The Instigator
MichaelRB
Pro (for)
The Contender
Zidane
Con (against)

According to the Bible, Jesus is God.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 88 times Debate No: 106024
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MichaelRB

Pro

While it is true that the Bible distinguishes between Jesus and his Father, the Bible also identifies Jesus as fully God. The primary manner in which Scripture accomplishes the personal distinction between the Father and his Son, while simultaneously affirming their respective divinity by allocating the Septuagint's translation of Elohim (i.e., Theos) to the Father, and Yahweh (i.e., Kurios) to the Son. This paradigm is confirmed in most the of NT, and only occasionally is it not observed (e.g., John 1:1; 1:18; 20:28). Moreover, Jesus is identified as divine agent through whom the Father created all things (John 1:3; 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2; 1:10-12).

To suppose that since the Bible teaches monotheism (i.e., the existence of one God at all times and in all places) is not to suppose that God is unitarian (i.e., one person). Rather, monotheism does not connote the nature of God, but rather God's ontologically unique existence. Thus, the creed of Israel known as the Shema, "Hear O Israel, the LORD your God, the LORD is one" ( Deut 6:4), precludes only polytheism. So too, Paul recasts this creed within a christological framework in 1 Cor 8:6. There, the key terms of Deut 6:4 are distributed among the Father and Son with an economic distinction in creating all things-- and this within the context of idolatry.
Zidane

Con

First of all, let it be known that I am not a bible believer, but I will try hard to be a sincere learner. So you can"t just pour me tons of bible verses, without support from other sources. That is why my debate always address both bible and logic.

Anyway, let"s get the debate started, and let"s get to the point. But before that, let me thank you for your time and the opportunity the challenger gave to me so that I may argue, and sorry for bad english in advance.

Yes indeed, within the biblical context, Jesus was distinguished from the father like you said. But no, in my view, never Jesus was identified as God. Now, if you are talking about the language, again, in my view, never YHWH was entitled to Jesus. Even John 1:1 clearly stated that "... the Word was with God, ..." which means that the word distinct in nature, so that the word may be "with" God. Now, John 1:18 said that "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, ..." which, again, it distinct both creature. Now, regarding John 20:28, where Thomas shouted "my Lord and my God", what justification does he had, when Jesus himself never claim to be God?

Moving on to the point where you said divine agent, let me get this straight with an analogy. Suppose that I have a phone, and I will send you a message using that phone. Is this message is the same as the phone? Or me? Well, to simplify it, you can"t put the agent and the agency as the same, or a messanger and the sender are the same. God and his creature is different, don"t try to simplify the bible as "Jesus is God in human nature". When Jesus quoted Moses by saying that "the Lord your God is one Lord". It contradicted all of the disciples claim of Jesus divinity.

Now you"re trying to get me to the cathicism, the Jewish and Christians creeds. Then, you try to distinguish between monotheism and unitarian. Then I will only give you one question to close this session, how will you put together "Jesus divinity, God"s oneness, and the clear separation of Jesus and God" in one frame? What is your theory?

Again, I would like to say thank you for this debate. I will look forward for your counter argument. I recommend you to bring up the logical and scientific argument next time.

Have a nice day.
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