The Instigator
The_Master_Riddler
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Aceviper2011
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

According to the Bible, capital punishment is justified.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
The_Master_Riddler
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/3/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,382 times Debate No: 28861
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

The_Master_Riddler

Pro

I have the burden of proof. Con will post his argument in the first round. The only source tolerated is a dictionary, a biblical passage, and Christian websites.
Voting:
If opponent uses any sources that are not the sources above, he/she loses sources vote.
If opponent curses, he/she loses conduct vote.
If opponent forfeits one round, he/she loses conduct vote.
If opponent trolls the debate, he/she loses convincing arg. vote.

No trolling!
No semantics!
No cursing!
Acceptance of the debate means concession to rules.

Other rules:
All biblical sources, scriptures, must be accepted as true; its truth in comparison to this topic will determine who has the most convincing vote.

Enjoy!
Aceviper2011

Con

First i want to thank my opponent for this debate, I know im going to be deducted a point for not posting up my argument on the first round, which i will in the final two rounds. I first need to see this burden of proof my opponent mention about this debate topic. I also want to wish my opponent good luck, i read the rules and i gladly agree to them and I apologize for not posting my argument in the first round. I shall give my opponent the courtesy to post his first arguments.

once again i thank you and cant wait to read your arguments on this subject.
Debate Round No. 1
The_Master_Riddler

Pro

Never mind, anyways, the Bible supports capital punishment. Romans 13: 1-4 says this: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."
Now, as you can see, Paul says in the last verse that God gives power to the government. Also, that if the government kills someone because they have done something evil, that they have not done this without meaning. Therefore, we must realize that God says it is okay for the government to execute people for doing evil things because God gives them that power. Murder is evil. Therefore, it is safe to assume that capital punishment is justified according to the Bible.

Now, Con does know that he/she was supposed to post his argument in the first round so this was not done out of negligence. Voters, please vote accordingly with the knowledge presented.
Aceviper2011

Con

Let me first start off saying that after doing allot of research, reading, also looking up what the bible truely said about capital punshment if it's true justic, I have to say i found allot of interesting information about it. As the bible does mention capita punishment/death penalty in the bible, but never stated that (God said its justified). When we look at the bible or read the bible, most of the text and verses are complicated to understand, meaning we as a society take something out of text to make it our own. I want to talk to you about the verse you just posted as your proof that this capital punishment is justified, that GOD said so.

First I want to point out the main thing about the bible, the writings contradicts itself allot. This whole verse is a quote, quote is someone speaking or writing. Now this is the part were God himself never said anything about Capital punishment being justified, as we all read my opponent verse he used as his proof as you can see GOD never spoke, the words that gave that away that a man wrote this, a man (human) wrote this say's FOR GOD, OF GOD. Them two little phrases themselves speak for it all that GOD himself never said such things. Then my opponent will say well god spoke through the man who wrote this, no there is no physical nor proven facts that GOD really spoke to this man or woman telling her to say such things, if there is physical proof then please post it up for all the viewers to see this proof.

Now here comes the crazy part about this, in the Old Testiment there were ten commandments, right. Well now my viewers if we took allot at them commandments GOD's Laws according to Moses, one of them laws stated "thou shall not kill". Which i do not need to get into detailed with that as it explains it self. Now if it stated in the begining of that verse tha GOD SAID then your argument would have more ground to fall on, but like I said god never spoke the words.

Now im going to go over the samething about these other verses your going to throw in this debate to try and show our viewers that GOD SAID capital punishment is justfied.

GENISIS 9 verse 6: says "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man". Like i said in my last argument GOD never spoke of such things as my voters can see also my opponent can see that it has those two words OF GOD meaning god never said such things the man who wrote this said such things. It dont point out in the begining that GOD SAID "whoso sheddeth etc..." it just begins without proof of god saying and goes to of god.

It should be noted that from Noah until the institution of the Law, the Bible only sanctioned capital punishment for murder. When God gave the law to Moses, additional things were considered capital crimes worthy of death. These include...

  • Hitting your parents -- Ex. 21:15
  • Kidnapping -- Ex 21:16
  • Cursing your father or mother -- Ex 21:17
  • Killing an unborn infant -- Ex 21:22-25 (There is some discussion about the interpretation of the passage. I believe it means if a woman has a miscarriage and the baby lives there can be lesser penalties. If the baby dies or the baby and the mother die the death penalty applies as the KJV & NIV translate the passage.
  • An animal that has the habit of injuring others and the owner does not destroy it -- Exodus 21:28-29
  • Witchcraft -- Ex. 22:18
  • Worship of other gods/goddesses -- Ex. 22:20
  • Working on the Sabbath -- Ex. 35:2
  • Adultery -- Lev. 20:10
  • Incest -- Lev. 20:11-12 & 14
  • Sodomy (homosexuality/lesbianism) -- Lev. 20:13
  • Bestiality -- Lev. 20:15-16
  • False prophesying -- Deut. 13:1-10
  • Rape under some circumstances -- Deut. 22:2

Heres more proof for this so call GOD said, now all my voters and my opponent take a good look at this, going through every single verse reading not once did god say such things about capital punishment only person who said something about capital punishment was the person who wrote the bible, since there like i said no physical evidence that god spoke such things to this person then the rulling of god saying that capital punishment is justified is truely false when god himself never took a pen and wrote all the words in the bible himself. If he did, the bible ill say something like this I am god and i say capital punishment is justify. But since no verse said such thing only the ones that said I am your father, or I am God the alpha and omega, there is still no proof as i explain that god never said capital punishment is justified in the bible. That man himself wrote the bible.

Here's my proof that God never said capital punishment is justified:

Example 1: Like i said the verses always said of god, meaning obviously God did not say anything.

Example 2: According to moses the laws that god spoke even though GOD never directly said but still one law was "thou shall not kill". I do not care who anyone is, killing is killing there is no exemptions from killing.

Example 3: Now this verse is different from other verses but spoken by Jesus Christ the son of god. "thou without sin throw the first stone" meaning you can not put condamn someone to death when the person who condamns is not pure themselves. that verse alone said that even Jesus was against the death penalty.

Now I know your going to bring up more verses, that god supposively said this and jesus did to. Voters and my opponent think about this as i say unto you. If god and jesus christ gave us the right to use the death penalty knowing and saying that killing and murdering is wrong wouldnt that make them accountable to murder and killing. I dont care if there is a difference, blood shed is blood shed regardless who you are or how much power you have. This is were religion messes up everything and in the end make god and jesus look bad by man writing such words when there is no physical evidence that god spoke upon these men to write for him. That god himself would allow killing to be ok. That is not GOD, GOD is suppose to be loving and forgivness, and pure. not allow killing the killing, murdering the murderes to be ok. In the end the bible is third person, supposevely Gods word, but with no physical evidence no proof, GOD never himself without no help, brought a pen from heaven and wrote. The only proof is man wrote the bible, not gods writing but mans writing.

Now voters as you can see this debate is at a stand still, meaning my opponent still has not given proof that the bible it self said capital punishment is justfied, by god nor by jesus nor by any phrase or quote, or writing that the bible itself said in its own words here is all the proof you need all i said and this final evidence when in the title of this debate my opponent stated according to the bible capital punishment is justified, when according to the bible there is no phrase no verse nothing that said "capitl punishment is justified. Also as you read his argument he stated usng god as a guide that GOD said its ok when, god never spoke of such things, also the bible never stated all pages that capital punishment is justified. We still all await for my opponent to give us proof were according to the bible, the bible says capital punishment is justfied and as anyone can look in the bible, not one verse, not one page said capital punishment is justified.

my final thoughts as i come to a closure to this round i want to thank my opponent again for this opportunity and wish my opponent the best of luck to provide evidence which the bible said in all the words and pages "capital punishment is justified".

Debate Round No. 2
The_Master_Riddler

Pro

First off, I never said that the Bible says specifically that capital punishment is justified. This debate is to show that if we really read the Bible, that God supports capital punishment. Second, my opponent used scriptures from the Old Testament, but the Jesus says specifically that he has come to offer a new testament. Therefore, because my scripture is from the new testament and his are from the old testament, his scriptures would be of lesser relevance than my scriptures. Third, in the Old Testament, there are many statements in which God tells people to kill others for their wrongdoing and says so in Lev. 24-17, that if you kill a man that you should be put to death. Now that is a pure example of capital punishment in the Bible.
Here is my argument-
God tells us to kill someone if they killed someone.
Capital Punishment kills people who have committed murder,
Therefore, capital punishment is justified according to the Bible.
My opponent has supported my case by providing scriptures in which God has killed people for the things he dislikes which comes to my second argument-
God tells us as a nation, to kill people for committing sins, or deeds that he doesn't like.
In the Bible, there are several statements in which God tells us he doesn't like murderers.
Therefore, we, as a nation, must kill murders.
Because the nation is upholding capital punishment instead of us as individuals, therefore, capital punishment is justified according to the word of God.
Now this is the part were God himself never said anything about Capital punishment being justified, as we all read my opponent verse he used as his proof as you can see GOD never spoke, the words that gave that away that a man wrote this, a man (human) wrote this say's FOR GOD, OF GOD. Them two little phrases themselves speak for it all that GOD himself never said such things. Then my opponent will say well god spoke through the man who wrote this, no there is no physical nor proven facts that GOD really spoke to this man or woman telling her to say such things, if there is physical proof then please post it up for all the viewers to see this proof.
By stating these words, my opponent has ideally contradicted himself. He has seem to have stated that the Bible is not the word of God. Therefore, it is ideal that this man doesn't understand that he himself has refuted his own evidence because I could also say God didn't say Thou shall not kill! He wrote on a tablet Thou shalt not kill and told Moses to tell it to the Israelites. My opponent has merely posted this contradictory argument-
The Bible is the Word of God.
God didn't say that scripture.
Therefore, that is not the word of God.
This argument is not true at all.
Heres more proof for this so call GOD said, now all my voters and my opponent take a good look at this, going through every single verse reading not once did god say such things about capital punishment only person who said something about capital punishment was the person who wrote the bible, since there like i said no physical evidence that god spoke such things to this person then the rulling of god saying that capital punishment is justified is truely false when god himself never took a pen and wrote all the words in the bible himself. If he did, the bible ill say something like this I am god and i say capital punishment is justify. But since no verse said such thing only the ones that said I am your father, or I am God the alpha and omega, there is still no proof as i explain that god never said capital punishment is justified in the bible. That man himself wrote the bible.

My opponent broke the first rule in the other rules which clearly states that all biblical sources, scriptures, must be accepted as true. In the statement he clearly states that my source is not true by saying that it wasn't written by God but that is not true because it was written by an apostle of God named Paul. He has basically said that the entire word of God false by stating that Man himself wrote the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God, therefore he wrote it through people. I also can say that his scriptures are not true because he can't prove that God wrote it, but then I would be contradicting myself.
My opponent has broken two rules already in this debate. Voters, it is obvious that you should vote Pro!
Aceviper2011

Con

Well my opponent clearly puts words in text that I never said, First I never said "The bible is not the word of God." My opponent clearly tried to manipulate everything I said, all my points, also all my views. When you try to manipulate or put words into text that someone never said is in the end TROLLING. So as for the rules in a debate sorry, but when your in a debate there is no rules to follow, as everyone clearly knows that by now. When you broke your own rules but in not going to cry out to the voters and tell them to vote for me, and point out every rule you broke just to make myself look better. Not only did you violate my views and manipulated my words into your own, you also in a way kinda banned me from using the old testiment of the bible, when you said to use "bible and christians websites to prove your opponents arguments." Well since my opponent broke some of his rules himself, voters please note while voting at this point the rules are out of the picture. Plus as another note to keep in mind which voters know it is true about debates there are NO RULES IN DEBATING. Plus posting rules in a debate also shows the kind of debator people are, ones that can not do great without conditions.

As for these so call contradictions I made, once again I never said that the bible was not the word of god, if my opponent and voters relook my statement. What I said was man wrote the bible, with no proof from my opponent showing that god wrote the bible, then were left with the understanding without no proof, then there is no evidence stating that god really truely said any of these words written in the bible. I clearly never said that the bible is not god words. Now I will surely get back to the argument of this debate.

I want to recongnize the status of my opponent for he really do not know from text clearly on what he is really debating about.

1st it was about the recongnition of Capital Punishment is justified in the bible, only presenting one verse as his arguement.

2nd He then said that according to god, killing the killers is justified. This debate went from plain text from the bible to GOD SAID SO debate, meaning after he went off topic this debate just now basically became a debate simpily about the DEATH PENALTY, since my opponent did ask to keep it religious i shall do that in respect for my opponent.

Capital Punishment: According to the bible is supposively justified in the name of GOD, if GOD truely said it is ok for capital punishment then my viewers i wonder if my opponent had one more round how would he answer this question or what would he think about this situation. I would really like for my viewers to open there minds as well as my opponent and really think hard about a situation i will describe and tell me if the WORD OF GOD, GOD himself would truely say capital punishment is justfied in the bible.

Here i began with the Situation:
Lets just say one night my opponent was at home with his family, then it started to become really late, so everyone decides to go to sleep. Then a couple of hours later, three guys came in your house, you hear racket, but didnt think nothing of it. Five minutes later you hear gun shots, you get up fast run downstairs a couple of your really really close family lets say you have a sister and say it was your father who shot them guys, well the police came and got there statements, but got taken to jail untill there court hearing and since you stated GOD gave power to judges to handle the cases, and lets say this world was living by the bible fully, and since you said GOD said it was justified for capital punishment, and since them guys died by your sister and fathers hands before judgment was passed by court they became the victums now of murder, and since clearly BY YOUR ARGUEMENT that if a man takes a man flesh then the flesh of that man be taken. NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE. Going back now your father and sister face the capital punishment, since you said that god said in the bible since we went from the bible to god saying its justified. Anyways your father and sister since they took those men lives regardless self-defense, because as you said in your arguement GOD only gave power to higher officials only. So your two family became the murderers, and since in your arguement you spoke that GOD SAID and Argued against my claims that capital punishment truely is not justified, you now got to watch two innocent people you love be put to death.

Now even I myself can see that is not justice, and for my opponent and viewers I hope you realize that isn't truely justified. My opponent failed to see a bigger picture of this whole arguement, instead of having this be an open debate he choose to keep it religious, and believes that a GOD full of Pure love would truely write scriptures of brudal violence, and its not just for murder, according to the bible all it took to be put to death, a child could talk back, and that gave the child the death penalty, as I say were is that justified, the list in my last arguement posted the reasons to be put to death according to the bible, and these are call misbehaviors and low charges of the court, but the bible stated its the death penalty. HOW is that JUSTIFIED according to the bible, ACCORdDING TO GOD. Thats a question you should personally ask yourself is HOW IS THAT JUSTICE?

Here comes the part that will shock my opponent, when the New Testiment came to play, Jesus spoke "thos who are without sin throweth the first stone". Meaning basically HE WAS AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY, THAT THE DEATH PENALTY IS NOT JUSTFIED. I think GOD started to see that even capital punishment was not Justified, oh wait should Jesus have been put to death before he was crusified for going against his own father GOD. When that woman was convicted of prostitution, since that was one of the reasons for capital punishment, but also those who opposed GOD also got capital punishment as there sentence for judgment. Since Jesus said to those men who ask Jesus what do they do that she was a prostitue, and Jesus answered "those who are without sin throw the first stone" going against his own father Jesus right there and then should of gotten the same punishment. So in a sense God showed that The Death Penalty was unjustified. Then since GOD BROKE HIS OWN RULES, HE HIMSELF SHOULD OF GOTTEN THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT SENTENCE.

MY FINAL THOUGHTS

my opponent, clearly did not put up a strong argument to his claim for in his final round he mainly focused on attacking me, trolling me, breaking rules himself in this debate.
As we read his 3rd and final round arguement we all can see my opponent clearly went off subject, when it was strictly about the bible, but when in his first arguement after the verse he used, he then said GOD basically SAID SO. This whole arguement went off topic by himself.
He claims that I said "the bible was false and that his source is not true because god didnt write the bible" making a false accusation towards me. Now im going to clear my name and explain what i meant by what I said.
WHAT I MEANT WAS GOD HIMSELF NEVER SPOKE OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BEING JUSTIFIED, THAT GOD HIMSELF NEVER WROTE THE BIBLE, IT WAS A MAN WHO WROTE THE BIBLE, JUST LIKE TODAY HOW WE USE TRICK PHOTOS AND TAKE THINGS OUT OF POPORSION THAT THIS WHO WROTE THE BIBLE TOOK IT OUT OF PURPORTION.
ALSO ANOTHER THING I MEANT WAS IN THE BIBLE IT NEVER SAID GOD SAID "CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS JUSTFIED" FOR MY OPPONENT STILL FAILED TO GIVE US THE SCRIPTURE OR WRITING THAT GOD HIMSELF SAID "CAPITIAL PUNISHMENT IS JUSTIFIED". ALSO THE BIBLE DID NOT SPECIFICALLY SAY "CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS JUSTFIED" ALSO THERE WAS NO PROOF GIVEN FROM MY OPPONENT STATING THE BIBLE SAID THAT SPECIFICALLY. He also still failed to show any of us proof that GOD wrote the bible, and also to give us proof that GOD TRUELY SPOKE TO JOHN while JOHN wrote the bible.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Imagination 4 years ago
Imagination
Mostly that I'll be checking up frequently on the debate out of personal interest in its outcome.
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
Sorry about my opening arguement i just had to see your first arguements and proof. your about to go on a wild ride with this debate with me so i giving you a head start. good luck
Posted by The_Master_Riddler 4 years ago
The_Master_Riddler
@ Imagination- What do you mean?
Posted by Imagination 4 years ago
Imagination
Will stalk this :D
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by TigerTime 4 years ago
TigerTime
The_Master_RiddlerAceviper2011Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro cited bible verses where God asks for killings to occur. I was expecting con to deal with the verses pro was mentioning specifically, but he didn't. Instead he tried to argue about the existence of god, which doesn't really matter here.