The Instigator
Kelisitaan
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Matpat
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 691 times Debate No: 98415
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

Kelisitaan

Pro

A woman has the right to choose what to do with her own body.
Matpat

Con

The fetus, or unborn baby, is not part of the woman's body, it is a separate organism.
Debate Round No. 1
Kelisitaan

Pro

Even assuming what Con says is true (which I disagree with), the argument is very simple. The fetus needs the body of the mother to survive. If human A needs a part of human B to survive, e.g. a kidney transplant, it is entirely up to human B whether or not he wants to give human A a kidney. Even if human B is dying and his kidneys will rot with him, he decides what to do with his own body.

A fetus needs a mother's body to survive. If the mother does not want to let the fetus use her body, it doesn't have to.
Matpat

Con

Destroying a fetus is still destroying life. A fetus is still a human life, and killing it is first degree murder.
I mean, killing a fetus is the same as killing a baby. A baby is a baby, whether in development or born.
Debate Round No. 2
Kelisitaan

Pro

A fetus is not a human. A fetus has the POTENTIAL to become a human, but it is not a human. A sperm is not human either. A sperm has the POTENTIAL to become a human, but it is not a human.

A caterpillar is not a butterfly. A caterpillar can BECOME a butterfly, but it is not a butterfly. A baby girl is not a teenage girl. A baby girl can BECOME a teenage girl, but it is not a teenage girl.

A fetus is not human. Murder only applies to humans. Killing a fetus is not murder because murder only applies to humans.

If a man needs a part of my body to survive and I don't give it to him, I am not murdering it. Not letting a fetus use someone else's body against her will is not murder.

If a mother kills her BABY, it's murder, because the baby doesn't need the mother's body to survive.

Not letting a fetus use a mother's body against her will is not murder. It's simply respecting a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. if a woman doesn't want a fetus to use her body to survive, it's her right to do so.
Matpat

Con

OMG!!! You are SO stubborn.
And you technically are cheating because you are saying basically the exact same things you said in your other abortion argument.

Anyway, although a fetus "is not a human", it has LIFE. A fetus has HUMAN LIFE. They live. They breathe. Have you heard the term, "Not helping someone is the same as hurting them?" No? I can see that.

I implore you. Reconsider. Abortion is the brutal ending to a life. What if Einstein's mother aborted him? Where would we be today?

A fetus is considered biologically, scientifically, and obviously a human body, a human life.

And if you don't want babies, then don't get married and don't have sex.

Abortion is murder, whether you like it or not.

Case closed.

You, sir, or ma'am, are the murderer. the cruel instigator of the abrupt end of a life so beautiful.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by cloebowie 1 year ago
cloebowie
I rearranged my votes, if that's okay.

I didn't know you could do that, but I did it, so I guess you can.
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
Jo, I dunno, how do adopted babies survive without their mother? Is this a serious question? A baby does not need its mother to survive.
Posted by jo154676 1 year ago
jo154676
Pro's last argument "If a mother kills her baby then it is not murder because the baby doesn't rely on the mother to live."

What? How is a baby supposed to feed itself, provide itself milk, or survive without the mother there? Also the baby still uses the mother's immune system until it is 6 months old, should the mother still kill it then?
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
Arpost, why do you consistently avoid all of the questions I ask you? I've answered EVERY single question/point of yours. Why are you dodging mine?

Most of that information is irrelevant. And here is a question to you: a chimp also resembles a human was well. Are chimps human?
Posted by arpost 1 year ago
arpost
http://www.returnofkings.com...
Shocking Statistics
A whopping 40% of unwanted pregnancies end in abortion, and 1 in 5 pregnancies overall end in abortion in the United States. This, in the richest country in the world where social welfare programs, child support, adoption, and other means are readily available to women who choose life. Not to mention the importance of selecting the right male to be the father before conception, a process that used to be of utmost importance to families before the nuclear family was torn apart by feminism and the welfare state.

Around 89% of all abortions are performed in the first trimester, but even these methods involve babies that are more developed than most people think.

That still leaves a full 1 in 10 abortions that are performed in the second and third trimesters, and as you will see those methods are far more disturbing. At the federal level, abortion is legal through all nine months of pregnancy. Some states have restrictions on abortion after the first trimester, while others do not.

Less than 1% of all abortions are performed because of rape or incest, striking down one of the feminists" main arguments for abortion.

Most women don"t find out they"re pregnant until week five or six of the pregnancy, and even-even as early as eight to nine weeks into the pregnancy the embryo is readily recognizable as a human being. By 12 weeks or near the end of the first trimester, the then fetus is undeniably human in appearance.

Weeks 8-10, and 12 of pregnancy
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
"What about Siamese twins that survive to adulthood who have two separate heads and brains but have only one heart. In most cases, both will die if they are separated. Are you saying that one of the twins is not human? If they are not human what are they, after all, they cannot survive on their own."

That is not the definition of human. There are plenty of humans who can't survive on their own. A fetus isn't "not a human" because it can't survive on its own; it's not a human because it doesn't possess almost all of the qualities that human beings possess. That is why it's not human.

Here is a question for you: if a fetus IS a human, why is age counted from the baby's birth, rather than from the start of the fetus?
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
No arpost, because in this case, that heart belongs to BOTH of them, not just one of them. Siamese twins SHARE the heart; it is not the property of only one of them.
Posted by arpost 1 year ago
arpost
So if one of the Siamese twins did not want its sibling to share his heart any longer and suffocated him, would that be murder? After all he has a right to choose.
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
But, even if the fetus IS human (which it's not) it's still not murder. As I explained in the debate, it's not murder to not let another living thing use your body. Is it murder to not give someone a kidney who needs one? Is it murder to not give someone food who is dying of hunger? It may be cruel perhaps, but not letting a fetus use someone else's body is not murder.

As for einstein, the following question could be asked as well: What if Hitler's parents decided to have an abortion? Furthermore, in all seriousness, the world would have survived just fine without einstein. In fact, it is extremely probable that someone would have discovered what einstein had discovered soon after he had. Einstein was simply the first person to discover it, just as Newton was the first person to discover his laws. If he hadn't discovered it, someone else would have.

Furthermore, just because something is "living" or "breathing" does not make it human. A fetus in the normal stages has none of the defining human features. It has no legs, no arms, no mouth. It does not eat normally, cry, speak, walk, etc. An ant lives and breathes as well. Is an ant human? What about a dog?
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
It's not cheating to use arguments multiple times. Just saying.

Anyways, Pro's entire argument is "Let it be because it's choice". Con's argument of "the fetus is a baby", doesn't really convince me, as he doesn't back it up. But Pro doesn't do a good job of showing the fetus isn't human either.

But the whole "What if Einstein was aborted" thing was a point, but presented late, with no clear impact.

So I'm at this question: "Is the fetus human?" If the fetus is human, abortion is murder. But if it isn't human, then the woman would go through abortion, and it isn't murder. None of the debaters answers this question well, so it ends in Deadlock, or rather a draw. No one seems to be winning this.
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