The Instigator
twsurber
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Valtarov
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

According to the Bible unsaved people will go to the Lake of Fire

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
twsurber
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/4/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,255 times Debate No: 12479
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

twsurber

Pro

No specific format, no play on semantics. Thanks and Best of Luck.

C-1: According to John 3:18, people who have accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord are not condemned. People who have not are condemned.

C-2: According to Revelation 20:12 & 15, the people who are saved have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. He whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Conclusion, the resolution is affirmed according to scripture.
Valtarov

Con

My opponent has failed to define terms.

Saved: One who believes in Christianity.

C-1: This is not true due to the parable of the sheep and the goats.

C-2: Seeing as it is not just the Saved who are in the Book of Life (for they are judged by their works, according to your own verse), this also doe not support your case.
Debate Round No. 1
twsurber

Pro

Being saved is accepting the gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

OC1: The sheep and the goats represent the saved and the unsaved. It is correct.

OC2: Absolutely applicable. 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The second death is eternal punishment in the lake of fire, experienced only by the unsaved. Once this final judgment occurs, there is no further need for either death or hell (Hades) (1: v.18; 6: v.8, Isaiah 25: v.8; 1 Cor. 15: verses 26 and 55). An eternal separation is now made between those who have life and those who have "death" (Dan. 12: v.2; John 5: v.29).
http://www.discoverrevelation.com...

All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Therefore they are in a condemned state unless they choose to accept Jesus as their personal savior. If they choose to remain condemned, their eternity will be in the lake of fire. If they choose to accept Jesus as their savior, they will spend eternity with Jesus in heaven.

Thanks
Valtarov

Con

"OC1: The sheep and the goats represent the saved and the unsaved. It is correct."
I quote from the said parable:
"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink? and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around? and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee? And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did it."
These people are clearly not people who had faith in Christ, 'else why would they ask when they did good in His name?

Further evidence on this point:
1 Timothy 4:10: "for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing."
Note: "especially of those believing." This means some are in the Book of Life without belief.

The most damning piece of evidence against his case, that, according to the Bible, all who do not believe in Jesus Christ will go into the Lake of Fire, is his own verse.
Revelation 20:11-12 "And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;"
If people are judged to have life or death based upon their works, then there are some who are saved (under our definition of it i.e. believing in Christ) who go to death and some who are not saved (believing in Christ) who are given life.

OC2: Absolutely applicable. 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I concede that some will go to the Lake of Fire. However, whether one is saved (believing in Christ) is not the deciding factor, as my opponent's verse shows.

"The second death is eternal punishment in the lake of fire, experienced only by the unsaved. Once this final judgment occurs, there is no further need for either death or hell (Hades) (1: v.18; 6: v.8, Isaiah 25: v.8; 1 Cor. 15: verses 26 and 55)."
Hades=place where dead people are, not place where the lost are (that's Gehenna).
"An eternal separation is now made between those who have life and those who have "death" (Dan. 12: v.2; John 5: v.29)."
I concede that this is true; those who are saved and those who have life are not the same.

"All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Therefore they are in a condemned state unless they choose to accept Jesus as their personal savior. If they choose to remain condemned, their eternity will be in the lake of fire. If they choose to accept Jesus as their savior, they will spend eternity with Jesus in heaven."

Not true. Look at what Jesus himself said:
From Luke 18: "18 And a certain ruler questioned him, saying, 'Good teacher, what having done -- shall I inherit life age-during?' 19 And Jesus said to him...'the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.' 21 And he said, 'All these I did keep from my youth;' 22 and having heard these things, Jesus said to him, 'Yet one thing to thee is lacking; all things -- as many as thou hast -- sell, and distribute to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven.'"
Nowhere is it mentioned that one needs to believe in Jesus.

28 And one of the scribes having come near, having heard them disputing, knowing that he answered them well, questioned him, 'Which is the first command of all?' 29 and Jesus answered him -- 'The first of all the commands is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one; 30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of thy soul, and out of all thine understanding, and out of all thy strength -- this is the first command; 31 and the second is like it, this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'"
The way that it is said, in Hebrew, "second" means "and also". Jesus says that the two are equivalent. Nowhere here, either, does it say that one must believe. Jesus does not say it is most important to believe with him, but rather to "love God", which is hardly limited to those believing in Christianity. It is questionable whether one even has to believe in God's existence to love God.
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by twsurber 7 years ago
twsurber
The issue won't be resolved in a debate forum. Some day we'll all find out for sure won't we?
Posted by Kinesis 7 years ago
Kinesis
Yeah, because 2 short rounds are enough to resolve this issue.
Posted by twsurber 7 years ago
twsurber
Um, How was it negated?
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 7 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Um... you negated the resolution. And then affirmed it. With the same source. The resolution is not affirmed, it stands equally contradictory from both sides.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by twsurber 7 years ago
twsurber
twsurberValtarovTied
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Total points awarded:50