The Instigator
holyscoop
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Kumquatodor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

According to Christianity, babies will burn in hell.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/30/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 958 times Debate No: 35191
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

holyscoop

Pro

In this debate I wish to contest the idea that according to Christianity babies will not burn in hell. I don't care to know the true worldview of my opponent for it is irrelevant to this debate. This site is still new to me so forgive me for any errors I make along the way. Thanks! I will wait for my opponent to accept.
Kumquatodor

Con

I accept.

I suggest that the next debate you start, you outline how the rounds will work.
Debate Round No. 1
holyscoop

Pro

Thank you! I'm very new here and I want to learn from some real pros! xD

My Arguement




My argument is fairly simple. It's based off several biblical texts. Let's look at some guidelines for how to be accepted into heaven, according to the bible.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. -John 3:18

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:16

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. -Romans 10:9

From these verses I'll use a syllagism.

Premiss 1: All christians go to heaven.
Premiss 2: Anyone who is not a christian goes to hell.
Premiss 3: Premiss 1 and 2 relate to all human beings.
Premiss 4: Babies are human beings.
Premiss 5: Babies are incapable of declaring with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord".
Premiss 6: Babies are not christians.
Premiss: 7: Babies will burn in hell.

I will presuppose that my opponent will object primarily to premiss 3. My reason for saying all human beings are subject to the tests described in the verses above are words like: whoever and no one. The verses do not describe beings who are above a certain age or who have reasonable intellectual function. It describes all humans unless con can prove otherwise.



Kumquatodor

Con

Thank you.

The Relation of Sin to Babies
"The one who sins is the one who will be put to death. A son will not be punished for his father’s sins, and a father will not be punished for his son’s sins. A good man’s goodness belongs to him alone, and a bad man’s evil belongs to him alone."---Ezekiel 18:20.
This is very important. It shows that we aren't held accountable for Adam's and Eve's sin. We are judged independently of others. Babies do not sin.


Judgement
"For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."--Matthew 7:2

What measure of judgement do babies use? They do not judge. So this means that God, at the very least, does not judge babies.


"13 And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”"---Matthew 10:13-15



I have shown that, because babies don't sin and don't judge, they will not be thrown in Hell.
Debate Round No. 2
holyscoop

Pro

After I saw that I didn't have a conclusion to my syllogism I smacked my head. Premiss 7 should have been my conclusion.


"The one who sins is the one who will be put to death. A son will not be punished for his father’s sins, and a father will not be punished for his son’s sins. A good man’s goodness belongs to him alone, and a bad man’s evil belongs to him alone."---Ezekiel 18:20.

This verse is in direct contradiction to several other verses.

"No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."---Deuteronomy 23:2


"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."---Exodus 20:5

You also offered Matthew 10:13-15.

"13 And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”"---Matthew 10:13-15


This verse is directly talking about children. This debate is about infants.


Kumquatodor

Con

You"After I saw that I didn't have a conclusion to my syllogism I smacked my head. Premiss 7 should have been my conclusion."
Everyone makes mistakes.


"No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."---Deuteronomy 23:2

This does not mean God blames these decendance; This verse is also an inaccurate account of God's plan. Jesus died so everyone might enter heaven, He advocated the ideas put forth in the verse I gave and made it the law.

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."---Exodus 20:5
Any person can choose to worship (insert deity here). This is blamed on the father, as they taught the children the wicked ways. They would be punished for choosing to worship the wrong figure. And Jesus made forgiveness the standard model. Even if your idea is right, it has been different since Jesus died.

This verse is directly talking about children. This debate is about infants.
What is the difference? If the answer is "kid's can ask for salvation", is a 2-year-old considered a child?





You dropped my argument about judgement.
Debate Round No. 3
holyscoop

Pro

holyscoop forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
holyscoop

Pro

holyscoop forfeited this round.
Kumquatodor

Con

I believe my opponent has abandoned his account...
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by sweetbreeze 3 years ago
sweetbreeze
"My Arguement"

Pro spelt "Argument" wrong.
Posted by jonw 3 years ago
jonw
Romans 1:19-20 is describing why people are without excuse. Paul is describing the reasoning behind people being condemned for their unbelief. He is not saying that because they can use their sense of sight therefore they are condemned. His point is obviously that they see and yet do not seek him. It seems obvious that babies do not have the reasoning power necessary to be able to make this rational decision and are therefore with excuse. You are correct that recognizing God as the creator of all things is not enough to save someone it is however, according to Paul, enough to condemn them.
Posted by holyscoop 3 years ago
holyscoop
"Therefore, THEY are without excuse."

Who is to say that the babies are unable to perceive God's great creation? That have basic senses. Their eyes can function. Besides this, being able to perceive God's creation has nothing to do with salvation.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."--- James 2:19
Posted by jonw 3 years ago
jonw
Romans 1:19-20:
For what can be known about God is plain to them [that is, to mankind] because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. Therefore, they are without excuse.

The "Therefore" is the key. Infants and others will mental disabilities have an excuse.

http://www.desiringgod.org...
No votes have been placed for this debate.