscious. It has no emotion, no thought. It is not a person. Yes, it has the potential to be one, but it is like blueprints to a house; it is not the actual thing. An embryo has as much consciousness as the sperm and ovum it is made up of, and is less developed than an animal. How can this have more rights than a woman?

6. It's her business.
I don't see why the issue of a woman's body is anyone's business but her own. It is not happening to anyone else and it does not affect them, so why should they be consulted on the matter? No one has the right to dictate over someone else's body. It is the woman's body and it is her business, not anyone else's. People should have no say in something that does not concern them.

7. It's your belief.
People are allowed to believe whatever they want in a free country. You may believe that it is wrong to abort a fetus, but it is just that; your belief. Pro-life people have no right to oppress their views on those people who believe otherwise. Seeming that it is them who are being affected, it is their belief that should be put in preference. If a woman is pro life, then she will never abort, that is her choice. But if a woman decides that she should abort, that is her choice too.

Thank you, I am looking forward to your reply.
Debate Round No. 1
SlamminSam212

Con

Thank you for accepting my debate.

"A woman has the right to do what ever she likes to her own body. Whether she chooses to got cosmetic surgery or commit suicide; it is her choice.. A fetus is still just part of a woman's body and she should be able to choose whether she has it growing inside her or not. It seems harsh but it's true. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus if she does not want to, it is her choice."

It is not just the part of her body she cannot have a baby by herself. So that statement is wrong, and also doingthoses things like committing suicide is not correct and is not a right thing to do.

"You may argue that the fetus has rights too, and that they are equal to the mothers. Most abortions take place in the first trimester, where the fetus is totally incapable of surviving without the woman. It is therefore, not a separate entity and cannot exist outside the womb. During this time, the fetus is not even a fetus, it is just a zygote: a collection of cells. How can a ball of cells living of the woman have the same rights? The rights of a living breathing human being should have more rights than the cells inside her."

So that fetus you are calling it cannot live by itself, so then upon that argument you would have to get rid of all pace makers for peoples hearts and respirators too. You should just pull the plugs on all of those people because they cannot live on their own without that. It like a baby needs its mother to live and become strong enough to stay alive.

"Adoption is a popular excuse for pro- life debaters. But the issue still stands: you are forcing a woman to carry a fetus for 9 months. Pregnancy still has a massive effect on women who have babies, but even more so for women who do not want them. The psychological trauma from carrying a fetus you do not want is massive."

VERY simple don't have sex and you wont have a baby. IF you have the driest of all paper or wheat something of that sort, and you hold a flame in your hand nothing will ever occur, but as soon as you connect, you have spark and that is what happens when you have sex nothing will ever happen until you do something. That is why there are things like condoms, birth control and the day after pill. The massive effect on a women well that is her fault then she should not of gotten knocked up.

"Teenage mothers effectively ruin their life by having a child so early. Any prospects or dreams they had would be near impossible to reach, along with further education or any chance of a better life than they have. They should have the option of postponing motherhood until they are ready and are better prepared to look after their child instead of being pushed into it, completely unprepared. Not only is it better for the mother, but for any child that she has."

Why should you ruin a babies life and kill it and suck its brains out because you decided to have sex unprotected and get pregnant. Why should her rights supersede those of the fetus, THEY SHOULDN'T.

"A fetus is not conscious. It has no emotion, no thought. It is not a person. Yes, it has the potential to be one, but it is like blueprints to a house; it is not the actual thing. An embryo has as much consciousness as the sperm and ovum it is made up of, and is less developed than an animal. How can this have more rights than a woman?"

IF you give it time, that's all it needs kind of like this if your taking a test and you are a really slow test taker and the other person is already done even before you get one question done, should the teacher come and just rip up your test you just need more time, and that's what a fetus needs.

"I don't see why the issue of a woman's body is anyone's business but her own. It is not happening to anyone else and it does not affect them, so why should they be consulted on the matter? No one has the right to dictate over someone else's body. It is the woman's body and it is her business, not anyone else's. People should have no say in something that does not concern them."

Because there is a living person inside of them. its not just her doings something to her body its to another body inside of her that should have rights to. NO ONES RIGHTS SHOULD SUPERSEDE ANOTHER. do you think that fetus should have no rights? DO you think that ever one shouldn't have the equal chance of living. I guess if your mom decided to abort you we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

"People are allowed to believe whatever they want in a free country. You may believe that it is wrong to abort a fetus, but it is just that; your belief. Pro-life people have no right to oppress their views on those people who believe otherwise. Seeming that it is them who are being affected, it is their belief that should be put in preference. If a woman is pro life, then she will never abort, that is her choice. But if a woman decides that she should abort, that is her choice too."

What can believe in whatever you want but that doesn't mean that it is right if someone jumps of a 100 story building its a free country he can do what he wants but that doesn't mean it is right.

ITS VERY SIMPLE PRO0LIFE or PRO-DEATH.
Common_Sense_Please

Pro

"It is not just the part of her body she can't have a baby by herself. So that statement is wrong, and also doingthoses things like committing suicide is not correct and not a right thing to do."

Your right, she needs sperm. But that doesn't stop it being a part of her body. It is connected to her body and feeds off it's nutrients. You can't deny that a foetus is not part of the woman's body; it is. About suicide, that is another debate all together and I disagree. However I won't say anything else about for the sake of staying on track.

"So that foetus you are calling it can't live by itself, so then upon that argument you would have to get rid of all pace makers for peoples hearts and respirators too. You should just pull the plugs on all of those people because they can't live on their own without that. It like a baby needs its mother to live and become strong enough to stay alive."

No. People with pacemakers ect do not rely on one person. They rely on a machine that can be interchanged and it is not a burden to anyone. The point is that a foetus is reliant on one person. A baby does not need its mother to survive. Anyone can look after it; it doesn't have to be the biological mother.

"VERY simple don't have sex and you wont have a baby. IF you have the driest of all paper or wheat something of that sort, and you hold a flame in your hand nothing will ever occur, but as soon as you connect, you have spark and that is what happens when you have sex nothing will ever happen until you do something. That is why there are things like condoms, birth control and the day after pill. The massive effect on a women well that is her fault then she should not of gotten knocked up."

Sex is a biological need; it is hard wired into our bodies. Do you really think that woman who want abortions got pregnant on purpose? Many conceptions happen, even with the use of contraception. 'Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control.' http://womensissues.about.com...
Also, many women don't know they are pregnant until after the amount of time needed to take the morning after pill.

"Why should you ruin a babies life and kill it and suck its brains out because you decided to have sex unprotected and get pregnant. Why should her rights supersede those of the foetus, THEY SHOULDN'T."

Your not ruining a babies life because one, it is not a baby, and two, it doesn't have a 'life'. Definition of life: the course of existence of an individual; the actions and events that occur in living. http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
Key word is individual. It is not individual and is only 'alive' through the mother's nutrients. As I said before, it's not always about unprotected sex and yes, I believe that the woman's rights should be above the cells growing inside her. She has a fully developed life with thought, consciousness and independence. The foetus has none of these and won't even be aware if it is aborted.

"IF you give it time, that's all it needs kind of like this if your taking a test and you are a really slow test taker and the other person is already done even before you get one question done, should the teacher come and just rip up your test you just need more time, and that's what a foetus needs."

For one, a teacher does come and collect the test after the time is up, but that is beside the point. Yes, in time the foetus can develop into a baby, but only at the mother's expense. Again, my point is that you can't force a woman to carry the foetus for 9 months while it develops. A caterpillar will develop into a butterfly in time, but you don't call it a butterfly.
"Because there is a living person inside of them. its not just her doings something to her body its to another body inside of her that should have rights to. NO ONES RIGHTS SHOULD SUPERSEDE ANOTHER. do you think that fetus should have no rights? DO you think that ever one shouldn't have the equal chance of living. I guess if your mom decided to abort you we wouldn't be having this conversation right now."
A foetus is not a living person. Definition of person: Human being; individual; Specific human being; the physical body of a specified individual. http://en.wiktionary.org.... As I have said, a foetus is not individual. It is merely part of the woman carrying it; a collection of cells which has the potential to grow using the woman's body as sustenance. The woman's rights SHOULD supersede that of the cells growing inside her. And yes, if my mum decided to abort, I would not be here; but I respect her right to choose whether to have a baby or not because it is her choice and no one else's. My mother is pro choice...and so am I.
"What can believe in whatever you want but that doesn't mean that it is right if someone jumps of a 100 story building its a free country he can do what he wants but that doesn't mean it is right."
If one person believes something is right, then it is right FOR THEM. Anyone who aborts will think that it is not morally wrong, and other people's opinions have no say in the matter. Just because you say that it is immoral, it doesn't make it so. Morals are in fact, what is considered as right and wrong according to the population at that time. Since the USA and UK have made abortion legal and the majority of people agree, then it shouldn't be morally wrong. You shouldn't force your version of morality on other people. And I won't start debating about suicide as I said before, but it is your view that it is wrong but it does not concern you so why does your view matter? Just like abortion. If a person is against abortion- they shouldn't have one. But they have no right to tell other people what they should do. It is as simple as that

"ITS VERY SIMPLE PRO0LIFE or PRO-DEATH."
No, it isn't. It is pro life or pro-choice. Pro choice is about the CHOICE. Pro choice people do not want all foetuses to be aborted; they just want the woman to have a choice in the matter. They want CHOICE not DEATH.
Other arguments:
Gametes.
Gametes (sperm and ovum) are living cells too, just like zygotes. So if people masturbate, does that mean that it is murder? You are killing millions of potential lives. I know that they need an ovum, but it still has ‘potential'. What about In Vitro fertilisation? Actual fertilised eggs are thrown away in the process; is this murder? And if not, then why is abortion?
Psychological harm.
In the case of rape or incest, massive psychological harm is done to the mother, and being forced to carry the child will create more. Does she have the right to spare herself from this harm? Or will the other people not connected to her situation have the right to tell what she can and can't do?
Reproductive choice.
Women should have the choice of whether to have children or not. Men can do this. They can leave a pregnant woman and never have to do anything about it, but a woman can't do this. She will have to carry the child for 9 months and possibly look after it for the rest of her life. If men can have this choice and women can't, then how will women ever be equal to men? Reproductive freedom is the choice whether to have children or not have children. It is the same as if someone told you that you could never have children. It is still reproductive freedom, but that will never happen. So why can someone dictate that these women HAVE to have children? Shouldn't women have the right to have complete control over their own bodies? or should other people control them?
Men.
77% of pro lifers are men. And none of them will ever get pregnant. They will never know the anguish of a young mum or an unwanted pregnancy, nor will they ever know the pain of childbirth. So... why should they have a say?
I will leave you with something to think about. If you can't trust a woman with a choice about her own body, how can you trust her with a child?
Debate Round No. 2
SlamminSam212

Con

SlamminSam212 forfeited this round.
Common_Sense_Please

Pro

Since my opponent has forfeited the last round, I will conclude my arguments in this one.

The base line is the rights of women. Women should have the right of what goes in or out of her body as she sees fit. It is her body, and no one else should have a say in what happens to it. This debate has mostly been about early abortions (since those are the most common by far) where the pregnancy consists of nothing but a ball of cells with no consciousness, individual life, feeling or anything that would indicate life. A woman's rights should always be above that of this non-conscious, non-feeling and non-developed ball of cells that reside inside her. Most abortions take place because contraception has failed, and not because of a woman's incompetence, and no-one should be able to tell a woman that she MUST carry this child for 9 months and put her body through pregnancy just because it is against THIER personal morals. It is not for other people to decide, because, simply, it is not their body, it is not their pregnancy, and it is not their business.

Thank you.

Readers. please vote Pro, if not for common sense.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
As much as I'm against abortion, not because of some misguided pro-life stance, but because I'm kind of against the whole idea of expanding rights, and against just assuming that people have unlimited freedom of choice and because I think it promotes promiscuous sex without consequences, I still had to vote PRO for the fact that the CON forfeited the last round, because of the ridiculous ultimatum (the whole pro-life or pro-death thing), and that, ultimately, while I don't believe one bit in the PRO's whole "right to choose whatever" crap (because I personally don't believe that having a strong desire for something gives you a right to it), anything is better than the CON trying to force his extreme absolutes down our throats. PRO all the way, unfortunately.
Posted by feverish 7 years ago
feverish
<"ITS VERY SIMPLE PRO-LIFE or PRO-DEATH.">

Then why do you support the death penalty Sam, if it's so simple?

People need to vote on this debate (sadly I can't), forfeiting rounds should not be rewarded.
Posted by Common_Sense_Please 7 years ago
Common_Sense_Please
forfeit? Why does this keep happening in my debates!
Posted by Common_Sense_Please 7 years ago
Common_Sense_Please
Sorry SlamminSam212? are you addressing me or?...
Posted by SlamminSam212 7 years ago
SlamminSam212
Thats right Common SENSE
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Patsox, that line was epic.
Posted by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
<"ITS VERY SIMPLE PRO0LIFE or PRO-DEATH.">

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Cody_Franklin 7 years ago
Cody_Franklin
SlamminSam212Common_Sense_PleaseTied
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untitled_entity
SlamminSam212Common_Sense_PleaseTied
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