The Instigator
Pastafarian
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
CAPLlock
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

Abraham Lincoln cared about the Union more than slaves

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Pastafarian
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,360 times Debate No: 14742
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (12)
Votes (4)

 

Pastafarian

Pro

First of all im only 13 and I SUCK at debating

Let's keep it nice :)

When we think of Abraham Lincoln we usually think that he is well-known for freeing the slaves in the United States. We see him as a strong leader who wanted to abolish slavery from the start of his presidency. However, there is another side of Lincoln that isn't well-known. He felt that restoring the Union was much more important that freeing the slaves.
At the beginning of Lincoln's presidency, he wanted reunification at any cost. He strove to avoid a civil war over the issue of slavery and urged to seceded states to rejoin the rejoin the Union. He felt strongly that saving the Union was his primary job. In his inaugural address, he stated, You have no oath registered in Heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one to ‘preserve, protect and defend' it. Lincoln felt that seceding from the Union was an illegal act, and it was his job to get the states back in the Union. Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery, but at this point in his presidency, he didn't want to interfere with pre-existing slavery.
CAPLlock

Con

I will assume we're talking about the civil war.
Abraham, trying to save the union, was the first reason why we were fighting. Yes, we WERE fighting to save the union, but this was not possible with many variables, such as:
Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
States versus federal rights.
and
The election of Abraham Lincoln.
so its not fair to say the title it has faults. here's a quote
My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."
This means although save the union was a higher cause, he couldn't freed the slaves. what then?

Debate Round No. 1
Pastafarian

Pro

At the beginning of Lincoln's presidency, he wanted reunification at any cost. He strove to avoid a civil war over the issue of slavery and urged to seceded states to rejoin the rejoin the Union. He felt strongly that saving the Union was his primary job. In his inaugural address, he stated, "You have no oath registered in Heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one to ‘preserve, protect and defend' it. Lincoln felt that seceding from the Union was an illegal act, and it was his job to get the states back in the Union. Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery, but at this point in his presidency, he didn't want to interfere with pre-existing slavery.
On August 14, 1863, Lincoln called a meeting for black leaders at the White House. There he proposed that the slaves could choose voluntary recolonization to Central America and the Caribbean. At that point, he felt that the slaves would be treated better there than in America. The prominent leader Frederick Douglass was angry at hearing Lincoln's plan, and accused him of hypocrisy. Lincoln later realized his mistake, so he changed his mind and sent the navy in 1864 to retrieve the recolonized slaves.
By 1863, Lincoln felt that slavery should be addressed in order to save the Union. Lincoln needed to strike at the heart of the issue – slavery. He began to believe that the preservation of the Union depended, in part, upon the destruction of slavery. He waited for the military victory at Antietem to announce the Emancipation Proclamation which he signed on January 1st, 1863. This document didn't free all slaves, but the ones in the rebel states. He realized that the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't enough because it could be challenged and turned over by Congress
After Lincoln was once again elected in November, 1864, he pushed Congress to pass the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, which would make slavery illegal permanently anywhere in the United States. On January 31, 1865 the Thirteenth Amendment passed. Abolishing slavery was finally achieved after the military victory over the Confederates when Robert E. Lee surrendered at Appomattox, Virginia on April 9th, 1865.
At first, Lincoln wanted only to maintain the Union and not eliminate slavery. Throughout, the war, Lincoln's point of view changed over time. Lincoln eventually found that he had to strike at the heart of the issue, which was slavery. Lincoln progressed from the Emancipation Proclamation, a partial elimination of slavery, to the 13th Amendment, which eliminated slavery permanently in the United States. Lincoln's main purpose was to maintain the Union, and at the end, he found that eliminating slavery was the means to the end.

Thanks for accepting a hard debate..

Cheers, Mate
CAPLlock

Con

That's IS true. But to save the union he had to run the mile. It was his JOB to save the Union. Outside of work I think he knew(by the end of the war) slavery had to be stopped. In fact, the war was basically over when the 13th Amendment happen(this freed ALL slaves). What would happen if slavery never stopped?
Debate Round No. 2
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
CALPlock, voting yourself seven points without an RFD is totally not cool.
Posted by CAPLlock 6 years ago
CAPLlock
the north attacked them first
Posted by jrmurillo09 6 years ago
jrmurillo09
This is a pointless debate, freeing the slaves was a result of the civil war, not the cause of it. Lincoln accepted slavery in the south and felt the fed. gov. had no right to interfere in it. The south, however, felt he was although he only stated the Constitution did not support the institution. Pro wins
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
Fried, you have a point, but if Lincoln saw the Union as the ends and slaves as the means, which did he care about more?
Posted by vardas0antras 6 years ago
vardas0antras
How did you make the "election of Abraham Lincoln." part blue and underlined with blue dots ?
Posted by Fried_Out_Combie 6 years ago
Fried_Out_Combie
The only way that Lincoln was truly going to be able to save the Union is if he solved or attmepted to solve slavery. Although it wasn't the only factor, it did play a humoungous role in the seperation of our nation.
"....Lincoln believed that if he could prevent the expansion of slavery into the federal territories and prevail upon state legislatures to accept gradual, compensated emancipation, he could shrink slavery, making it uneconomical and place it back on the eventual road to extinction that he believed the Founders had envisioned. The outbreak of war derailed the original version of his grand scheme, but even after the war began, Lincoln believed that if he could convince the legislatures of the loyal slave states to agree to compensated emancipation, he could end the rebellion, restore the Union, and begin the end of slavery. He reasoned that the combination of military success against the Confederacy and compensated emancipation in the loyal slave states would lead to the collapse of the Confederacy, which had staked its hopes on eventually incorporating the so-called border states....."

I mean of course as President Lincoln is going to focus on restoring the Union as a good president should. But the only way he was going to be able to do that was if he solved the slavery problem.
Posted by resolutionsmasher 6 years ago
resolutionsmasher
whoever takes this has his work cut out for him, i'd consider revising the topic.
Lincoln is too much of a defined character for any debate to be had of him
Try a character like Alexander Hamilton. Now that's a loaded topic.
Posted by lewis20 6 years ago
lewis20
Ya I'd be interested to see if there is even an argument to be made.
Posted by 1stLordofTheVenerability 6 years ago
1stLordofTheVenerability
This is indubitably true - Con will have fun attempting to make a case. I bet Brian could do it.
Posted by thedude346 6 years ago
thedude346
Lincoln himself said, "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

Not really debatable, the guy disliked slavery from the start, but never felt that blacks and whites were equal, and by no means was an abolitionist, until the time came.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by davidhancock 6 years ago
davidhancock
PastafarianCAPLlockTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ok pity vote lol
Vote Placed by CAPLlock 6 years ago
CAPLlock
PastafarianCAPLlockTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
PastafarianCAPLlockTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had better conduct, not sumbitting such an effortless last round. Pro's capitalization was much better. While Pro used historical facts to back up his arguments, Con used speculation, which is much weaker. Neither side used sources.
Vote Placed by Cobo 6 years ago
Cobo
PastafarianCAPLlockTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: 1.Con vote bomb himself 2.Pro had better agruements