The Instigator
TheNextDaVinci
Con (against)
The Contender
akaRay
Pro (for)

Abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/16/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 403 times Debate No: 95432
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

TheNextDaVinci

Con

The embryo is more than just cells, it's the foundations of a living human! If you didn't harm the embryo it goes without saying that it will form into a living being, and your taking the life away from the baby. When the embryo is created that's when the soul enters the body, your taking away the person's one chance to live on this earth because you MADE THE MISTAKE(not including rape). But even with rape, the spouse will ever be so great full that you gave them a chance to live! Instead of people saying that the spouse will remind them of being raped, it will show them how that the most beautiful thing on earth came out of something horrible! It shows the strong women that survived an awful experience that no one should have to go throw. My great grandmother made a mistake, but she decided to go throw with having a baby, even though she had to put the baby up for adoption, i would like to say that my siblings, mother, ants and uncle, and grandmother got a chance to live their lives, and a most of us have been successful in our lives.
akaRay

Pro

Thank you for setting up this debate, I hope for this to be a fun few rounds.

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester (88% of women who have an abortion do so in their first trimester), when the fetus is incapable of existing without the mother. The fetus is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord. Its health is dependent on her health, and as such it cannot be regarded as a separate entity because it cannot exist outside of her womb.

I
f a teenager is to find herself pregnant, she doesn't exactly have the brightest future ahead of her. Teenage mothers are much more likely to leave school, receive inadequate prenatal care, rely on public assistance to raise their child, develop health problems, or end up divorced.

If a woman or teenager becomes pregnant as the result of rape, this will not only cause more psychological torture to them than being raped in and of itself, it can also affect the mental health of their child. Children conceived of rape are more likely to suffer from severe psychological disorders such as PTSD, depression and anxiety.

Unintended and unwanted childbearing has been linked with a plethora of social problems, including divorce, poverty, child abuse, and juvenile delinquency. Unwanted children are found less likely to have a secure family life, and they have lower self-esteem than their opposite intended peers 23 years after birth. If an unintended child is told that they weren't meant to be born, their lower self-esteem and possibly their depression doesn't exactly help the mother's argument that something so great came from an awful situation.

Finally, I think civil rights is worth mentioning. A woman should have the choice to opt out of birthing a child. If someone thinks abortion is wrong and they're pregnant by mistake, they can simply not take that option and go through with parenthood, while at the same time someone who does not think it's wrong should have the option to abort the child. The pro-abortion side is also the pro-choice side. A woman should have control over her body, and a law shouldn't determine whether or not she can abort a child if she doesn't want to risk all of the aforementioned negatives to unwanted childbearing.

In my eyes, there are far too many negatives to banning abortion. I just don't think it should happen, for the numerous reasons that I've put into one argument here.

I eagerly await your response.

Sources:
http://womensissues.about.com...
http://trauma.blog.yorku.ca...
http://www.prochoiceforum.org.uk...
Debate Round No. 1
TheNextDaVinci

Con

"If a teenager is to find herself pregnant, she doesn't exactly have the brightest future ahead of her. Teenage mothers are much more likely to leave school, receive inadequate prenatal care, rely on public assistance to raise their child, develop health problems, or end up divorced."

Now if a teenager participates in the actions(sex) in what could produce a child then she knows the risks and what could possibly happen! Now one that has ever had sex has said " I didn't know that I could get pregnant because of having sex". Now you can get health problems from most things you can do. Dropping out of school would be their own choice, there are plenty of schools that have day care on campus, so dropping out of school because you will have social problems with your classmates is not a valid excuse for terminating life. And how many teenagers do you know are married? How can they get divorced?


"If a woman or teenager becomes pregnant as the result of rape, this will not only cause more psychological torture to them than being raped in and of itself, it can also affect the mental health of their child. Children conceived of rape are more likely to suffer from severe psychological disorders such as PTSD, depression and anxiety."

Now less than 1% of all abortions are performed on women who were raped or were victims of incest, pro-choice activists insist that abortion must be legal for these women, even if it leads to thousands of women a year having abortions for other reasons. Now you may have "psychological torture" because of the rape and the child, but more women who have their baby aborted say that they regret their decision , so it can happen either way. Again it can show that the most beautiful thing on earth came out of something horrible, and how many have no regrets of not aborting the baby. Does the problems the baby MAY have mean that life is just not worth living anymore? Show me the suicide rate of those children, they are given a life that many who of snatched away, and they experience it the best they can, someone making the decision that they wouldn't want to live is selfish.


"Unintended and unwanted childbearing has been linked with a plethora of social problems, including divorce, poverty, child abuse, and juvenile delinquency. Unwanted children are found less likely to have a secure family life, and they have lower self-esteem than their opposite intended peers 23 years after birth. If an unintended child is told that they weren't meant to be born, their lower self-esteem and possibly their depression doesn't exactly help the mother's argument that something so great came from an awful situation."


So right of the away "Linked" so not a for sure reason for the problems that these couples have faced, Divorce is a multitude of things that a couple has a difficulties with, and you don't have to house the baby, you can put the baby up for adoption and other situations. And the child being alive is not reason for child abuse, that says something about the person. But with these problems that they face when growing up to the age of 23, does that mean the life is just not worth living for anymore? And when they do grow up pass 23, who says that they won't grow out of the depression, look at it in a different meaning as they become older and wiser? I don't know anyone that has had all the same views and beliefs all throughout their life.


And Finally I would like to have a voice for someone that never got to have one, someone that had the assumption that their life wasn't worth living, or that they weren't worth it. Someone that had to pay for a bad decision that someone else made.


http://liveactionnews.org...






akaRay

Pro

"Now if a teenager participates in the actions(sex) in what could produce a child then she knows the risks and what could possibly happen! Now one that has ever had sex has said 'I didn't know that I could get pregnant because of having sex'"

You're asserting that giving birth is the responsible choice in the event of an unwanted pregnancy, but this is an opinion.

However, if we take a deeper look at what you're saying, you think getting an abortion is avoiding responsibility. This implies that it's a woman's responsibility to bear a child if she chooses to have sex. This sounds more like an argument trying to dictate a woman's role and purpose rather than the argument about the life of a child.

"And how many teenagers do you know are married? How can they get divorced?"

I was talking about the future, when they can legally marry they are much more likely to be divorced.

"Now you may have 'psychological torture' because of the rape and the child, but more women who have their baby aborted say that they regret their decision, so it can happen either way."

Key word: More.
I read the article you linked, and what I saw was 7 women who had been raped and had their children. I don't see how this means "more women" didn't regret their decision. In fact, I have an article that states the opposite:

"According to a new study that tracked hundreds of women who had abortions, more than 95 percent of participants reported that ending a pregnancy was the right decision for them. Feelings of relief outweighed any negative emotions, even three years after the procedure."
http://wonkette.com...
http://wonkette.com...

"Divorce is a multitude of things that a couple has a difficulties with, and you don't have to house the baby, you can put the baby up for adoption and other situations"

So, adoption is a viable alternative to abortion?
This implies that the only reason a woman would want to get an abortion is to avoid raising a child, and that isn't the case. Depending on the circumstances, the mere act of having a child in the hospital can cost between $3,000 and $37,000 in the United States. That, and giving birth is a dangerous thing; in the United States, pregnancy complications are the sixth most common cause of death for women between the ages 20 and 34.

"But with these problems that they face when growing up to the age of 23, does that mean the life is just not worth living for anymore?"
You've used this argument twice, and I think this is an appropriate time to bring up the death of Savita Halappanavar.
Mrs. Halappanavar died in 2012 at the age of 31. here are the details:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Mrs. Halappanavar was found to be miscarrying when she was admitted to Galway University Hospital. The dentist, who was 17 weeks pregnant, was denied a medical termination despite being in agonizing pain. She went on to suffer a miscarriage, and developed septicaemia which killed her on October 30th, 2012. This all happened because of the prohibition of abortion.

You used the "Do these things mean the life isn't worth living anymore?" argument twice.
A right to life does not imply a right to live by threatening somebody else's life, because bearing children is dangerous and is always a threat to the mother's life. A right to life, by the way, is a right not to have somebody else's will imposed upon your body. Do women not have this right as well?

Sources:

Listed throughout the argument.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tonyrobinson 1 month ago
tonyrobinson
Chemicals that makes them love their child? Never heard of that one before, not all parents love their children otherwise no child would ever be abandoned, neglected or abused. So what happened to the chemicals in those parents bodies?
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
BackCommander
@tonyrobinson, If we're here to play the "where's the proof" game maybe you should provide the proof for "Even parents who have gave their children up for adoption have not regretted the decision to have their children."

Yes, people with children are literally the only people on the planet who cannot fairly assess how they feel about their children. Here's an easily comparable example in the form of a question. Would you say that those who describe themselves as currently in love are an unbiased source on the question of love as anything more than a chemical reaction in the brain to promote procreation? A mother can hate everything about their child, and more often than not will still love the child, because they're flooded with chemicals that tell them to. Is it really that hard to grasp that?

My claim is based on the well known fact that as a species we are often slaves to the chemicals our body produces. My claim is not wrong simply because you lack the mental processing power to understand it.
Posted by akaRay 2 months ago
akaRay
I'm done with this. Take a look at the debate with your own arguments in consideration, but at this point it's not worth commenting because I'm probably not going to respond anyway (life's getting in the way, I have work to do).
Posted by akaRay 2 months ago
akaRay
It's very clear you didn't read any of my arguments past round 1.
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
"It's a scientific fact that life begins at conception, but the right to life does not imply the right to use somebody else's body or the right to threaten somebody else's life"

So you are justifying all abortions for the .05% of them where the live of the mother is cited as the reason? Former Surgeon General C Everett Koop believed that all of those abortions were not necessary as he has noted that going until the child is viable outside of the womb then inducing has never cost the mother her life.
Nobody can infringe upon others rights to exercise their rights, that is what abortion does though. The right to life is the most basic of human rights. It is however denied by mothers who are too irresponsible and heartless to take precautions and take responsibility of their actions.
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
A parent is an unreliable source on how they feel towards their own child?? Okay maybe a statistic showing a correlation to those who almost aborted and those convicted of child abuse could possible back up your claim but it is still a weak and ridiculous claim at best. Even parents who have gave their children up for adoption have not regretted the decision to have their children.
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
BackCommander
@tonyrobinson "I however have never met a mother who regrets not having an abortion." Because a mother who regrets not getting an abortion tells the child, not everyone else. When a woman has a child she is flooded with a ridiculous amount of hormones that pretty much ensure that she loves it no matter what, until that wears off, which it usually doesn't, they're kind of an unreliable source on how they ACTUALLY feel about their children.
Posted by akaRay 2 months ago
akaRay
How about you actually explain to me how my argument is weak, and how my first trimester argument goes against science? I said that the fetus is incapable of existing without the mother's womb and should not be regarded as a separate entity, nothing about the fetus' life beginning.
It's a scientific fact that life begins at conception, but the right to life does not imply the right to use somebody else's body or the right to threaten somebody else's life. I'm beginning to question whether or not you've even read anything beyond the first paragraph of my round 1 argument.
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
Pro is making some very poorly thought out arguments for abortion. Pro's whole "most happen in the first trimester argument is weak at best". Is also goes against science. Pro: at what point do you believe life begins??
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
It is not hard to find someone who regrets the abortion they had. I however have never met a mother who regrets not having an abortion.
"Choose Life You Won't Regret It" Your child might even thank you for it.
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