The Instigator
telisw37
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Matt_L
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

According to the bible. The Adam of the bible was is God Himself. 99.9% Christians are in error.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Matt_L
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 596 times Debate No: 44884
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

telisw37

Pro

Luke 3:38 The son of Seth the son of Adam the son of God.
Matt_L

Con

I've read a few of your debates Mr. Dwayne and I find them very interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to this one!

With regard to your first argument: Just because Adam was the son of God doesn't make him God. I'm my fathers son, but I'm not my father.

Now, I believe that there are several places in the Bible that contradict the idea that Adam and God were the same. I'll briefly list three of them here.

1) Deuteronomy 33:27, I Timothy 1:17 and Exodus 15:18 all show that God is eternal; yet Genesis 5:5 clearly tells us that Adam died. If God is eternal then that means He has no end. So contradiction number one is the death of Adam.

2) God is perfect as shown in Deuteronomy 32:4, II Samuel 22:31 and Matthew 5:4. On the other hand, Genesis 2:16, 3:6 and 3:17-19 tells of the sin of Adam. Therefore, contradiction number two is Adam's sin making him fall short of the perfection possessed by God.

3) Finally, if God was Adam, then why was Adam able to be tempted by Eve? James 1:13 clearly states that God cannot be tempted. Contradiction number three is Adam being tempted by Eve.

Thank you for your time and consideration, and may God bless you!
Debate Round No. 1
telisw37

Pro

Thank you for accepting! I agree that you as a human can not do the things that a divine being can do.

I am saying Christ was is His own Father! That virgin born thing!
Joh_1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (DID ADAM KEEP IS EYES CLOSED WHEN IN EDEN WITH GOD?){Was Adam a man?}
Joh_3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Heb_11:17, By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
1Jo_4:9, In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1. I said that Adam returned via virgin through Mary! Hung on the cross and rose never to die again, Who promised to return and rule this earth forever. That is ETERNAL!

2. Adam was not deceived but took the hit for Eve!
1Ti_2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Also Adam simple activity activated a plan that God Himself had already made. Because when was the Lamb slain?
Before the foundations of the world was laid.
Rev_13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

3. Well if you say God can not be tempted! Then why did Jesus enter the wilderness after being baptized? Are you suggesting that Jesus was not God?
Mat_4:1, Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mar_1:13, And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Luk_4:2, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
I suggest that Jesus knew from before!
Isa_7:14, Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa_7:15, Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa_7:16, For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

When did God form Himself? Gen.2:7 in Eden!
Strongs# 3335 means squeezed into, the potter

Isa_43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa_43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa_43:12, I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Matt_L

Con

Your reply has given me much to think about. I apologize for my very brief reply, I was extremely busy this weekend and was not able to give as much focus to this debate as I needed to.

You asked "DID ADAM KEEP IS EYES CLOSED WHEN IN EDEN WITH GOD?" Well, where in the Bible does it say that Adam saw God? In fact, John 1:18 (which was quoted by Pro) suggests that no man has beheld God. Period.

Now, I'm not trying to be difficult and I apologize for misunderstanding, but I don't really get what you mean when you talk about God forming Himself. Genesis 2:7 talks about God "squeezing" man into shape. Where does your idea that God was actually forming Himself come from?

I'll end round two with a new point. If God was Adam, then what about the conversation between the two in Genesis chapter three? And why would God hide from Himself and then throw Himself out of the garden?

Again, I'm sorry I was so brief. God Bless!
Debate Round No. 2
telisw37

Pro

Thanks! Christ came in the flesh through the bloodline of David. Ponder the fact that if you agree with most of the 99,9.5% religions, you actually deny that Christ came in the flesh as a flesh man as it is written.
1Jo_2:18, Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo_2:22, Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo_4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo_1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Your new point is well taken!
Who did Jesus pray to?
Was God proud of Himself? If Jesus was is God?
Mat_3:17, And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat_12:18, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat_17:5, While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mar_1:11, And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk_3:22, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Jesus asked the riddle to the religious right! (HINT ADAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Mat_22:42, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat_22:45, If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mar_10:47, And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Mar_10:48, And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Mar_12:35, And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
Mar_12:37, David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
Luk_1:32, He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk_3:31, Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
Luk_18:38, And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Matt_L

Con

Now I'm really confused... What exactly does Jesus being decended from David have to with this debate? I would like to offer you counter arguments, but I just don't understand your points. I'm very sorry.

I suppose I'll just give another new argument. This one concerns Eve.
The Biblical account of her creation, found in Genesis chapters one and two, suggests that she was the same type of being as Adam. After all, wasn't that was the whole point of her creation? God Himself said "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him." (Genesis 2:18 ESV). And then after she is created, Adam says "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." (Genesis 2:23 ESV).
Now, if Adam was actually God, wouldn't Eve be God also? Or at least part God?

I'm interested to know your opinion. God Bless!
Debate Round No. 3
telisw37

Pro

Adam returned via virgin via Mary=Christ. Born from above, Born of water through the womb.
Satan's fallen angels attacked the daughters of Adam not all of mankind.
Remember the curse. Adam = Christ could only return through a daughter of Eve.
Yes Eve was a God Woman. Their bloodline became the giants and the sin of Noah. Noah's bloodline was the only one left.

My Point has everything to do with the debate. Alpha and Omega?
Rev_1:8, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev_1:11, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev_21:6, And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev_22:13, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

" Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. "

Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Matt_L

Con

I apologize for my misunderstanding in the last round. I believe I see what you're saying now.

However, where does the Bible differentiate between the descendants of Adam and Eve and the descendants of the rest of mankind? Where did these other people come from? Did they come about before or after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden? If they came about before, then they would conceivably still be living in the garden, because the Bible says nothing about them sinning or being cast out. If you could show me where these guys are mentioned in the Bible, I would appreciate it.

Moving on to the Alpha and Omega:
Jesus Christ is in fact the Beginning and the End. Adam however is neither one of these things. He was not there in the beginning, as was Jesus according to John chapter one. He was created later by Jesus, who is The Word. There is also no Biblical mention of Adam being the end, whereas Jesus is explicitly made known as the end in Revelation. So we see that while Jesus fits the title "Alpha and Omega," Adam does not.

This brings us to the "Root of David."(I now understand the point up you were making. Apologies for being slow!)
As you said, Revelation 22:16 clearly establishes Jesus as both the root and offspring of David. The offspring part is the easiest to understand as the genealogy of Jesus is given to us in the Bible. But how can He be both offspring and root? Well, again, let's look to the genealogy. Who is the ultimate ancestor and therefore root of David? Not Adam, but YHWH! Like you said in round one: The son of Seth the son of Adam the son of YHWH. It's the Creator that is the root and also, through Jesus, the offspring of David. Therefore there is no need for Jesus to be a reincarnated Adam to fulfill the words spoken in Revelation 22:16.

May YHWH bless and keep you!
Debate Round No. 4
telisw37

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.
I will try to answer as best that I can!
The Jewish/Hebrew people came out of Adam, Also Abraham. Now the Jewish people got the blessing through Issac. Because his seed carried the virgin born Christ.
Here is a post from a old debate.

The whole world waits for the restoration of Eden, (Who was at the Head?)
Rom_8:22, For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
All religions agree that a man named Christ existed.
The bible has 300+ prophecies leading to the virgin birth of Christ, being born of the seed of Adam fulfilling being the Root of David who Prevailed.
1st. Witness: Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
2nd. Witness: Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
The bible is a detailed record of the family of Adam who married Eve (Who became Israel by birth, bloodlines and real families) later called a whore who was beguiled by Satan not a talking snake.

2Co_11:1, Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2Co_11:2, For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co_11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co_11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co_11:5, For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
2Co_11:6, But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
2Co_11:7, Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?

Christ on the Cross in Genesis 3.

" Gen 3:17 And unto Adam (Christ not virgin born yet.) he (The same voice in the clouds who spoke This is my beloved son and who I am well pleased! ) said Because thou (Adam/Christ) hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife(Eve=Israel) and hast eaten of the tree (CROSS!) of which I (Voice from clouds) commanded thee saying Thou shalt not eat of it:(Take sin upon yourself!) cursed is the ground for thy sake;(Your royal bloodline of David, mixed with Satan!) in sorrow (Christ a man of sorrows!) shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles (Crown of thorns!!!!!) shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Fig tree no figs!) Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground; (Lords supper before the cross!) for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:20 And Adam (Christ) called his wife's name Eve; (Israel) because she was the mother of all living. Not in Christ then you are dead! Not meaning Eve actually did not birth all races of people.

Footnotes:
Voice from heaven.
Mat_3:17, And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat_17:5, While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mar_1:11, And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar_9:7, And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Man of sorrows.
Isa_53:3, He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Crown of thorns.
Mat_27:29, And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Mar_15:17, And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
Joh_19:2, And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

Lords Supper.
Luk_22:7, Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

Luk_22:8, And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk_22:9, And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
Luk_22:10, And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk_22:11, And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Fig Tree Know that Adam and Eve were in a Fig Grove. Not a Apple patch! " Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons.

Mat_21:19, And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mat_21:20, And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Mat_21:21, Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat_24:32, Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mar_11:13, And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Mar_11:20, And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar_11:21, And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar_13:28, Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Matt_L

Con

You provided a lot of Bible verses to support your idea in this last round, but none of them prove that Adam was in fact God.

"The bible has 300+ prophecies leading to the virgin birth of Christ, being born of the seed of Adam fulfilling being the Root of David who Prevailed." I believe I provided sufficient information to prove that Adam was not the root and offspring of David in the last round.

You interpretation of Genesis chapter three is very interesting. Though, I don't think it's correct. I believe that the last verse of the part that you quoted provides more proof that Adam was not Jesus. It reads: "for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return." Jesus did not return to dust (decompose) when He died. He was only dead for a few days and then returned to life! Now, I do see where many parallels can be made between Adam and Jesus in this passage, but that does not mean or prove that they're the same being. It just proves that parallels can be made between them.

Also, you never gave any explanation regarding the people that weren't descended from Adam and Eve. I agree that the Bible is the story of the chosen people, Israel, but I don't understand where you found these other people in the Bible.

Well, I thank you for your time and thoughts during this debate. YHWH be with you!
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Babble on!
Posted by octo 3 years ago
octo
First of all Adam was full man (Because God gave him freewill) He could be tempted AND sin. Jesus became Fully Mam and full God so to be God he could not Sin because sin is opposite of God who is a All Good being
So Adam did sin and why whould God send himself out of the Garden. ????
Posted by blaze8 3 years ago
blaze8
You're conflating the holy trinity with the word "son." In Luke 3, Luke is giving the lineage of Jesus, showing how he is descended directly from the line of David. The sentence "son of adam, son of God" does not imply that Adam WAS God, for Genesis clearly states that Adam was made from dust by God. Furthermore, we must also consider that in the New Testament, those who are Christian are considered "Children of God" (2 Corinthians 6:18, and many other verses.). It is conceivable, therefore, that because Adam was the first man, living in Eden, we may apply the term "Child of God" to him and Eve as well. But this is wholly independent of the holy trinity. For Jesus is not just the Son of God (notice the capitalization, where in Luke 3:38, "son" is not capitalized), but also Son of Man.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Benefit of the doubt.
Posted by black_squirrel 3 years ago
black_squirrel
I think your estimate of 99.9% is on the low side.
JMO
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dtaylor971 3 years ago
dtaylor971
telisw37Matt_LTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: In the first round (and all of the rounds) con showed that Adam was not God. The majority of pro's arguments were somewhat unorganized and not following the debate topic. Conduct goes to con for repeatedly thanking the pro and issuing the "God Bless" at the end of each round. Sources are tied, as neither used sources. Spelling and grammar is also tied, as there are no big mistakes on either side. Good debate.
Vote Placed by Romanii 3 years ago
Romanii
telisw37Matt_LTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed that in the Bible, there is a clear differentiation between God and Adam. Most of Pro's conclusions didn't even follow his premises, causing much confusion on Con's part. Con also showed that logically, it is impossible for Adam (if he existed) to be God.