The Instigator
Riley15
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
j-bones
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/3/2015 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 279 times Debate No: 72877
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Riley15

Con

I would love to start off saying my main points and then whoever would like to defend their argument can help spin off the debate :)

- Babies feel pain when they are in the womb
- Planned Parenthood does not discuss other options with women such as adoption and foster care
- Abortion does not unrape a woman
- Women are not educated on what synthetic hormones that are given to them are doing to their bodies
- Babies are humans too, therefore they have rights
- We should not kill another due to our mistakes
- Women are not aware of what actually happens during an abortion
j-bones

Pro

Thank you, Riley15, for debating the topic of "Abortion" with me. As the scope of this topic wasn't made entirely clear, I am making some assumptions about it. Please do correct me if these are assumptions are not as you intended.

Assumption #1: It would be senseless to argue that every pregnancy should be aborted, therefore "abortion" is used here as shorthand for "a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy." It's that right that I intend to argue for.

Assumption #2: This debate is not about the laws in any specific country but rather about the underlying philosophical question of whether women have the aforementioned right or not. I base this assumption, in part, on CON's mention of Planned Parenthood which is an international organization.

I base my argument on three assertions: 1) People have a natural right to dominion over their own bodies. 2) Prior to some arbitrary point in its development, a fetus is not a person. 3) While we may not be able to pinpoint the moment a fetus becomes person we can establish a point, prior to which it is certain that a fetus is not a person.

CON has made several assertions and bears the burden of proof for those. I will, however, give some initial thoughts on those.


CON's Assertion #1 - Babies feel pain when they are in the womb

CON will need to provide evidence for this. I am prepared to provide evidence to the contrary.



CON's Assertion #2 - Planned Parenthood does not discuss other options with women such as adoption and foster care

What one organization does or does not do should have no bearing on human rights.

CON's Assertion #3 - Abortion does not unrape a woman

I concede this is true but challenge CON to provide one example where an abortion was performed with the intent of "unraping" a woman.

CON's Assertion #4 - Women are not educated on what synthetic hormones that are given to them are doing to their bodies

I believe this is certainly an overgeneralization, but in any case a woman's education should have no bearing on her human rights.

CON's Assertion #5
- Babies are humans too, therefore they have rights

I will look forward to CON's evidence and reasoning for this claim.

CON's Assertion #6 - We should not kill another due to our mistakes

I concede this is true, but as it relates to CON's argument, it relies on CON's previous assertion (#6) and is therefore irrelevant unless CON can prove that assertion.

CON's Assertion #7 - Women are not aware of what actually happens during an abortion

I believe that, almost without exception, women are very aware that an abortion is a termination of a pregnancy. I would concede that it would be contrary to a woman's rights to terminate her pregnancy without her knowledge of it.



Debate Round No. 1
Riley15

Con

Riley15 forfeited this round.
j-bones

Pro

j-bones forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Riley15

Con

Riley15 forfeited this round.
j-bones

Pro

As my opponent has now forfeited two rounds in a row, I suspect he was unaware of how short he made them. I'm new here at DDO and I don't know how this sort of thing is usually handled. I'd rather not start my record here with an undeserved result whether it be win, loss, or tie. The point is to debate the issue.

I intend to forfeit the last two rounds and check back sometime tomorrow (well, later today in my time zone.) I'd be happy to redo this debate with Riley15, though perhaps rounds lasting a day or longer would be more workable.
Debate Round No. 3
Riley15

Con

Riley15 forfeited this round.
j-bones

Pro

j-bones forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Riley15

Con

Riley15 forfeited this round.
j-bones

Pro

I forfeit this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 1 year ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
Abortion opponents DON'T know what they are talking about! Their claim to be "pro life" is actually Stupid Propaganda --they ACTUALLY are only "pro HUMAN life", and most other life-forms on the planet can be sacrificed , as far as they are concerned. So, partly as a result of opposition to abortion, total human population in the world keeps growing, and THOUSANDS of other species become EXTINCT each year in direct consequence. "Pro-life"? NOT HARDLY!

That's just for starters; there are plenty of other ways in which abortion opponents don't know what they are talking about. Most of them are described in pages at that fightforsense blog titled "Erroneous Precepts of Abortion Opponents", "Hypocrisies of Abortion Opponents", "Biology and the Abortion Debate", "Questions Abortion Opponents Avoid Answering", "You, Baby/Child", and "Honest Abortion Opponents". Enjoy!
Posted by j-bones 1 year ago
j-bones
Riley15, I hope this doesn't seem insensitive, but I'd very much appreciate it if you would explain exactly what you mean by claiming you are an "abortion survivor." That phrase seems to be used rather loosely. I've heard it used by someone to mean that her mother had had a previous abortion. I've heard it used by someone to mean that his aunt had had an abortion. I've heard it used by several people who claimed their mothers had reportedly *thought* about having an abortion.

There are, however, vanishingly few people who have actually survived abortion procedures. I've heard a handful of stories of adults who allegedly survived late-term abortions in the 70s. Those stories sometimes seem plausible at first blush, but when scrutinized they are actually rather dubious. They invariably are high in emotionally charged content, equally high in questionable details, and surprisingly low in corroborating evidence. In at least one case I know of, the "survivor" was making a rather good living by charging many thousands of dollars per speaking engagement with various pro-life and religious organizations.
Posted by Riley15 1 year ago
Riley15
Thank you for the wonderful insight. I would love to know more of your reasoning behind this since you have provided no evidence for your claim. And if you don't think I know what I am talking about, I AM AN ABORTION SURVIVOR. So thank you for your comment and opinion.

@elvroin_vonn_trazem
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 1 year ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
If you visit the blog at fightforsense (dot) wordpress (dot) com, you will find a long list of excuses used by abortion opponents to oppose abortion --every one of which is thoroughly trashed. They have NO valid arguments in this day-and-age, mostly because they don't actually know what they are talking about.
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