The Instigator
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0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
8 Points

According to History, Earthy Evidence and Scripture, Jesus is the Messiah! Atheist are wrong.

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 800 times Debate No: 44888
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (18)
Votes (2)




The bible is a witness of truth. If rightly divided. And eternal document that will stand forever. Unlike Darwin and his theory of evolution. Which is just wrong. I challenge my opponent to prove that Christ who died on a cross, born a virgin, and who was in Eden ,did not fulfil all the prophecies leading to the cross, or never existed. The same One who promised to return to the Mt. Olives.


We learned about Jesus from the Bible, so the story of Jesus (with all its details) would be true if the Bible was true, what is something that no one can prove without raising doubts. The Bible is a ancient document like many others, which suffered many modifications due to the translations, which was written and rewritten many times, by many people who didn't comprehend many phenomena happening around them and were influenced by the prejudices of their time. It also has a lot of contradictions and weird information that don't make sense. Like other ancient documents, the Bible brings us some historical facts from the past (immigration movements, for example), but even these cannot be treated as definitive proofs, only as a guidance to guess what happened in the past.
We cannot believe 100% in everything we read without knowing something about the writer, how reliable he or she was, and which interests he or she could have. If these days we know we should not trust entirely even newspapers and scientific papers because there may be big interests behind them, I don't see as the majority of the population can take the Bible literally as you want.
The Darwin theory is being largely accepted because it makes sense with many things we see with our own eyes everyday, because it has been corroborated by medicine and biology, because it has showed results and, above all, because it was not imposed as a fact. Darwin theory is in continuous evolution and it is open to everybody who want to improve it (what does not happen in the case of the Bible).
Debate Round No. 1


I would like to thank my opponent for accepting! However I must begin addressing your assertion of "WE". Because you seem to be speaking for all Christians or for the bible as a whole. I do not know where you learned nor from who or what.

You call the life and times of Jesus Christ a "story"?
I say that the bible is a record of fact that Christ walked the earth.

You asked and quoted: (what is something that no one can prove without raising doubts. The Bible is a ancient document like many others,)
I refute that totally. The bible is unlike any ancient document. No other document/book is given away free in every hotel in America= One Nation Under GOD! Making it quite unique. The bible is the record of God=Adam/Christ virgin born, His Family=Eve=Israel, and their impact on the earth past, present and future.
One can doubt gravity or one can prove it by jumping off a bridge as well.

I agree that modifications due to translations did occur. But all an intelligent reader needs to do is refer back to the Hebrew. Because that is a fixed language and culture.
Example: The bible speaks of unicorns.
(Found 9 times in 9 verses)
Num_23:22, God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Num_24:8, God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
Deu_33:17, His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
God did not create a flying horse with one horn.
Strongs#7214=wild bull

I say if you think the bible has contradiction and weird information then you, did not refer back to the Hebrew from whatever translation you where given.

The bible is written by 40 different men. Of one family! All descendants of Adam the first Jew. Who returned via virgin and hung on a cross. I know quite a bit about the writer of the bible.

You embrace Darwin's theory=idea because it makes sense to you!
You nor Darwin has the mind of God...............
Isa_55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa_55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

If Darwin is correct then why is nothing evolving now? That we can see with our own eyes? I refute your assumption that Darwinism is corroborated by anything but high priced babbling lies.

I bible is full of wisdom. Men of your science and biology thought that the earth was flat. Meaning if you went too far you would fall off. Science fact.

Wisdom speaks: Isa_40:22, It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

If science is so smart? How did the Wise Men and Shepherd Kings travel a two year journey to see the child Jesus? Herod's scientist and wise men were clueless.

I say Darwin not so smart, and anyone who trusts him.

Mat_2:1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat_2:2, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mat_2:3, When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
Mat_2:4, And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Mat_2:5, And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Mat_2:6, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Mat_2:7, Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
Mat_2:8, And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
Mat_2:9, When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
Mat_2:10, When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
Mat_2:11, And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Mat_2:12, And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

I find it interesting that man thinks he made himself!
Isa_29:15, Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isa_29:16, Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Isa_17:7, At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

Isa_45:11, Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

The bible proves itself through prophecy!
Isa_40:28, Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa_41:22, Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Darwin did not tell us about current event happening in Syria!
Isa_17:1, The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Isa_17:3, The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.
Jer_49:23, Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad: for they have heard evil tidings: they are fainthearted; there is sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.
Jer_49:24, Damascus is waxed feeble, and turneth herself to flee, and fear hath seized on her: anguish and sorrows have taken her, as a woman in travail.
Jer_49:27, And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall consume the palaces of Benhadad.

Did science tell us this about Egypt? Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

Isa_19:2, And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.
Isa_19:3, And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
Isa_19:4, And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.

See God told you so!
Eze_12:2, Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.


I said "we" meaning "all the humanity". All the humanity learned about Jesus through the Bible. That is all.

It doesn't matter how many times you affirm that the Bible is made only of facts. This is your opinion. It doesn't matter the Bible is given away freely in every hotel. It doesn't matter whether your or my country was founded by christians. Nothing of it proofs the Bible is 100% true.

And even if Hebrew language has not changed (what I doubt), it is not sufficient. Those who wrote the Bible could have changed the texts over the time and it is not possible to affirm now it didn't happen. Above all, they wrote it according to their point of view. In a war, for example, enemies have different points of view, and each side consider itself right while the other side is wrong. Someone from outside cannot judge the situation without knowing all sides, and the Bible gives us the point of view of one side only.

About the evolution theory created by Darwin, I see you don't understand it. The evolution is a slow process which can take thousands of years to create big modifications as new or stronger species, and it makes total sense when thinking on genetics . It is slow even more among animals which don't reproduce in the same velocity as plants, fungi, virus and bacteria. See the problems that the evolution of virus has caused recently, as the Avian Influenza. And since the ancient times men have already taken advantage of crossings among varieties of plants and animals to produce stronger ones. What you eat at your house and in restaurants is a result of it.

About the contradictions in Bible, I meant more complex things. For example, in one page your god incites violence and war, while in the other page violence is unacceptable and leads to the wrong way. This is a big contradiction.

And science has total freedom to evolve. Nobody has the authority to put limits on science evolution or to affirm something without proofs. And even with proofs, any scientist can be criticized by the others with total freedom when having rational reasons. Once we really thought world was flat, in the same way once we thought the sun revolves around the Earth. And it was a scientist (Galileo) who proposed that the Earth revolves around the sun, and then the church prohibited him from going ahead with this idea.

And about profecies, I dont see that. Wars and fights have happened in the same places and sometimes even for similar reasons since the beginning of humanity. Egypt and Syria have gone through many wars in their history. And the Bible is talking about idols, the ancient polytheist religion of egyptians. It has nothing to do with the war of these days. The Bible describes wars from the past only.
Debate Round No. 2


My opponent is now speaking for all of humanity???????? Did Islam learn about Jesus through the bible too? Or is that just more wrong opinion? Because in reality all other forms of religions and most holy books have their own explanation of Jesus Christ.

You affirm Darwin's Theory as fact. By calling one's man's IDEA into evolutionary science. You say that Darwin created "Evolution" . No Darwin wrote a paper and had a theory. Then man did the rest to remove the Creator from the mind of mankind. You seem to worship Darwin as god, and his flawed ideas, giving him credit for CREATING anything, when he created nothing. He just gave his opinion about what was already there. Much like how the account of Adam/The Bible,
His family=Israel, and their impact on the earth was turned into over 43,000 different Christian religions, all preaching a different Jesus.
I assert that you just again made that up. Your idea of a slow process has seemed to stopped because nothing is changing now. So now my opponent is saying maggots turned to monkeys over thousands of years then those monkeys became the many races that exist today. Yet your assertion that just six thousand years of recorded history means. Monkeys learned to write and record history, build houses and wear clothes? Unless a man dressed an animal, otherwise their nature was created to be naked by God. So it is to this day. I will believe Darwin when birds learn to fly airplanes.
I see you do not understand the bible either! Because it was not written to ALL OF HUMANITY. It was written to the family of God. Means Jew First. Remember that Christ came to His own family first. Then salvation was opened up to the Gentiles=The Rest of All of Humanity.
Rom_1:16, For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom_2:9, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom_2:10, But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Your idea of contradictions again proves that you did not refer back to the Hebrew and are just babbling modern day meaningless rhetoric. You discount the bible saying what Galileo proposed. Yet Galileo was put in jail for saying the science of his day was wrong. Much like how my opponent mocks the bible.

I agree that the bible does not consider all views of humanity. Because the bible is not asking mans permission. The declares HE IS GOD. I AM THAT I AM.
I will ask my opponent to tell the World when Jesus Christ fought a battle against all the nations of the world. Your ending statement declared biblical wars are all in the past. I say that is a gross error or a bold faced lie. You choose.
"Zec 14:1 Behold the day of the LORD cometh and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth and fight against those nations as when he fought in the day of battle. Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives which is before Jerusalem on the east and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south. "
Explain why two TV stations have purchased land near the Mount of Olives, withTV cameras,and full crews, waiting on Jesus/ Messiah.

Or please explain how the bible foretold about Israel being destoryed and rebuild in the latter days. Did Great Britain act alone to restore Israel. Or is the fact that Queen of England claims to be Adamic and a descendant of King David's royal bloodline?
I await for your response.


I would like to ask you to have respect for what I wrote and don't distort it. It only makes me suspect that you are really crazy or are using this discussion to have some kind of fun. In fact I already expected for it, but I decided to try to see if some religious extremist could develop a worthy discussion.

Yes, I believe Darwin theory is true (with the same right you believe that god and Jesus are true). But I didn't say Darwin created evolution, and I dont worship Darwin or anybody else. It is ridiculous. This is another reason why I became atheist, because worshiping anything is ridiculous for me.

And if you tell that I should read the Bible to have this discussion, I tell you to read about evolution theory. At least it is not in Hebrew. First of all, we are precisely the primates who came to think and speak. This evolution took more than 1 million years, so you can't expect to see anything big happening in only 2.000 years. Even more because there has been a great quantity of high quality scientists only in the last 300 years.

And if you had studied evolution seriously, you would know that this is not a one way process. Evolution doesn't lead necessarily to intelligence and ability to speak. Evolution occurs by the survival of the most adapted, and intelligence is not by itself sufficient to guarantee the survival of any being.

About Israel, it has been destroyed and reconstructed many times, and I doubt we will not see it happening again. As I said, wars like this have happened in the same places and for similar reasons through all history. And what the Queen of England claims or who is putting cameras where to wait for some messiah also prove nothing. There are crazy people everywhere saying that they themselves saw or are some messiah or prophet. This kind of madness occurs in all religions, and there are also those who take advantage of innocent and fanatic people to make money.

About the contradictions, the proverb 16:29 says "A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path that is not good" . And you mentioned by yourself other excerpts from Bible in which god incites violence. This is a clear contradiction to me.

And Galileo was put in jail for defending his ideas (which proved to be right) instead of accepting what the church imposed as the truth (like you imposing the Bible and Jesus). Therefore, if you are comparing me to Galileo, this is a true compliment for me.
Debate Round No. 3


No matter how many times you assert that all of humanity learned about Jesus from the bible is again a gross error or a lie. Most other religions tell their masses what they need to know about the Christ of the bible.

For the record I am not here to earn your respect. You may evaluate my mental ability or judge my understanding of the simple truth of God"s Word. As for my religion I have none. Shows again you are not so smart and lack understanding slandering me by calling me and religious extremest! Is that your strategy for lack of intelligent answers?

Example: Islam acknowledges Adam and Abraham. But Jesus was a great teacher, and did die on the cross, but the disciples sole His body.
So Again! I refute your statement of All Humanity learned about Christ from the bible. That is a lie.

You can play word games all you want. My opponent posted:
'About the evolution theory created by Darwin, I see you don't understand it. The evolution is a slow process which can take thousands of years to create big modifications as new or stronger species, and it makes total sense when thinking on genetics . It is slow even more among animals which don't reproduce in the same velocity as plants, fungi, virus and bacteria.'

Yes Israel has quite a history! You still ignore the the fact that not other nations has every regained a homeland after 1000 years. Except God"s special people and His chosen Land! FACT! On earth that you can see!

Nor did you give a good answer for why did the Jewish people evolve around God. Or how did they become God"s people.

How dare you assume that I never went to school! Can you say BIG BANG! I ask you! Who had the matches? I have better sense than that! You can blow up all the junk piles you want, and you will never get one working car, bike, plane or washing machine. Nor will junk evolve into anything, except junk without a designer! Try common sense!

I suggest that before babbling bible without understanding, at least read it!
My opponent posted:
About the contradictions, the proverb 16:29 says "A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path that is not good" . And you mentioned by yourself other excerpts from Bible in which god incites violence. This is a clear contradiction to me.

This one verse taken clearly out of context would only suggest to a fool that violence is OK? Duh? God clearly said THAT IS NOT GOOD!

God know that there are violent men in the world today. And He wants His people to be strong and defends their homes and nations. Sorry not lukewarm religious because I believe in Jesus and understand His Word. No wimps allowed!
1. "Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore ye are of more value than many sparrows. Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword. Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and the daughter against her mother and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
2. Luk_22:35, And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk_22:36, Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk_22:37, For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk_22:38, And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

You finally clown yourself boasting in the wisdom of science babbling against the bible, who is wiser that Darwin who has deceived you!
Your turn.


It doesn't matter for my argument whether there are people who know from Jesus from others books or don't know him at all. I know perfectly that many people in places like China and India have never even seen a Bible. When somebody says humanity it doesn't mean 100% of people mandatorily. The only point that I wanted to show is that the Jesus story and all its details (even more the idea of him as being the god himself and not just another prophet) could be considered true if the Bible was a trustable document. And the Bible shows to be everything but not a trustable document.

All the noisy you are doing only because of what you called "my statement" about humanity proves again you are completely crazy and extremist. You don't need to have a religion to be an extremist. Your ideas are extremists and that is what matter. You could be called simply a christian extremist.

Human evolution took at least 2 millions of years. Check wikipedia and you can see it easily
This is science. I don't need to play with words because there are quantitative data supported by many scientists which can support what I say.
Again, I affirm you have never studied evolution for real. And it doesn't matter for me if the origin of life was not discovered yet. 500 years ago you and other religious fanatics would say that any disease or any natural phenomena was caused by god, and now we can explain the origin and treat most diseases and forecast many natural phenomena. Science improves continuously.

About the violence of your god, I insist on it. According to the Bible, it was him who destructed Sodom and Gomorrah, without saving even the children, who certainly had not commited any sin. This is far from showing god as a pacifist, but as a egocentric who doesn't accept to be put aside. This behaviour is totally contradictory when when thinking how Jesus
preached peace even with enemies.

I think religion can be of great support for many people, can give them life meaning when they can't find it by their own. However, the existence of fanatic and extremists like you is only collaborating to put more people away from christian religion.
Debate Round No. 4


My opponent seems to speak for all of Humanity! America is about self expression and independence is the illusion of USA one nation under God!

I refute your assertion about 'what matters' , are you, the World Judge who decides what is good for everyone?

I am not crazy because I do not agree with you. Your trust of Darwin's 'IDEA' who taught you your maggot to monkey to mathematician, evolutionary historian and record keeper of mankind religion, is insane in my opinion.

Because my opponent can not get his story straight about his meaning of all of humanity if offer this verse:
Jam_1:8, A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Jam_4:8, Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Most who do not trust the bible are angry because of an activity they love to do, Example you mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah. Declaring your opinion over God!

Because I have a working knowledge of the bible you again call me a religious extremest, yet never met me personality.

Are you my Judge?

Why slander me, because you can not give an intelligent answer for your faith in Darwin? Who told you your maggot to monkey religion that you follow and trust.

This debate is about what is actually found on earth not your personal Godless opinion.


Again you insist on what I don"t said. I don"t talk in the name of all humanity. And you are making judgments as much as me or even more. For example, it was you who began this debate saying that atheists are wrong. This is a judgment already.

And it is you who are putting clearly that Jesus and the Bible are the only true. It is you who wants to decide what is good for everybody. On the other side, I have never said atheism is the best for everybody. I have even said that I understand that there are people who needs religion to find a meaning for life. Therefore, you accuse me, but it is you who want to be the "World Judge".

Again, I believe Darwin theory, and I feel no shame for being descendent of a primitive monkey. And neither should you. If god created everything, monkeys are also creatures of god and, therefore, they are perfect! For those who are real appreciators of god creation, there would be no shame for being descendant of a god"s creature.

And more important, I don"t have faith on Darwin. Faith is something that you have when there is no concrete basis to believe something. For example, I have faith on my future despite the possibility dying tomorrow. On the other side, I have concrete basis to believe on Darwin theory. I see evidence of this theory everywhere, on the people around me, when I see a baby who earned characteristics from both parents, when I hear that the production of some crop increased thanks to the crossing of different varieties. This is what I call concrete.

You saying that I have faith on Darwin theory only proves that it is you who cannot give intelligent answers for your faith in the Bible, and then you are trying to disguise it by distorting my answers.

Knowing someone"s ideas is more than sufficient to say if this person is an extremist or not. I have never met Hitler, Stalin or Fidel Castro, but by their ideas I am sure they are/were extremists.

Your last paragraph is the best evidence of your unintelligent answers. The basic idea behind atheism is precisely construct our minds based only on the things that we can find on Earth and in the universe, things that we can observe, feel and examine using trustable methods. Any god is far from being one of these things, and this is why we are atheists. At last, this debate is about who is right, atheists or the Bible. This is in the title that you chose. If I am defending the atheists" side and if I am atheist, OF COURSE MY OPINIONS WILL BE GODLESS. This is more than OBVIOUS. Were you expecting to have this debate with a christian?
Debate Round No. 5
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Quoting Bible means nothing:
The Gospels are not even the true words and deeds of Jesus, because they were written over 25 years after his death, where almost none of his disciples were still alive. No disciples were alive when Luke and John were written. None of the Gospels came from Matthew, Mark, Luke nor John.
They were written by unknown writers who were not disciples.
Jesus's disciples were illiterate Aramaic speaking dudes.
The Gospels were written in Ancient Greek, which was foreign to his disciples.
So even if a disciple lived to 50+ which is unlikely, since they were persecuted and the average life expectancy in the time of Jesus was 45, it is most unlikely any disciples were alive when the Gospels were written. They all came from second hand (hearsay) comments.
Nobody writing the Gospels was present at the Sermon on the mount, so nobody knew what Jesus really said.
There is no evidence that Jesus performed even one single miracle.
there is no evidence that Jesus was crucified on a cross,
There is no evidence for the Resurrection if Jesus.

The only thing Jesus appeared to have done is introduce Buddhist Teachings into Judaism.
That is all Jesus ever achieved.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
I would like to thank those who voted and commented their honest feelings.
I pity America the God-less nation who has turned their back on the God who gave them freedom.
Guess what? God is no longer with America! Atheist win! Gay's and pedophiles rule the religious right! America is so stupid the love it so! NSA is replacing the three stage check and balance system that America used to be.
Rom_1:20, For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom_1:21, Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom_1:22, Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom_1:23, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom_1:24, Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom_1:25, Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
" Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:21 Because that when they knew God they glorified him not as God neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise they became fools Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man and to birds and fourfooted beasts and creeping things. Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. "
Sagey if alone on a island. Your only instructions is a STORY OF THE 3 LITTLE PIGS. What you would do is: wander blindly into the woods, looking for houses made by hogs. I using God given common sense, will work up to a stone of brick shelter.

For the record I never debate to win votes, only to plant seeds of truth. While showing God's Word is real and true. Notice the number of view vs the number of people who actually voted. So you lose again.

Why do you step up to the plate! I challenge you Sagey. Bring it on. If you can find a pair?
I have an open debate pending, Get some! Or continue to babble on and vote your bias opinion.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
To: Sagey Any person who begins a sentence with 'ME THINKS' Is not educated and not so smart. Anyone who reads this debate will see that you are bias.
I stand alone on the word of God! So guess what? If it is well received by men, then guess what? God did not send them. Luk_6:26, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Also you are silly because the bible speaks in parables and figures of speech. Maybe God not talking to you, is why you babble so against your creator the MOST HIGH GOD? Mat_13:10, And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat_13:11, He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat_13:13, Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat_13:14, And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat_13:15, For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat_13:16, But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Sagey you think there is some magic man sitting on a circle? Duh? He that sits. Is a figure of speech meaning God controls the world that He created Round. However that sphere will look like a circle or ball if God was talking to you.
You do not understand what is literal a what is a figure of speech. Babble on continuing proving your ignorance!
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Me Thinks somebody aught to go back to school, possibly starting from Pre-school level and re-learn everything all over again from Scratch, and this time, listen to the teachers.
Then, once educated to a decent level, say year 10, then look at the Bible.
He should also either get rid of his Bible completely or read it properly from start to finish, like I did.
Then he'd likely notice all the insane discrepancies and conflicts, not only with itself, but with reality, such as 4 legged insects in Leviticus. I always get a laugh out of that bit of naivety.
Though the one that I still find hilarious is when God could not defeat Iron chariots.
God would have no hope against an armored Black Hawk helicopter or a Tank.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Very Funny: Bible states that god will shake the pillars that hold up the sky and the stars will fall down to Earth, Twinkle-Twinkle, nice little stars, falling from the dome ceiling that God put up in Genesis.

Yes, so funny, nothing even vaguely close to realty there.
Bible writers were such absolutely naive morons.
Absolutely no sign of Omniscience there!
Revelation 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 - "I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind."

Matthew 24:29, Also states stars falling to earth, Ha Ha, silly concept.
Job 9:6 (NIV) He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble.
Yes, more Pillars trembling, funny how no scientists have been able to find such pillars holding up the Earth nor the Sky, as the Bible naively stipulates.
Psalm 75:3 When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.
Ha Ha,
telisw37 Couldn't Possibly Be More Wrong!
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
As far as Jesus being a Messiah, he didn't even fulfill the prophesy properly.
Apart from the fact that there is no evidence for anything Jesus did while he was supposedly living.
No evidence for the crucifixion, nor the resurrection.
Again: All Jesus did was incorporate Buddhist teachings into Judaism.
That's all he really did.
Jesus saved absolutely nobody, not even himself.
Jesus if he existed, is definitely Dead and shall remain so.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
The reason the Bible is such a lot of rubbish is Simple.
The wisest men alive at the time of the writing of the Bible would very likely fail Grade 5 curriculum.
In other words a well educated Grade 5 student who had an interest in learning, not ignorant like many indoctrinated Theist children, could beat Plato and Socrates in knowledge and worldly wisdom.
Because their wisdom is out-dated.
The same goes for the Bible scribes who were nowhere near as knowledgeable as Aristotle, who made less errors and conflicting statements than Biblical scribes.
So an averagely intelligent grade 5 student would beat anybody in the Bible in knowledge and wisdom, including Jesus Christ.

Thus the Bible is so out-dated, that it is practically Useless and should technically, be put away in libraries as ancient wisdom and kept as mementos of a bygone era, but certainly not something preached to others as still being relevant today, which it certainly is not.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
BTW: The Hebrew word for Circle is Chug (חוג), which means a Flat Coin like Object, which is the term used in the cited piece of scripture. The word for Sphere is Dur (דור) which is used elsewhere in scripture for Ball, so it appears that indeed the scripture described Earth as coin like, not ball like, you are still Wrong.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate seemed to go in a lot of different directions, but really all I'm concerned with is whether the topic was effectively proven by Pro. Has history and "Earthy Evidence" concurred with his statement that Jesus is the Messiah? I don't think he's fully proven that. He's tried to prove it by saying that other "Earthy Evidence" isn't concrete (and done a pretty poor job there), with historical evidence that's incredibly biased, but he hasn't proven that Jesus is definitively the Messiah. He set himself up for failure by trying to prove something that cannot objectively be proven, as well as trying to prove that "Atheists are wrong," something I also feel he did insufficiently. His links were often highly biased and inappropriate for the discussion, though Con was also lacking in the source department.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: One of pro's links failed to function, the others were nothing to do with the debate topic and proved nothing. Con's choice of sources were more convincing of Con's arguments, Pro used Bible references, which are not really acceptable as evidence because they are Contrived and Collaborative evidence. Nobody writing from within a book will say the book itself is false. Constantine would have sacked any dissenting scribes, when he had the Bible re-interpreted to suit his political objectives.