The Instigator
jp_porwisz10
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Romanii
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Abraham Lincoln or George Washington? (Lincoln is pro, Washington is con)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Romanii
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/5/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,743 times Debate No: 54075
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

jp_porwisz10

Pro

Round 1: Opening statements
Round 2: Facts/Argument
Round 3: Facts/Argument
Round 4: Closing statements
I look forward to my opponents opening argument. Good luck
Romanii

Con

I accept this debate.

I will be arguing that George Washington was "better" than Abraham Lincoln.

Good luck to my opponent!
Debate Round No. 1
jp_porwisz10

Pro

Abraham Lincoln. He suffered through so much. Losing almost all of his children. Having his country be split into two parts and fight a war. Yet he persevered. He went on and made our country whole again. Without Lincoln, we would still be split into two parts.
Romanii

Con

Thanks to my opponent for his...uh....brief argument...

To anyone reading: I did not mean to noob-snipe this... I had been fully expecting to have an actual debate, here; in order to avoid looking like a noob-sniper, I will formulate my argument as if this was still an actual debate.

.

CONTENTIONS

C1) Military Background

During the American Revolution, George Washington used his great skill as a military strategist to win a number of important battles, most notably the Battle of Yorktown, the final battle which caused the British to surrender to the Americans, setting the stage for American independence [1]. Without George Washington, USA would never have become a country.

C2) Writing the Constitution

George Washington was elected to lead the 1787 conference in which the US Constitution was written [2]. His leadership and there was central in allowing the attendees to be so successful in their hashing out of the document which would become the foundation of American government and society. George Washington played a large role in the creation of our Constitution.

C3) Presidential Career

First of all, George Washington is the ONLY president in American history to get unanimously elected by the electoral college, and he did it not once, but twice! Such popular support clearly shows that he was one of America's best presidents [3].
Not only that, but as the first US president, he had a huge responsibility; his actions basically determined the future of the country, and he did a wonderful job, with his many of his exemplary executive actions becoming precedents that would be followed by many future US presidents to come. A few examples of this include him selecting a presidential cabinet to help make his office stronger, giving the first State of the Union address, and stepping down from power himself after serving two terms [4].

C4) Foresight

George Washington, in his 1796 farewell address demonstrated incredible foresight, predicting problems that we are now facing over 200 years later, such as the division caused by the formation of political parties and the unnecessary trouble caused by interfering in other countries' affairs. He predicted these problems and gave advice (that we never took) to avoid them in what now seems like an almost prophetic manner [5].

I rest my case.

.

REBUTTALS

R1) Suffering

Pro argues that the suffering Lincoln has endured makes him superior to George Washington.
However, suffering is not an effective standard for judging greatness. All humans suffer; the amount of suffering they go through has nothing to do with their own abilities or skills. The fact that Abraham Lincoln has suffered proves nothing.

R2) US Civil War

Pro argues that Lincoln single-handedly reunited the United States after its split during the Civil War.
However, this is obviously false; just because he was president during the US Civil War does not mean the country could not have been reunited without him.
The victories by General Ulysses S. Grant over the Confederacy are what caused the South the have to surrender to the Union [6]. Additionally, Lincoln got assassinated before the Reconstruction process even got started, yet that was when the majority of the reunification process actually happened [7].
It is very evident that, though Lincoln's leadership throughout the Civil War was great, the claim that "without Lincoln, we would still be split into two parts." is a huge over-simplification which is not at all based in reality.

.

CONCLUSION

I have put forth two solid contentions supporting the idea that George Washington was "better" than Abraham Lincoln, as well as refuted both of Pro's points.

Sources
[1] http://www.americaslibrary.gov...
[2] http://www.mountvernon.org...
[3] http://www.history.com...
[4] http://www.mountvernon.org...
[5] http://avalon.law.yale.edu...
[6] http://www.civilwar.org...
[7] http://www.ushistory.org...
Debate Round No. 2
jp_porwisz10

Pro

Im not saying Washington is bad, heck I even think he was a great president.





Secession of America


Washington created this country, and he should thank Lincoln for saving it. I am not saying Lincoln did this single handedly (Because he had the help og U.S. Grant and McClellan), but he did a main role. No one has to go through the split of a country, and he showed great courage under pressure, even going through clinical depression.



Emancipation Proclamation

A man has guts to say something is illegal countrywide. He was constantley bashed for freeing the slaves because that was slave owners only way to make money. Slavery was a brutal time in our history, and I am happy he abloshied it. Imagine you being hated by half the country. Did Washington have to endure that? I don't think so.


The Civil War


Now, Washington did have an important role in American history. He gained our independence from Britain and even fought a war to get it. But did he suffer 620,000 deaths on both sides? Lincoln overcame this hurdle to win the Civil War, and in the end, he didn't leave the South in ruins, he began the Reconstruction Era, which in my opnion, is what a great president does.







Romanii

Con

Pro seems to be basing his entire case off of nothing but sympathy for Lincoln over the suffering he had to endure (e.g. nervous breakdowns, being hated by some, lots of causalities in the Civil War) .
Again, I will assert that suffering does not equate to greatness, especially when that suffering does not directly achieve anything productive. There are millions of people throughout history who have endured brutal torture and have had their entire families murdered, yet the majority of these people are nameless and faceless to us.
Just because Lincoln suffered a lot more than Washington does not in any way mean that he is greater than him.

Also, Pro seems to have conceded all of my arguments that objectively pointed out George Washington's virtues and accomplishments...
Debate Round No. 3
jp_porwisz10

Pro

" I will assert that suffering does not equate to greatness, especially when that suffering does not directly achieve anything productive"

My opponent thinks that suffering does not achieve anything. Lincoln accomplished so much, such saving this country from seccesion, aboloshing slavery, won a war with help, and restorated the South. This is man who saved us. Without Lincoln, I would be living in the Union, not the great United States of America. When you look at a picture of Lincoln, you think of a man who pereservered through everything to save America. Thank you for this debate.
Romanii

Con

"My opponent thinks that suffering does not achieve anything. Lincoln accomplished so much..."

Pro has still failed to show that the suffering Lincoln endured was actually essential to the achievement of his feats.

"Without Lincoln, I would be living in the Union, not the great United States of America."

I showed that Lincoln really didn't play a huge role in reuniting the Union. The generals who served in the Civil War and the presidents who served after him during the Reconstruction era played a much bigger role than Lincoln in "saving America".

Conclusions

1) Pro has not fulfilled his Burden of Proof at all. All his arguments for the superiority of Abraham Lincoln over George Washington are non-conclusive, and/or factually inaccurate.

2) I have clearly shown that George Washington was one of the greatest if not THE greatest figure in history.

Vote Con.

P.S. Apologies to Abraham Lincoln if I have accidentally offended him during the course of this debate <3
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Romanii 3 years ago
Romanii
Clarification: when I say "better", I mean "more accomplished", or something along those lines.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by NiamC 3 years ago
NiamC
jp_porwisz10RomaniiTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had much more extended and structured arguments. Pros argument points weren't as long as it should have been.
Vote Placed by ESocialBookworm 3 years ago
ESocialBookworm
jp_porwisz10RomaniiTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made better, stronger arguments while Pro relied mostly on sympathy for Lincoln. Con also used a source while Pro had none.
Vote Placed by PeacefulChaos 3 years ago
PeacefulChaos
jp_porwisz10RomaniiTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I think Romanii could've demonstrated how Lincoln acted virtually like a dictator during the Civil War, but he didn't really need to. His arguments were sufficient enough to debunk Pro's. Interesting debate.
Vote Placed by bettabreeder 3 years ago
bettabreeder
jp_porwisz10RomaniiTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: here ya'll go