According to the Bible (Old & New Testament) Jesus Christ is God
(1) Evidence should primarily be from the Bible as we are debating a theological issue. All theological issues should be grounded in the bible. The bible, as defined above, consists of the New and Old Testament. Evidence outside of the bible such as Watchtower publications, or commentaries, will not be accepted as valid evidence. You may use any translation you desire, and you may use multiple translations in your arguments with the simple rule that you cite the translation you are using.
(2) This debate is not discussing other theological issues such as the doctrine of the trinity, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the hypostatic union of Christ, etc. This debate also presupposes the authority of scripture and the exsistence of God. The matter should be focused on the issue of Christ's divinity.
(3) No semantics, personal attacks, or any other games that will reduce this debate to anything less than what it is intended to be, which is a serious debate.
(4.1) There are three rounds.The first round is acceptance and recognition that the rules are understood and will be followed.The second round will be where the first arguments will be presented.The third round is simply for more arguments, rebuttals, and conclusions.
(4.2) In this debate rebuttals are not necessary. It is up to the individual to decide what would be more profitable for their debate. If the opponent wishes to move on, without rebuttals, and present more evidence than it is permitted.
(5) All definitions will firstly be valid in accordance to orthodox biblical theological terms. If there is any reason to define a term it will firstly be in accordance with the theological definition. A resource for appeal to and utilizing can be found here: https://carm.org... All secondary definitions will be based on definitions provided by dictonary.com.
I only ask that the person who accepts this challenge will take it seriously. I welcome anyone who wished to contend.
May the evidence win.
Hello everyone! I would like to thank Con for accepting the debate and would like to jump in it reminding you that I will be showing evidence that proves that according to the bible Jesus Christ is God. I will be using the ESV translation unless stated otherwise.
My approach will be to show firstly passages that show the divinity or deity of Christ and then in the next round I will focus on attributes that indicate the divinity or deity of Christ.
Beginning with Hebrews chapter one it is important to note the context in which we understand quickly to be an exhortation of Jesus being superior to angels. Hebrews one begins then by comparing angels to Jesus and the writer in verse eight says, “But of the Son he says”. It is important that I note that the son is shown to be Jesus throughout scripture, and the context of Hebrews one also shows that we are speaking of Jesus.
Following verse eight we see a quotation from Deuteronomy 32:43, which is a verse being addressed to God. Below is the quotation, which was not only attributed to both God and Jesus, but the quote itself being attributed to “the son” indicates Jesus it God. (My emphasis added below)
“But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,the scepter of
uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed youwith the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”” (Hebrews 1:8-9)
Verse 10 picks up with, “and” which is significant to indicate that we are still referring to the son, Jesus Christ. Verses 10 through 12 are also a quotation, but this time from the psalms, specifically psalm 102:25-27. The psalm is again addressing God to which there is no dispute as the psalms are a collection of prayers, songs, and petitions towards God. It is also worthy to note that the writer of Hebrews again makes it clear that Jesus is God by addressing Christ with a passage that describes acts and the attributes of God. (see below: Emphasis added)
“And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed.1 But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12)
In this passage Jesus has just finished his public ministry, and the writer of John is speaking on those who heard Jesus teaching and did not believe. The writer gives explanation as to why people refused to believe Jesus’ words and teachings by quoting Isaiah 6:10.
The chapter of Isaiah 6 focuses on Isaiah’s encounter with the throne of God and of course, God being on that throne. John 12:40 is a direct quotation from Isaiah’s encounter with God in the throne room. The writer of John is speaking of Jesus’ ministry here and verse 41 goes on to say, “Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.” (Emphasis added). So we have the writer of John saying that while Isaiah encountered God in the throne room he “saw his glory and spoke of him”, but here he is speaking of Jesus. The question then is whom did Isaiah see? Jesus or God? Or is Jesus God?
Here is John 12:37-43 in its entirety with verse notations to show verse 40, which is the quote from Isaiah 6,
“37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” 39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.” 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.”
It is important to also note in verse 37 that John establishes that the following verses are attributed to Jesus as he speaks on many people not believing in him despite the “many signs before them.”
Exodus 3:13-17 & John 8:58-59
In Exodus we see a discussion between Moses and God at the classic narrative of the burning bush. Exodus 3:13-17 says (with Emphasis added), “Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’””
The name that God gives Moses is, “I Am”. This was not only a personal name for God, but an indicator to the Israelites as it also symbolizes that God is, was, and is to come, he simply is. Moving past this encounter we make our way to the Gospel of John.
In John there are seven statements beginning with “I am” (John 6:35; 8:12; 10:9; 10:11; 11:25; 14:6; 15:5). Not only do all of these statements put an emphasis on who Jesus is, but the wording itself is quite suspicious. This certainly doesn’t warrant any conclusion regarding Jesus’ divinity until his “I am” statement in John 8:58-59. “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’ So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.”
In this passage we see “I am”, but alone, but not only that Jesus states, “before Abraham was, I am” and this also brings about that indication of God being who was, is, and is to come. Jesus places his existence before Abraham and then also states, “I am”. It is very important to note verse 59, “So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.” The Pharisees whom Jesus was speaking to knew exactly what Jesus meant by this statement and this isn’t the first instance where they tried to stone him for blasphemy or by “making himself equal to God.”
Final Considerations for Round 2:
Revelation 1:8 states, “I am the Alpha and the Omega.” Says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Emphasis added)
Revelation 22:12-13 is a quote from Jesus Christ saying, “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has don. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Emphasis added)
If Jesus is not God, can there be two Alphas? Two Omegas? Can there be two firsts and two lasts? Or two beginnings and ends? These “titles” leave no room for two beings to hold them. As God made this claim and then Jesus it is then, reasonable, to conclude that Jesus is God.
Titus 2:13 states, “waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” (Emphasis added)
Finally, Jesus is known as the Word of God in the flesh, and the living word. In the beginning of the Gospel of John we are faced with John 1:1 which states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
I look forward to seeing Con’s position and I hope that my case has been presented sufficiently.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.....
Jesus states that not only is he subsurvient to his father,but he is not all knowing and as such he lacks the basic quality that only God can posses,full knowledge. If Jesus had been God he would have said of that day only I know or we know.
King James Bible
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Is God like a man,that he should sleep and rest at the end of day?that he should dream and need shelter? ...he refers to himself as son of man, are we to believe that the Creator of all things would refer to himself as son of man,son of his creation? He also needs a place to sleep and compares his domain to how animals rest,this can not be befitting of God.
King James Bible
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
The son of man has been given authority, like a servant granted a favor by his master,hence it is inconvieable that God would require to be granted any authority when he has power over all things.
King James Bible
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. If Jesus is the son of man and the Bible says don't put your trust in the son of man and you claim that Jesus is God,so we should not put our trust in God? This is a ridiculous notion and hence false.
King James Bible
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."Jesus acknowledges that he has been SENT, now would God be sent by someone, if so,the God can not be the Almighty. The fact that Jesus was sent to the LOST sheep of Israel implies that he has a master greater than him and had a purpose. What is the purpose of God, isn't he the only being in existance who is not defined by purpose?
King James Bible
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
The answer to eternal life from Jesus is there is none good but God,he doesn't say there is none good but us or me, Jesus is not good by his definition, only God is good. How then can Jesus be God when he is not good? Even if he was God,he would have contradicted himself.
King James Bible
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Not only does Jesus show his utter weakness and reliance on God like all men do when faced with death, but he further confirms that the will of God and his will are separate. Jesus has a soul, are we to believe that God too has a soul,one that can be subjected to death?This is evidence enough for any to see.
the difference between the book of Hebrews and Mathew is that Hebrews was attributed to Paul for authorship while Mathew are quotations from the mouth of Jesus, shall we take the word of an apparently reformed unrepentant sinner over than of Jesus?
King James bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God...how can Jesus be God while clearly saying my God and your God? This doesn't require further elaboration.
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Jesus of Nazareth not Jesus of heaven,not Jesus that is God,he was a MAN approved by GOD not God.
King James Bible
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me..... Jesus was sent and on his own he could do nothing!!! Not characteristic of God.
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Is this lack of knowledge something God would exhibit? Does God feel hungry? And is his food fig trees? nay,it can never be. If it is, how come in tjhe beginning he created all things,was he starving till then?
The people who knew Jesus I.e the eye witnesses (true believers) said
King James Bible
And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
How can people who witnessed and acknowledged Jesus call him a prophet over the title of God?
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt...
Can these ever be the words of God,the one to whom all submit but can never submit to any? The one who is prayed too but never prays? The one who can never ever fall to his face but all creation falls on it's face to him? Clearly not. My colleague is engaging in selective editing of Scripture to justify treachery and lies against both God and Jesus.there is simply no unquestionable proof that Jesus was or is God and the notion that a man who lived in the womb of a woman and was born in blood is God is blasphemy, indeed God is to superior to undergo such,too glorious to be belittled, praise worthy and well acquainted with all things. Many a Bible verse shall be used with stringent rules but Biblical truth is clear, the Messiah is not God. Would God be circumcised and have need for sexual organs? Blasphemy!
I would like to thank Con for taking the time to participate. I will, again, be using ESV unless stated otherwise.
Con’s arguments can be summed up in three categories:
(1)Jesus’ humanness, because Jesus is weak and displays human limitations, how can he be God?
(2)Jesus’ title “son of man”, because this title says Jesus is a “son of man” can he be God?
(3)And while it is subtle, it is worth noting; “The Messiah is not God”.
It is interesting to notes that Con’s attitude reflects that of the Pharisees in the New Testament who continuously are trying to stone Jesus for his blasphemous claims.
(1) Addressing Jesus’ humanness is borderline dwelling on the theological issue of the hypostatic union, as this subject gets more complicated as you realize that Jesus was both fully God and fully man simultaneously, but who are we to limit God? Regardless, the New Testament writers knew this would be a stumbling block for many people and were kind enough to make a simple statement that we can use today in refuting this argument,
“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:5-8). (Emphasis added)
Despite Con’s argument that asks the question, “would God really subject himself to being human?” The answer is a resounding yes, as indicated in Philippians. It is worth noting that in the context of Jesus’ life, God is referred to the Father prominently, which is to show (while avoiding modalism heretical teachings and the doctrine of the trinity) the distinct “forms or roles”.
(2) Addressing Jesus’ title as Son of Man is next. Jesus used the title “Son of Man” to refer to His mission (see John 1:51; 3:13-4; 5:27; 6:27; 53, 62; 8:28: 9:35, 12:23, 34; 13:31). The origin of the term is found in Daniel 7:13 and refers to the heavenly being who receives the kingdoms of this world. The deity of the Son is actually made in the equation of “Son of Man” with “Son of God” made in John 3:14; 12:23, 34. This title merely goes on to confirm what Philippians 2:5-8 said earlier. A clear understanding that this title goes beyond just being a made must be understood to understand why it was used as the title also refers to Christ’s royalty, which then gives him power, dominion, and glory.
(3)Lastly, Con makes the argument that the Messiah is not God. Isaiah nine is a prophetic text referring to the Messiah. It speaks about the Messiah’s saving power, but it also notes the following, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). (Emphasis mine)
If it were true that the Messiah is not God, why would the prophetic text regarding the Messiah say that this “child” who is “born”, a “son” who is given, would be called “Mighty God”. It is interesting as this one prophecy, out of the multitudes, single handedly addresses Con’s position. As we see a man who is born and called son, being called Mighty God.
I would like to note that contrary to Con’s claim that “the bible is clear, the messiah is not God” given that this messianic prophecy explicitly contradicts it. I would also like to note that contrary to Con’s claim, I have not edited any of the scriptures presented and I encourage the readers to search the passages I have presented to see the validity of my claims. You can do this online at bible.com where there are a good number of translations to choose from. It is also worth noting; that we are looking at the biblical evidence not what we merely can understand. Surly, God on earth as a human being is difficult to grasp, and God can operate outside of our human limitations, thus the claims by Con appealing to those limitations are not points to be taken seriously especially in light of the rebuttals I presented above.
My last wave of arguments:
This series of evidence will be in shorter “bursts” opposed to the longer discourses presented in my first argument. Again, I encourage all of you to look up these passages at bible.com as I will be posting some of the verses, I will not be posting all of them. Lets begin!
One of Jesus’ apostles, when seeing Christ after the resurrection, said, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28, emphasis added).
Attributes of Jesus:
(a)Eternal. John 1:1, shared in my first argument suggest that Christ is eternal as we are told that he existed in the beginning, the world was created through him, and of course it says that the “word” (Jesus) is God.
(b)Omnipresent. In Matthew 28:20 Christ promised the disciples, “I am with you always.” Christ’s indwelling in believers also demands that he is omnipresent (John 14:23; Eph. 3:17; Col. 1:27; Rev. 3:20).
(c)Omnipotent. Jesus has all authority of heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). He had the power to forgive sins – something only God can do (Mark 2:5, 7, 10; Isaiah 43:25; 55:7).
(d)Immutable. Christ does not change (Hebrews 13:8) which is an attribute of deity (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).
(e)Life. Jesus IS life (John 1:4; 14:6; Psalm 36:9; Jeremiah 2:13).
Jesus’ Works of God
Here are some works that are specifically attributed to God, but in the New Testament we see Jesus perform these works as well.
(a)Jesus stills the storm (Matthew 8:23-27), which is a Work of God (Psalm 107:29)
(b)Healing the Blind (John 9:1-7), which is also a work of God (Psalm 146:8)
(c)Forgiving sin (as mentioned above, Matthew 9:2) – Work of God (Isaiah 43:25; 44:22)
(d)Jesus raised the dead (Matthew 9:25), which again is a word of God (Psalm 49:15)
(e)And feeding the 5,000 (Matthew 14:15-21) and God’s work (Joel 2:22-24).
While I believe I have sufficient evidence, it is important for the reader to remember that throughout the New Testament nearly everyone was worshiping Christ. This, especially since Christ’s ministry was towards the people of Israel, is a big deal as it would break the first commandment of God and would be punishable by death. Not only did Christ allow others to worship him, but he was also recognized by the Pharisees as someone committing blasphemy for, “making himself equal to God.”
I believe the evidence is clear that the Bible shows that Jesus is indeed God. I would simply ask the readers to review my two arguments and I believe, with objective eyes, you will see that I have not shown you anything other than what the bible teaches. There has not been any "selective editing" as my first argument consisted of quotes attributed to Jesus that were first attributed to God. Also remember that in John 12 we are told that Isaiah saw Jesus in the throne room of God. These are things that cannot be ignored.
I wish Con luck and look forward to seeing all of the feedback.
God bless and good evening.
And there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside Me. Look to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else." (Isaiah 45:21-22, Jonah 3:5-10) The singular tone of this verse in the old testament clearly defines the parameters of who God is.Never in his life did Jesus say, there is no god beside me or their is no god beside me and my father, nor there is no god beside us. Pro attempts to discard this however scripture is crystal clear.
Jesus is referred to as a man and son of man, and Jesus himself was a man , however as we read scripture we find that ...bible says that God is not man
"God is not a man" (Numbers 23:19)
"For I am God, and not man" (Hosea 11:9)
while Jesus has been referred to as...."a man who has told you the truth" (John 8:40)
God is not a man nor a son of man" (Numbers 23:19)
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him "good," asking him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
And he said to him, "Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17)
Only God is good...not only I am good or we are good!!!
God is greater than Jesus(John 14:28) (John 10:29)
"My Father is greater than I"
"My father is greater than all."
Jesus like me and you prayed to and believed in the only true God who sent him
"that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
Could Jesus be God and a man, so God is a man and Man is God...reincarnation?
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Acts 2:22)
"The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." (Acts 3:13)
"God raised up his servant" (Acts 3:26)
Jesus was a servant of God, God can not be anyone's servant
Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased." (Matt 12:18)...CAN IT BE CLEARER?
Can Jesus be God while Jesus surrenders to God's will?
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.." (Luke 22:42)
"I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me." (John 5:30)
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me." (John 6:38)
Jesus never considered himself as One with God:
"........ Trust in God; trust also in me." (John 14:1)
If Jesus is God, why then does he call out to God as man does?
My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46)
"I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God." (John 20:17)
If Jesus is God, bow come we can see him yet no man has seen God?
"no man has seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
......God cannot be tempted by evil" (James 1:13)
Yet Jesus was tempted.........so is Jesus God? a God who is tempted like man ?
i conclude with a verse that makes all clear for those with eyes to see and read, and minds to think and think highly of God.
"But I have been the LORD your God ever since you came out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior except me.