The Instigator
Riley15
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
ejphoenix
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Riley15
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2016 Category: Health
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 385 times Debate No: 88001
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Riley15

Con

I am 100% pro life. Join this debate if you are pro choice and wish to defend you position. We will have 5 rounds for the debate... hope to hear from you soon and look forward to a respectful debate!
ejphoenix

Pro

I will be taking the position of "pro-choice" in this debate.

To start, I think it is important for me to point out that the position of "pro-choice", to me, means that any individual woman has the right to choose whether or not to get an abortion, and that choice can not be made for her by any government entity; to clarify, the position of "pro-choice" does not necessarily mean that abortion is inherently right or wrong.

When you say that you are "100%" pro-life, what exactly do you mean?
Debate Round No. 1
Riley15

Con

When I say 100% pro life, I believe that abortion is wrong no matter what the circumstance is.
Many may ask about rape or incest, but should that child receive the death penalty because of the acts of his or her father?
And when you say you are pro choice, do you believe that a woman should be able to choose even in the third trimester? I believe that even first trimester abortion are horrific. The heart is beating at 3 and 1/2 weeks. We need to realize that that is a baby inside the woman, not a blob of tissue.
I believe that we should not have to kill our innocent children to achieve the dreams and careers we strive for. We should welcome these children into our world instead of seeing them as a threat. Of course there are going to be situations where the mother cannot take care of the child because of financial reasons or stability, but this is why we have many organizations like Live action, churches, mentors, and government agencies which can help these women. Not to mention adoption... there are many more options than just simply killing the child.
Also, when women are asked why they received an abortion the number one response is, "I felt that I had no choice." How do you justify this when you seem so set on the fact that women should have this choice to kill their child or not, when in reality our abortion clinics and agencies are not really laying all the cards on the table?
ejphoenix

Pro

My position of "pro-choice" is based on the idea that it is the woman's choice, regardless of circumstance, trimester, etcetera, to choose whether or not to have an abortion, not the inherent goodness of badness of abortion.

That being said, nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester of pregnancy. During this stage, a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.
In the cases that you mentioned, where the mother's financial means are not stable, it is definitely possible for the child to be born, then sent through a government-funded group home, and occasionally become adopted. Unfortunately, the amount of funding that group homes receive is often very little, providing almost the exact same environment that the child would have had staying with the mother. Neither situation is better or good for the child.

I would like to ask, at what point do you consider it an "abortion"? At what point is it no longer a blob of tissue, but a child?
Debate Round No. 2
Riley15

Con

I believe that the killing of a child inside the womb is abortion during and stage of a pregnancy. I cannot understand your reasoning behind a baby being viable or not. As I said, heart is beating at 3 and 1/2 weeks. Science proves that this is in fact a separate entity from his or her mother. ALL abortion is horrific. I am not for any trimester- I believe that abortion is just as terrible in the first trimester than the third.
And you still did not answer my question on how you justify that most women feel that they had no other choice than to abort their child.. can this be because organizations like Planned Parenthood are not giving these women all the choices possible? Maybe these organizations are persuading women a certain direction? Certainly.. it happens every day. Planned Parenthood employees have a script to avoid any kind of question a woman may have and to ensure that those women come in to receive an abortion.
You discuss first trimester abortion, yet your stance on the pro choice is that a woman should be able to decide at any stage when she can abort her child. I ask you when you consider this "fetus" and child? When should the line be drawn? Can we kill children even outside the womb? I mean honestly, what you essentially are saying is that there is no difference between killing a baby in the womb or killing a baby outside the womb... I really do not understand this whole viable vs. unviable, baby vs. fetus argument. Does a single difference in a day decide when a life is a life?
ejphoenix

Pro

Again, my position on "pro-choice" is that it is not for me, nor a body of government, or a religious group to decide what a woman can or cannot do with her body or what goes on inside of it. It is the choice of the woman, and the woman alone.

I also cannot do anything more than speculate on why a woman might say that they had no other choice than abortion, as I am not pregnant, nor a woman. Perhaps some women feel this way because they feel that even if the child is born, there is no chance that that child will live to have a good life; perhaps some women feel this way because their lives would be put in grave danger if they were to continue with their pregnancy; perhaps some women feel this way because their child would be born with a defect that would result in infant mortality. Whatever the reason may be for a woman to feel like there is no other choice, I still don't feel that anyone else should be able to make that choice for them.

To clarify my earlier question, I was asking at what point do you consider it a human being? Is it a human being the exact moment of conception, when the sperm meets the egg? Or is it human being when it starts to develop human features? Or is it a human being the moment there is a heartbeat? In other words, at what point along the growth of a fetus, from conception to birth, would you consider it to be a human being?
Debate Round No. 3
Riley15

Con

I believe that life begins at conception. I do not understand how a single day defines when a child should be able to live or not. So the day before a child enters the second trimester, it is okay to kill him or her. But the first day of the second trimester, it is okay? That just does not make sense to me. It is a human life. Now I ask you, when do you believe life begins?

Also, on your argument on quality of life for the child... why is that our decision to decide whether or not that child lives? No one should have the decision to decide whether or not someone dies. No doctor, no woman, no government. That child has right too. I understand woman's rights, but the place where you and i disagree is that it is no longer a woman's choice when another life's rights begin. That's just not fair that someone gets to decide whether a child gets to live or not.
ejphoenix

Pro

It is very important to the argument of abortion to define exactly when a human life begins. If human life begins at birth, then anything that happens to the child while still in the womb is not considered taking a life. On the other side of that, if human life begins at conception, then things like birth control and the "Plan B", that both prevent a conceived and fertilized egg from developing, are also considered taking a life. Now, as I have said, most abortions carried out are done so during the first trimester of a pregnancy, not the second or third, so defining whether or not a fetus, which at that point does not have a lot of recognizable features or much bodily function, is really human being is incredibly important. When you say, "it is no longer a woman's choice when another life's rights begin," do we not have to first define exactly when another life's rights do actually begin?

I also don't believe that is our decision - that is actually my entire position on the subject. It is no one's right to decide what happens, besides the woman carrying the fetus. Furthermore, I also agree that no one should be able to decide whether or not someone dies, but again, we run into the conundrum of whether or not the fetus is alive to begin with. If life really does begin with conception, then are women who take birth control and/or "Plan B" committing acts of murder?
Debate Round No. 4
Riley15

Con

Riley15 forfeited this round.
ejphoenix

Pro

ejphoenix forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by dude100 9 months ago
dude100
Not going post a vote on this because there are too many things to consider. I work in a hospital for a living and trust me when I tell you, you don't want to know. If that child is absolutely suffering from birth defects, then that child can suffer and suffer and then die before the age of 1. And that is why I will never work on the third floor again. Needless to say I believe there's no way you can completely let things go unregulated as they are. honestly, it's that bad. Somebody should've forced the abortion because for me it was like we were intentionally allowing the child to suffer and die right in front of us. And then the poor mother so upset looks at you like you're one to blame, as if it couldn't get any worse.
Posted by dude100 9 months ago
dude100
It's actually really tough to make a decision on this because there are many factors people don't usually consider. Personally from a moral point of view I believe that people shouldn't get rid of a child unless under certain circumstances like rape or life threatening birth defects. However there is another side to this that people forget, Economics :). Many people claim to be pro-life.... at least until that life needs our help. You want to force people to have their child and then when nobody is capable of taking care of that child you refuse to pay for that child's care and education. First they are forced to be born in a bad situation where people in the area they live in are impoverished and the crime rate is extremely high. Then that child just becomes another high-risk offender like the countless people around them who end up circulating through the foster care system.
Posted by Riley15 9 months ago
Riley15
So frustrating- this website was down so I could not post my argument :(
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 9 months ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
This seems to be your most adamant topic of debate.

Nice to see another fellow conservative here. Not many of us around anymore.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ZachZimmey 9 months ago
ZachZimmey
Riley15ejphoenixTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: YAY