The Instigator
Fighter605
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ashhin8
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/4/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 458 times Debate No: 72929
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Fighter605

Con

Abortion is murder. The baby has a heartbeat and is alive as soon as the baby is fertilized. When receiving an abortion, you are taking the life of an unborn child.
ashhin8

Pro

Besides all of my opponent's obvious flaws in their beginning argument, the "killing" of a fetus is in no way an unjust act.

I should probably begin by explaining the actual fertilization process that occurs in the creation of a human. A baby goes through several stages of development, beginning as a fertilized egg. The egg develops into a blastocyst, an embryo, then a fetus. However, a fetus does not develop a heartbeat until about 6-8 weeks after being conceived, therefore countering my opponent's claim that a "baby has a heartbeat...as soon as the baby is fertilized." Not to mention, the nervous system (the thing in charge of feeling?) does not develop until week 27-30, making that entire argument null and void.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov...

To move on, I would like to restate that abortion is in no way murder. Some claim that the embryo or fetus is a human being, and thus to abort it is murder. But an embryo is not a human being. There is no scientific reason to characterize a raisin-size lump of cells as a human being. Opponent, bear with me on this somewhat gory example, if you had a raisin-size fetus in one hand, and a living infant in the other, and you had to drop one of them, which would you choose? If you are as pro-life as you come across, the decision should be impossible.

If the resolution of this debate is to make abortion illegal, I bring up the fact that banning abortion will not make it go away. Abortion is illegal in countries such as Ireland and the Philippines, and research only shows that abortions in such countries have only increased. According to US-based reproductive health research organization, Guttmacher Institute, in 2008, there were over 500,000 cases of abortion in the Philippines every year and about 1,000 deaths due to abortion-related complications. Maternal deaths, which are highly preventable, account for about 12%-14% of all women"s deaths in the country.
http://www.rappler.com...

If the end product here is to ban abortion, it just will not work, and I hope my opponent can see that. Why not allow for a safer way to have an abortion? I can see that pro-lifers don't want death, however that's exactly what's happening by not allowing safer abortions. Actual breathing, living human beings are dying due to such restrictions, and it's time for a change.

Just to get this out of the way, any religious arguments brought upon during this debate shall be debunked immediately, seeing as I will assume this is about government.

I would also like to disclaim that I am pro-choice, a woman's body is her own business.

I look forward to a negating response.
Debate Round No. 1
Fighter605

Con

I should probably start with pregnancy in this case. The conceiver, or mother, wouldn't know she was pregnant unless showing the signs of carrying a child. The egg is fertilized within ten of days of conception. But, depending on the mothers last menstrual cycle, the idea of pregnancy can be pushed aside within her mind. Now, since a fetus doesn't develop a heartbeat until 6-8 weeks, it's still a human.

Assuming my opponent meant that a mother could give birth to anything BUT a human, I downgrade her idea of a raisin-size lump. The lump, would still be a human. What else might the raisin-size lump form into? An animal? Obviously not. There is no way, that a mother could give birth to anything, other than what the DNA from both parents give away to.

Giving this, Abortion is still technically a murdering case. A miscarriage is normal for some mothers. It's a natural way of losing a child. Abortions can happen in several ways. Abortions are also meant to happen right before twelve weeks.

Surgical Abortion Procedures

1. Manual Vacuum Aspiration: within 7 weeks after last menstrual period
Dilators (metal rods) are used to stretch the cervical muscle until the opening is wide enough for abortion instruments to pass through the uterus. A hand-held syringe is attached to tubing, which is inserted into the uterus. The fetus is suctioned out.

2. Suction Curettage: after 14 weeks from the last menstrual period
The abortionist uses a dilator or laminaria to open the cervix. Laminaria are thin sticks from a kelp species that are inserted hours before the procedure and allowed to slowly absorb water and expand, thereby dilating the cervix. Once the cervix is dilated, the abortionist inserts tubing into the uterus and attaches the tubing to a suction machine. Suction pulls apart the fetus" body and out the uterus. After suction, the doctor and nurses must reassemble the fetus" dismembered parts to ensure they have all the pieces.

3. D & C (Dilation and Curettage): within first 12 weeks
The cervix is dilated. A suction device is placed in the uterine cavity to remove the fetus and placenta. Then the abortionist inserts a curette (a loop-shaped knife) into the uterus. The abortionist uses the curette to scrape any remaining fetal parts and the placenta out of the uterus.

4. D & E (Dilation and Evacuation): within 13-24 weeks after last menstrual period
The fetus literally doubles in size between the 11th and 12th weeks of pregnancy. Soft cartilage hardens into bone at 16 weeks, making the fetus too large and strong to pass through a suction tube. The D & E procedure begins by inserting laminaria a day or two before the abortion, opening the cervix wide to accommodate the larger fetal size. The abortionist then both tears and cuts the fetus and uses the vacuum machine to extract its remains. Because the skull is too large to be suctioned through the tube, it must be crushed by forceps for removal. Pieces must be extracted very carefully because the jagged, sharp pieces of the broken skull could easily cut the cervix.

5. Saline: after 15 weeks of pregnancy
This procedure is conducted in the same manner as amniocentesis (a prenatal test used to diagnose a fetus" potential chromosomal abnormalities). A long needle is inserted into the woman"s abdomen, directly into the amniotic sac. It is at this point that a saline abortion and amniocentesis differ. In a saline abortion, amniotic fluid is removed from the woman and replaced by a strong saline (salt) solution. As the fetus" lungs absorb the salt solution, it begins to suffocate. It may struggle and may even have convulsions. The saline also burns off the fetus" outer layer of skin. Saline abortion can take one to six hours before the fetus is no longer viable. The woman begins labor after approximately 12 hours, and she may take up to 24 hours to deliver. Because the procedure is often quite long, many times the woman is left to labor alone.

6. Prostaglandin: after 15 weeks of pregnancy
This procedure is conducted in the same manner as a saline abortion, except prostaglandin (a hormone that causes the woman to start labor) replaces saline. Prostaglandin activates contractions. It can cause overly painful or intense labor; there have been cases in which the violence of the contractions ruptured the mother"s uterus.1 This type of abortion is not preferred by abortionists because there is a 40% higher chance of a live birth.

7. Hysterotomy: after 18 weeks
This procedure is the same as a cesarean section (in which the doctor cuts through the abdomen and uterus to deliver the baby), except that in a hysterotomy, no medical attention is given to the baby upon delivery to help it survive. Most often, a wet towel is placed over the baby"s face so it can"t breathe. Sometimes the baby placed in a bucket of water. The goal is to have a baby that won"t survive.

8. D & X (Dilation and Extraction): from 20 weeks after last menstrual period to full term. Also called "partial birth abortion."
This procedure takes three days. During the first two days, the woman"s cervix is dilated. She is given medication for cramping. On the third day, she receives medication to induce labor. As the woman labors, the abortionist uses an ultrasound to locate the baby"s legs. The abortionist then grasps a leg with forceps and delivers the baby up to its head. Next, using a scissors, the abortionist creates an opening in the base of the baby"s skull. A suction catheter is inserted into the skull opening, and the baby"s brains are suctioned out. The skull collapses, and the rest of the baby"s body is delivered through the birth canal.

Chemical Abortion Options

1. RU-486 (Mifepristone): within 4-7 weeks of the last menstrual period.
Also called "the abortion pill."
This drug interferes with levels of progesterone, a hormone that keeps the fetus implanted in the wall of the uterus. The woman is prescribed progesterone and then returns to the clinic two days later to receive a prostaglandin drug that induces labor and expels the dead fetus. A third visit may be required if the baby is not expelled, at which time a woman has a 5-8% likelihood of needing a surgical abortion to complete the process. RU-486 is documented to be unsafe for women.2

2. Methotrexate and Misoprostol
Methotrexate is used for treatment of cancer, and Misoprostol is used for ulcer treatment. In a chemical abortion, these two drugs are used in combination. Methotrexate causes cells in the placenta (the organ that nourishes the fetus) to die. Misoprostol empties the fetus from the uterus by causing the uterus to contract and push the fetus out. Methotrexate is a drug used in chemotherapy and has the potential for serious liver toxicity.

These are all inhumane. Abortion is murder no matter the case. In cases of rape, or incest, the baby should still have a chance. There is one thing called adoption. Abortion puts a burden on the mother for the rest of her life. Anyone who says otherwise, is wrong. Its scientifically proven. Its something a mother would never forgive herself for. She murdered an innocent child in the womb. Given that it takes 6-8 weeks for a heartbeat, the child would have a heartbeat when the abortion is occurring. Making the fetus, human. And making the abortion, murder.
ashhin8

Pro

ashhin8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Fighter605

Con

Since my opponent forfeited, I have made my point clear that Abortion is indeed murder. It should be outlawed. Now if it is, are people going find other ways to do it? Of course. But at least Abortion would be illegal.
ashhin8

Pro

ashhin8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Fighter605

Con

Fighter605 forfeited this round.
ashhin8

Pro

ashhin8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Fighter605

Con

Fighter605 forfeited this round.
ashhin8

Pro

ashhin8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by PericIes 1 year ago
PericIes
A sperm has to be combined with an egg before it is human. Proper nurturing of a sperm does not necessarily mean combining it with an egg (as sperm does not need to be combined with an egg to live a full and healthy life), which means its life cycle, with proper nurturing, does not inevitably lead to an elderly human, which, by my stated reasoning, means it is not human. A sperm is a separate organism, which, when combined with an egg, forms a human. Also, the definition of murder is "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." It is only unlawful if that human being is also a person.
Posted by KarlRalph123 1 year ago
KarlRalph123
1 thing I must say:

Pericles, by that statement, you're basically saying masturbation is mass murder.
Posted by KarlRalph123 1 year ago
KarlRalph123
Abortion is sort of a grey area, I nelieve it should be legal. 1 thing I don't get is that killing a pregnant women is considered a double homicide but abortion is not murder.
Posted by PericIes 1 year ago
PericIes
Fetuses are humans. If nurtured properly, they will eventually develop into an elderly human, just as a human in any other stage of life. An infant will do so, a toddler will do so, an adolescent will do so, etc. They will not develop into a tree or a snail or an anteater, but a human. Children have fewer cells than adults (anomalies such as midgets excluded), as do fetuses. It is illogical to assume that because of the number of cells a home sapiens can be less of a homo sapiens than others. Cognitive development is trickier, but I would still argue that, physiologically, regardless of mental capacity, a fetus is human.
HOWEVER, in spite of all this, I would still have to posit that abortion, as long as it takes place before a certain time during the pregnancy and, possibly, only for certain reasons (not sure on that point yet) is morally acceptable from my perspective. This is because, while all fetuses may be humans, not every fetus is a person. This may sound cruel and/or insensitive, but there isn't really another way to put it in English. There comes a point when a human is no longer considered a person, with all the rights of being a person entailed. Deceased humans, humans on life support with no chance of recovery, and, yes, fetuses at certain stages. They are simply not complex enough to be considered people yet, even if they are human. I'm not extremely well-versed on the subject though, so forgive me if I've made an error. I was just bored and thought I'd comment.
Posted by Reeseroni 1 year ago
Reeseroni
I can not believe someone thinks that the killing of a fetus is not an unjust act. It kind of unfortunate to think that a developing baby is viable to be killed because you don't want it. You are preventing life from occurring. This is murder, indirectly or directly-however you choose to see it.
Posted by Voxol 1 year ago
Voxol
is the debate whether or not abortion is murder or whether or not abortion should be legal
No votes have been placed for this debate.