The Instigator
avery6652
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
TheHitchslap
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Achilles vs Hercules

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
TheHitchslap
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/29/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,047 times Debate No: 33055
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (9)

 

avery6652

Pro

Hello, I'm here to argue that Achilles would defeat Hercules in a SWORD fight. Con will argue that Hercules would win in a sword fight.

Rules:
1. NO PROFANITY
2. No Rick Riordan references.
3.No Nemean Lion skin(Hercules)
4.Have a reasonable argument.
5. Hercules as a demi god.

I wish my opponent good luck.

I'm going to begin this debate by list what each demi-god is famous for, there parent and there abilities.

Achilles:
1. Most famous for leading the Greeks to victory during the Trojan War.
2. His parent is Thetis and Peleus.( Thetis is the daughter of Nereus: the original sea god).
3. He is a demi- god so he has considerably more strength than a human. Achilles is also well known for his being Invernable for every area of his body except his heal. Achilles also has super-human reflexes as most demi-gods have.
4. Achilles is also very skilled in battle and was trained by Chiron.( A centaur who trains MOST of Greeks most famous hero's).

Hercules:
1.Most famous for leading the Gods against the giants and complete the 12 labors.
2. He is the son of Zues and Alcmene.
3.Hercules was well known for his God-Like strength.
4. It never says much of Hercules battle skill but i am sure that he was never formally trained.

I would like to begin with my argument now that we have the basics out of the way.My argument is that Achilles would defeat Hercules in a swords match 1v1. I would like to begin with all of the training Achilles received. Achilles was trained by Chiron. Chrion trained ALMOST every famous Greek hero in mythology.Compare this to Hercules lack of training, Achilles has already won in this category.

I would then like to compare there special abillites. While Hercules was known for his super-human strength, Achilles is known for immortality(except heal). Hercules superhuman strength won't matter because he can not harm Achilles and won't know about Achilles heal since Hercules is a warrior before the Trojan War.

Hercules was also a very reckless warrior as he could be because of his tremendous strength. Achilles however is trained to find weak spots and flaws in his enemy's fighting style. People fail to realize is that Hercules is only a DEMI-GOD he can die.
Hercules was also never formally trained with a sword or any weapon, although Hercules may have strength, Achilles is a far more smart, and dangerous opponent.
TheHitchslap

Con

I accept.

First, I'd like to point out that my opponent has clearly never read Homer's Iliad. Anyone who has knows that Achilles did NOT lead the Greeks to victory. In fact they were Greek but so was the Trojans. They were called Achaean's, and they were attacking the Trojans. And Achilles would actually DIE as noted in the myth and the prophecy upon engaging in the final siege. I shall use this as evidence against my opponent, as Achilles is weaker than Hercules.

Secondly, I'd also like to point out that Achilles was THOUGHT or CLAIMED to be conceived as the son of Zeus, which is never confirmed nor denied. However, Hercules WAS confirmed. He is in fact a demi god. And furthermore, actually never dies. When half of his body is burned (the mortal side) Zeus saves him and he becomes a God. Thus confirming the superiority of Hercules over Achilles. In fact, the Achaean's wouldn't have done nearly as well if it were not for Hercules, as his bow and arrow -upon turning into a God- is given to Poeas who shoots Paris, causing his death and the eventual victory for the Achaeans.

Third, Hercules goes on several epic quests, known as the 12 labors to fulfill his duty. Achilles, cries, whines, pisses and moans against Agamemnon while the Trojan War is going on. In fact, he even outright refuses to fight because of Agamemnon "steals his prize" and his distribution of prizes was "unfair". In fact a central theme of Iliad is rage, and how the rage of Achilles harms him both physically and mentally. Costing him the life of his friends, his own life, and mental stress for thinking the Gods are against him.

Counters:
1) Hercules in a sword fight WOULD know, if Zeus really is the all knowing God, and father of Hercules. It would be irrelevant for Achilles to have Zeus as a father, Zeus would simply have to tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles. And this IS logical, as Zeus treats Achilles like crap because he thought that Achilles may be his son, and if so, then he may be the one in the prophecy who will overthrow him, thus he was a demi-God. Hercules would simply use his tremendus strength to nail that ankle. Bye bye Achilles.
2) Hercules also has prudence, unlike Achilles, which is an advantage for him, he will not over-commit to attacks out of blood-lust unlike Achilles, exposing his ankle even in the final seige.
3) Hercules does not have training, but he does have divine powers even as a demi god far superior to Achilles due to his nursing of Hera's breast-milk. Achilles was nursed by a mortal. He never had any powers.
4) Unlike Achilles, Hurcules is actually cognitively superior. For example: his tricking Atlas to hold the earth on his shoulders again, (even achilles didn't have enough strength to do that nor the intellegence) and could even reverse previous curses Gods placed on mortals (such as when Hercules frees Prometheus from his torture)
5) Hercules didn't need training, unlike Achilles, already making him inferior. Hercules showed a natural talent killing snakes in his bed at an early age, harmed Hera by sucking on her titties, and wrestling with mortals was easy for him.
6) Finally, it is agreed by ALL aincent Greeks and Romans, that Hercules is the greatest Greek Warrior. When he sheds his mortal skin and rises to the heavens, it is claimed he is in fact the Greatest hero. Even superior to Achilles. His feats were things only Achilles could aspire to do.

Achilles would get decimated by Hercules. Hercules is stronger, smarter, more godly, more prudent, and literally defied the Gods. Achilles was forced to obey Gods (implying inferiority).

I turn it over to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 1
avery6652

Pro

I would first like to address con's comment to i have clearly not read the Iliad. I have read the Iliad and is clearly states of Achilles leading His forces into battle against the Trojans.

Now secondly, i have never read ANY mythological book claiming that Achilles is the son of Zues and proves Con didn,t read the section were i clearly wrote out Achilles parent. Since i have to repeat myself, Achilles proven parents are Thetis and Peleus. Thetis is the daughter of the Primvordal God of water( Nereus). This makes Achilles a demi-god.

You then stated that that Poes shoots Paris and causing victory to the Achaeans, but if you read the Iliad you would know that the Trojan Horse indeed won the Greeks the war and the Trojan Horse because it allowed the Greeks to literally burn down all of Troy. The Trojan Horse was indeed the idea of Achilles.

You then mention that Hercules has gone on many quest including the 12 labors, but what you fail to realize is the only reason that he was able to do these quest were because of his enormous strength not because of battle skills. You then state that Achilles wines moans and complained, but that has nothing to do with the argument at hand which is who would win in a swords fight. Although he did do the things you listed above, this does not exuse Achilles amazing battle skills and his inevitability.

In you 1st bullet you say that Zues would just tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles, but this defines Zues's very law that gods aren't to affair in the aids of men. So he would not tell Hercules about Achilles heal.Also you later state in that same bullet that Zues would tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles because of the prophecy of him being over thrown. If you read the early Greek Mythology, he had a wife before Hera named Metis, and Metis holds the baby that would overthrow Zues, and that's the reason that he ate her.

Hercules wouldn't commit attacks out of blood lust?!!? Hercules was very arrogant in Greek myths and would often kill people out of blind fits of rage! Achilles never left his heal untended and most certainly did not ATTACK out of blood lust.You stated that Achilles committed attacks out of blood lust, this is incorrect as he did acts out of blood lust but never just foolishly attacked somebody.

Achilles did have powers as he was immortal from every part of his body except heal.This is a power. Although Hercules strength is much greater than Achilles his strength will do him no good if he doesn't know about Achilles ankle.Hercules wasn't trained but that didn't mean he didn't needed to be trained. As i stated earlier, the only reason Hercules was able to complete those task were because of STRENGTH not SKILL. Wrestling mortals was of course easy to him because of his tremendous strength.Then you state that Achillies couldn't do the labors of Hercules but this is only a assumption as he never tried to do the labors of Hercules. Just as Hercules has strength, Achilles has inevitability.

What i would like to hear from Con is how Hercules strength would match against Achilles Ineventabillity. Also i dont hear any way Hercules would win in a sword fight. Also you never bother to bring up Hercules lack of weapon skill against a extremely skilled swordsman and strategist.

Hercules would be easily defeated by Achilles. Achilles is more experienced, smarter, invulnerable.

With all that said, i pass the table back to Con.
TheHitchslap

Con

I have read the Iliad for aincent political philosophy. The two factions fighting was the Achaeans and the Trojans, both of which were located in Greece. And the Achaeans were under the command of Agamemnon. NOT Achilles. Achilles refuses to fight due to his issues with Agamemnon, however Achilles' forces continue to fight without him, hence the death of his best friend. Otherwise that death would not have occured, as he was also an advisor to Achilles.

Critical Mistakes My Opponent Makes:
1) I was very clear, it was thought or claimed that Achilles would be the son of Zeus. Not that he actually was, however it does seem plausable. In the book Bibliotheke by Pseudo-Apollodorus Zeus and Thetis dated. Same as Thetis and Posideon. In fact, due to the prophecy of Themis, Thetis is forced to marry a mortal, so it is plausable hence thought. As Themis claims that the son of Thetis would overthrow Zeus if she mated with another God. Thus, Metis was not the only holder of the Great Baby.
2) I never claimed Poes shooting Paris offically ends the battle what I clearly implied was that it was a contributing factor as the eventual fall of Troy follows. Please read my statements more carefully. Either way, the impact of Hercules' adventures does appear in the Trojan War. Signaling superiority.
3) The ability for Hercules to accomplish his labors was not simply because of brute strength. In fact, one of the cases was his run-in with Atlas in which cunning was needed. My opponent completely drops this point. I never denied that Hercules had brute strength as a leading factor in his abilities.
4) Zeus does not in fact have a "law" about refraining from human interaction. That's an outright lie. Thetis begs Zeus to aid Achilles in stopping the Achaean forces, and because Zeus was fond of Tory, almost annihilates the Achaean forces for revenge against the precieved greivances Achilles had with Agamemnon. In fact, Zeus forces Thetis to marry a mortal to ensure his position as the King of Gods. Zeus interferes plenty with mortals. In fact if he didn't then Hercules would NOT have been born. It is also why Hera hates most of his mortal children, Zeus was known to have sex with mortals causing demi-gods.

Other Counters:
- Achilles whining, moaning, and complaining displays a complete disregard for his role as a commander in the Iliad. Which in my opinion is signifigant. It showed how reliant he is upon his mother for assistance in the War, which is a weakness distinctly attributed to Achilles. Hercules does not have such a heavy reliance on the Gods. Hercules 1, Achilles 0
- Zeus who has a vested interest in killing Achilles if this was the case (to ensure his son would not be killed) would simply inform Hercules of Achilles' weakspot. Ending any hope Achilles would win. As noted above, this is logically sound, as Zeus does interfere in mortal matters. That's 2 Hercules!
- I also noted that he was more prudent than Achilles. This is for several reasons: Rage is a central theme in Homer's Iliad, espescially as to how it impacts Achilles and even the first word in the book is literally "Rage", secondly Hercules' blind fit of rage at first was because Hera drove him mad, not because he had a tempor. Hera, Zeus' wife who hated his illegitimate children often did things to torment them. That's 3 for Hercules folks!
- Actually in the death of Patrocleus, yes Achilles kills Hector in a blind fit of rage. I have no idea what your taking about. And due to his death, yes it is reasonable to presume that his heal would be exposed.
- Actually Hercules is trained in several arts. Being Greek he would have been trained in wrestling, and was known to be trained in Archery, he beat King Eurytus of Oechalia's sons in the contest. Thus he was trained....we'll call this one a draw

My opponent's argument simply rests on the fallacy of begging the question. His premis and conclusions are circular. What his argument can be sunmmarized as is "but he's immortal! but he's immortal! No, he wouldn't hit his heal! He's immortal!" But my opponent never actually counters the fact that in their respective stories Achilles actually dies, while Hercules does not, he rises up to Mount Olympius. And in that novel, in the final paragraph, the Greeks who wrote his story literally reffered to him as "The Greatest Greek Warrior", a clear signal of superiority over Achilles. Finally, what my opponent does on ill-founded logic is completely ignore my argument as to how Hercules would win in a one on one sword fight.

How would he win? As I noted before, Zeus would simply have to tell Hercules Achilles' weakspot. And that would be the end of Achilles. Just because your immortal everywhere else does not mean your not subjected to physical punishment. What if Hercules picked him up and bear hugged Achilles? Achilles would be 1) hurt and 2) still alive yes we both agree here. However, all Hercules has to do with the tremendus strenght is hold down Achilles and nail the heal. The game would be over in an instant. My opponent never shows any form of reason why Zeus wouldn't tell Hercules. My opponent makes one final mistake: Hercules' only weakness was Hydra blood soacked tunic. And even then that did not harm is immortal side, only his mortal side.

Therefore we can conlude that not only did the Greeks agree that Hercules was a far better warrior than Achilles, but there can be no doubt -- I think -- that Hercules would decimate Achilles in a one on one sword fight.

My opponent can try again. Please actually address all of my arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
avery6652

Pro

I would like to apologize for my absence, i have been really busy lately. Sorry for my gods cant interfere with the affairs of mortals.( i was watching Immortals while typing that section of the debate.)es.

You stated that it was very clear that it was claimed that Achilles was the son of Zues, but it was very clearly stated by me and Greek mythology that Thetis and Peleus are the parents of Achilles not Zues. So why con constantly brings this up i don't know.

You then claim that you never said the Poes shooting Paris ends the battle, but you did because this is the exact statement you posted." Hercules, as his bow and arrow -upon turning into a God- is given to Poeas who shoots Paris, causing his death and the eventual victory for the Achaeans."YOu state that i need to read you statements more clearly but what if you need to write your statement clearer.

Whiles tricking Atlas into holding the world is cunning, this has nothing to do with Hercules's sword abillites and would not benefit him in a benefit him in a battle against Achilles.

I would also like to clear up Con's ASSUMPTION of Zues telling Hercules how to defeat Achilles. There no evidence that Zues would tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles in a battle so this is merely a assuption Cons made. With that, this leads me to my next argument in which what Hercules would do if Zues didn't tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles.

Con then mention Hercules training in arts, and archerey but that would not help Hercules in a sword battle, Achilles clearly has an advantage against Hercules in weapons skill.

Con's main argument is that Zues will hopefully tell Hercules how to defeat Achilles. Con's argument has been one big assumption with facts, but not facts on how Hercules would be able to defeat Achilles in a sword fight. Con then statement the Greeks who wrote his story literally referred to him as "The Greatest Greek Warrior". This statement is a complete opinion.

How Achilles would win? Well, while Hercules is swinging his sword foolishly around Achilles would simply wear him down and kill him. End of battle. I would the like to state Con saying that Hercules could just get Achilles in a bear hug and as con says" nail him in the heal". What i don't understand is how Hercules would be able to wrap his arms around a Extremely well trained swordsman and squeeze him until his bones are broken and puncture his heel.

I would then like to state all of the advantages both warriors have.

Achilles:
Strategy
Invulnerably
Technique
Sword Abiliity

Hercules:
Strength
Cunning

To conclude this debate Achilles is the far better warrior. i have proven all of my information with facts as Con's arguments are merely assumptions of what Zues MIGHT do. I would like to thank Con for taking time out of his day to do this debate, i appreciate it.

Achilles has Strategy, Technique, sword ability and Inevitability. Achilles is clearly the better warrior.

Vote pro for facts vote con for assumtions.
TheHitchslap

Con

Thanks! Your apology is dearly noted.

My opponents lies:
1) "Con then statement the Greeks who wrote his story literally referred to him as "The Greatest Greek Warrior". This statement is a complete opinion."

Actually, in researching Hercules, countless sources declare him the Greatest Greek Warrior due to him accomplishing seemingly impossible tasks. For example: http://www.infoplease.com... or here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu... or even here: http://en.wikipedia.org...
or here: http://ezinearticles.com...

Thought experiment: if in theory Hercules was not the Greatest Greek Warrior, why would Zeus make him Champion Defender of Mt Olympus?

2) "Con then mention Hercules training in arts, and archery but that would not help Hercules in a sword battle, Achilles clearly has an advantage against Hercules in weapons skill." and "Hercules wasn't trained but that didn't mean he didn't needed to be trained. As I stated earlier, the only reason Hercules was able to complete those task were because of STRENGTH not SKILL. Wrestling mortals was of course easy to him because of his tremendous strength."

In bibliotheca verse 2.4.9 Hercules' training in swords, bow and arrow, and wrestling is noted. As I have contended the entire time, he WAS a trained warrior.

3) No evidence that Zeus would interfere in mortal affairs (Wouldn't tell Hercules).

.....do I even have to counter this? Hercules' birth alone is evidence enough that Zeus would interfere and inform Hercules of Achilles' weak spot. In fact Zeus even interferes in the fall of Troy in Homer's Iliad. And he has numerous demi-gods because of his infidelity. If that isn't evidence enough that Zeus would inform Hercules because he was known to interfere, I don't know what is! I don't think my opponent knows what evidence exactly is ...

4) I somehow claimed Hercules caused the Fall of Troy through Poes shooting Paris with his Bow

The eventual fall of Troy was indicating a series of events, not that it caused it, I NEVER claimed that with the death of Paris, somehow everyone just packs it in and goes home. Not even close. I showed that Hercules did have an impact as to how the Trojan War played out, but that was it.

5) To conclude this debate Achilles is the far better warrior. I have proved all of my information with facts as Con's arguments are merely assumptions of what Zeus MIGHT do. I would like to thank Con for taking time out of his day to do this debate, I appreciate it.

I never assumed anything, I based my opinion on previous events that Zeus has engaged in. It would be reasonable to suggest that Hercules would be aware of Achilles weak spot and seek to expose it to his advantage. But that facts? Hercules is trained warrior is a fact, my opponent disregards this to make his point. What facts is he talking about? He claims Achilles is far more strategic, yet he never has to use his strategy in the Iliad, in fact he relies heavily on the Gods for assistance during the epic, while Hercules has to use his cunning several times in the 12 labours, the most noted being tricking Atlas into holding the sky again. Lets talk facts my dear opponent, because it is YOU who assumes, and formulated a debate on a baseless subjective opinion.

Finally, there is several reasons to believe in Greek Mythology Achilles would get whooped by Hercules. First, as I had pointed out earlier, Hercules' only known weakness was the blood stained tunic. Which wouldn't be used in a sword fight. In fact anyone who knows about Hercules knows that his skin was so tough it alone was like armour, never mind everything else he had. In fact unlike Achilles, Hercules actually never dies. He is saved by Zeus and is brought up to Mount Olympus due to his demi-god status, and only his mortal side is burned off due to the tunic. NOT his immortal side.
Why is this significant? Because as I have noted over and over again, Achilles actually does die. Sure he has a cult following after, but he does actually die. Meaning that Hercules was obviously far superior as he is now the Champion of Mount Olympus, and shows the audience that Hercules cannot die, while the inferior Achilles actually can die. Meaning regardless of the weapon, swords or not, Hercules will always defeat Achilles.

Finally, my opponents argument is incredibly weak. He rests on question begging; that because Achilles cannot be harmed except by his ankle that anything Hercules does to him won't work. Yet he still has a weakness: HIS ANKLE. And even though he is immortal everywhere else, he does still have a weak spot. Something my opponent failed to overcome.

Who has won here? Well:
My opponent dropped several of my points. First, he wrongly claims Hercules does not have any training, when in fact he does. Secondly, he only claims cunning is irrelevant here only after he drops my point. Yet it still is relevant here, strategy defeats strength, in fact some of the labours show this as well. (Not all, some)
Third, he only shows us how Achilles COULD win in theory. But fails to rebuttal my point that Hercules was only harmed by the blood soaked tunic. That was literally the only thing that harmed him. Unlike Achilles, who is killed by his ankle. And as I pointed out with Hercules' brute strength, once he gets a hold of Achilles and pins him down, and strikes that ankle, it's game over for Achilles. I never stated bear hugging would kill Achilles, what I stated was that if Hercules did do that, Achilles would still be hurt, just not dead. And my point was clear too: that Achilles once cornered and at the mercy of the power and awe of Hercules, It won't matter how much sword training Achilles has, once in the pin and Hercules hits the weakness, that's all she wrote.

The signal of a won debate is when someone drops a point. My opponent dropped 3 against me. I dropped none.

My opponent tries to LIE several times in the debate. I caught him on it. Look it up for yourself if need be.

And finally, I formulated an argument in which not only explained why Hercules was better than Achilles, but how it would logically play out based on Zeus, Achilles, and Hercules' respective stories in Greek Mythology.

If not anything, at least unlike my opponent I knew the difference between the Achaean and Trojans .. another point he drops.

Vote for FACTS the real facts, the facts I actually SHOWED unlike my opponent. Vote for an argument that does not rest on a fallacy, and is consistent in Greek Mythology. Vote for principal: that lies are not accepted in a debate.

Case and point:

Vote for Facts, Vote for Hercules ; Vote for CON!


“Saint Petersburg in revolt gave us Vladimir Nabokov, Isaiah Berlin, and Ayn Rand. The first was a novelist, the second a philosopher. The third was neither but thought she was both.”
R13; Corey Robin
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by tonym82 1 month ago
tonym82
You keep using achiles invulnerability as a upside when even as a demi God Hercules achieved immortality after his labors. That said even if achiles beats him in sword fighting he has an advantage in strength,archery, and invulnerability and before you say he was a god while immortal he wasn't a god until he was raised to the heavens. Hercules would win for sure.
Posted by drafterman 1 year ago
drafterman
My mentioning of the sources wasn't as a ding, I merely did it for my own purposes. Not very many sources were cited on both sides.
Posted by avery6652 1 year ago
avery6652
Thanks for all of your responses and next time i will cite all of my sources.
Posted by drafterman 1 year ago
drafterman
Point 1: Training
Support: Achilles trained by Chiron, who trained almost every famous Greek hero (unsourced)
Support: Hercules not trained (unsourced)
- Refutation: Training not needed; Hercules has natural talent (unsourced)
-- Resupport: Hercules succeeded out of strength, not skill (unsourced)
- Refutation: Hercules was trained with the sword (sourced)

Summary: Initially it appeared that Con was conceding that Hercules wasn't trained, succeeding as a result of pure talent. Ultimately Con defends the notion that Hercules is trained. Both are trained, a wash.

Point 2: Physical abilities
Support: Achilles immortality trumps Hercules strength (unsourced)
- Refutation: Hercules can still inflict harm and damage (unsourced)
Support: Hercules does not know about Achilles only weakness (unsourced)
- Refutation: Would be told of weakness by Zeus (unsourced)
-- Resupport: Gods wouldn't interfere in the affairs of mortals (unsourced)
--- Refutation: Counter examples (Zeus constantly interferes) (unsourced)
---- Resupport: No reason to believe that Zeus would do this (unsourced)
----- Refutation: Zeus has enmity toward Achilles and affinity toward Hercules (unsourced)

Summary: On the one hand, I think Zeus' interference would be out of the conditions of the fight. The fight is between Achilles and Hercules. Non-interference should be assumed. However, Pro never made this point and accepted it as within the scope of the fight, just not likely to happen. Con supports the notion that, if allowed, Zeus would interfere on behalf of Hercules. Point to Con.

- more -
Posted by drafterman 1 year ago
drafterman
Point 3: Combat Abilities
Support: Hercules is reckless; uses brute strength (unsourced)
- Refutation: Hercules would be prudent (unsourced)
-- Resupport: Hercules often killed people out of blind rage (unsourced)
Support: Achilles is trained to use tactics and strategies (unsourced)
- Refutation: Achilles is subject to blood-lust and would expose weakness (unsourced)
-- Resupport: Achilles never left weakness exposed (unsourced)
Support: Hercules has no skill with weapons (unsourced)
- Refutation: Hercules was trained with the sword (sourced)

Summary: Both went back and forth about this. I didn't see any indication that one was more skilled than the other. A wash.

Rebuttal 1: Mental Abilities
Support: Hercules is smarter, having tricked other divine beings (unsourced)
- Refutation: Irrelevant to a sword fight (unsourced)

Summary: It seems clear that Hercules has intelligence, but this wasn't really tied to a sword fight.

Rebuttal 2: Acknowledgement
Support: All ancient Greeks and Romans acknowledge Hercules as the greatest Greek Hero (sourced)

Summary: Sourced and uncontested.

====

Overall Summary:
Ultimately we have two Greek Heroes, both with combat skill and training. However, Hercules is the uncontested greatest Greek Hero and his strength would probably allow him to overcome Achilles enough to exploit his weakness. Arguments go to Con.
Posted by GeekiTheGreat 1 year ago
GeekiTheGreat
Now those are some weird profile pics.
Posted by avery6652 1 year ago
avery6652
Thank You. lol
Posted by effimero89 1 year ago
effimero89
Now this is what I call a debate!! Not a bunch of douche's posting arguments one after another ending with links to another website....
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by drafterman 1 year ago
drafterman
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments
Vote Placed by EvanK 1 year ago
EvanK
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: 3 dropped points by pro. Only con used sources. Good debate all around. In the end, con wins in my eyes.
Vote Placed by DakotaKrafick 1 year ago
DakotaKrafick
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter Apeiron's retributive vote.
Vote Placed by Apeiron 1 year ago
Apeiron
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con said, "My opponents lies" ... which is a moral characterization, not appropriate for debate. He could have said Pro is mistaken, etc. I'll be voting more on this later since it interests me.. but note that the conduct point is valid, in this debate, http://www.debate.org/debates/The-Leibnizian-Cosmological-Argument-is-Sound-2/1/ ...RoyLatham calls for a conduct vote since his opponent mentioned lying.
Vote Placed by Subutai 1 year ago
Subutai
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter leojm.
Vote Placed by leojm 1 year ago
leojm
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: He had the best, and most understoood
Vote Placed by Walrus101 1 year ago
Walrus101
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: This is stupid. Absurdly so.
Vote Placed by MassiveDump 1 year ago
MassiveDump
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: Stop it Geeki.
Vote Placed by GeekiTheGreat 1 year ago
GeekiTheGreat
avery6652TheHitchslapTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:11 
Reasons for voting decision: tqa