The Instigator
OtakuJordan
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
telisw37
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Adam and Christ are not synonymous

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
OtakuJordan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,044 times Debate No: 43189
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

OtakuJordan

Pro

Con challenged me to debate him again and so I decided to debate against his pet theory, the Adam-God doctrine.

The first round will be for acceptance only. Best of luck.
telisw37

Con

Welcome! I accept this challenge not to change the minds of those to deny the written word of God. But to improve my writing skills and knowledge of the simple truth.

The whole world waits for the restoration of Eden, (Who was at the Head?)
Rom_8:22, For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
All religions agree that a man named Christ existed.
The bible has 300+ prophecies leading to the virgin birth of Christ, being born of the seed of Adam fulfilling being the Root of David who Prevailed.
1st. Witness: Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
2nd. Witness: Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
The bible is a detailed record of the family of Adam who married Eve (Who became Israel by birth, bloodlines and real families) later called a whore who was beguiled by Satan not a talking snake.

2Co_11:1, Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2Co_11:2, For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co_11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co_11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co_11:5, For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
2Co_11:6, But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
2Co_11:7, Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?

Christ on the Cross in Genesis 3.

" Gen 3:17 And unto Adam (Christ not virgin born yet.) he (The same voice in the clouds who spoke This is my beloved son and who I am well pleased! ) said Because thou (Adam/Christ) hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife(Eve=Israel) and hast eaten of the tree (CROSS!) of which I (Voice from clouds) commanded thee saying Thou shalt not eat of it:(Take sin upon yourself!) cursed is the ground for thy sake;(Your royal bloodline of David, mixed with Satan!) in sorrow (Christ a man of sorrows!) shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles (Crown of thorns!!!!!) shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Fig tree no figs!) Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground; (Lords supper before the cross!) for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:20 And Adam (Christ) called his wife's name Eve; (Israel) because she was the mother of all living. Not in Christ then you are dead! Not meaning Eve actually did not birth all races of people.

Footnotes:
Voice from heaven.
Mat_3:17, And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat_17:5, While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mar_1:11, And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar_9:7, And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Man of sorrows.
Isa_53:3, He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Crown of thorns.
Mat_27:29, And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Mar_15:17, And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
Joh_19:2, And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

Lords Supper.
Luk_22:7, Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

Luk_22:8, And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk_22:9, And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
Luk_22:10, And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk_22:11, And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Fig Tree Know that Adam and Eve were in a Fig Grove. Not a Apple patch! " Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons.

Mat_21:19, And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mat_21:20, And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Mat_21:21, Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat_24:32, Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mar_11:13, And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Mar_11:20, And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar_11:21, And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar_13:28, Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Debate Round No. 1
OtakuJordan

Pro

Rebuttals

Responding to my opponent's speech is a bit difficult, as I honestly have no idea what he was trying to say. He copied and pasted a litany of Bible verses unrelated to the topic at hand (as far as I can see, at least) and then failed to expound on them and show how they prove his point.

With the few verses that he did expound upon, his explanations were just as off-topic as the verses. The only connection I can find between Adam and Christ in the verses Con presented is that both of their stories involve figs, which is hardly a convincing proof of the Adam-God doctrine. The psalmist mentions sycamore fruit in Psalm 78:47 and the prophet Amos does so as well in Amos 7:14. Does my opponent believe that Amos and the psalmist were also the same person because of this connection?

Contentions

I shall now present several arguments as to why the Adam-God doctrine is patently false.

Contention #1 - Christ could not have created himself
John opens his gospel with these words: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."[1]

This clearly identifies Christ with God as the creator of all things. Within the creation story, God creates Adam: "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."[2] Obviously, it is absurd to believe that God created himself and then breathed life into himself.

On another note, it is equally absurd though not quite as impossible to believe that God put himself to sleep in order to remove a rib from himself (Genesis 1:21), to hide from himself (Genesis 2:8), to be afraid of himself (Genesis 2:10), to curse himself (Genesis 2:17-19) and to banish himself from the garden that he had created (Genesis 2:23-24).

Contention #2 - Christ did not sin but Adam did
The Bible clearly states that Christ was sinless and that Adam was not.

"Christ was without sin, but for our sake God made him share our sin in order that in union with him we might share the righteousness of God." -2 Corinthians 5:21

"If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom[...]" -Job 31:33

Contention #3 - The Bible clearly contrasts Christ with Adam
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!" -Romans 5:12-17

Sin entered the world by Adam, but by the grace of Jesus Christ are we saved.

I look forward to Con's response.

Sources
1. John 1:1-3
2. Genesis 2:7
telisw37

Con

Hello all!
I will quickly address the contentions.
Contention #1 I totally agree that Adam could not create Himself. Because the bible says Adam was formed. My opponent is totally ignorant of the Hebrew meaning of FORMED.
Strongs# 3335 ya star= Squeezed into the potter, divine activity.
Gen 2:5-7 Declares that Adam was formed to til the ground=make plants grow. Also this was singular, where in Gen.1:26 these people were CREATED IN THE IMAGE! Adam got the breath of God! Is what is written.
Contention#2 Adam sinned or paid the price for Eve, because in her womb was Noah, Abraham, David and the 12 tribes and Christ Himself=Adam's way to return virgin born.
" 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. "
To be the Christ is why Adam did it.
Contention#3
My Higher Criticizing opponent puts his limits on the Almighty? Duh??????? (Sorry I do not care if I lose points for being nice!)
Col_2:2, That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father (ADAM IS WAS THE FATHER OF CHRIST,) and of Christ;
1Ti_3:16, And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, (CHRIST CAME THROUGH THE BLOODLINE OF ADAM) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Rev_10:7, But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The word "adam" has three meanings!
" H0120 "Means mankind. H119 means Red Ruddy!

#0120 אָדָם 'adam {aw-dawm'}

from H0119; TWOT - 25a; n m
"Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) man, mankind
1a) man, human being
1b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
1c) Adam, first man
1d) city in Jordan valley
"Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H0119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):"X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
"Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
#120.
אָדָם
adam (9a); from an unused word; man, mankind:"
NASB - any man(2), anyone(4), anyone's(1), being*(1), common sort*(1), human(19), infantry(1), low degree*(1), low*(1), man(363), man's(20), man*(1), mankind(9), men(104), men of low degree*(1), men's(3), men*(4), mortal(1), one(3), people(1), person(5), person*(1), persons(3), population(1), someone(1).

Adam also is the first man of Palistine=Jesus Christ!

" H0121 "

#0121 אָדָם 'Adam {aw-dawm'}

the same as H0120; TWOT - 25a; n pr m
"Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

Adam = "red"
1) first man
2) city in Jordan valley
"Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
The same as H0120; Adam, the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine:"Adam.

Many religions say that Adam and Eve is the parents of all races. Another religious error!
Adam and Eve is the parents of Israel and the 12 tribes. Abraham did father many nations. But Egypt was all ready there. Abraham came from Ur.
Did Adam"s red ruddy kids turn black? Or Brown? Or did God set a trap for Adam?
Did God actually create Nations with no people? Host?=PEOPLE!
" Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. "
Who is the Lord of Hosts???????? Adam=Christ=Root of David=He the man who was with God in John 1;1 The Offspring of David saying Christ=Adam was His own father and Son of David.

" Gen 2:10 And a river went out (Notice outside.) of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted and became into four heads. Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah where there is gold; (Is my opponents saying God made gold for cows=the golden calf, and not the people of the land named by Adam?) Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. (Is my opponents saying God cast His pearls before swine and animals who was there because no humans existed outside of Eden?) Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia .(BLACK PEOPLE!!!!!!) Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. (No brown/Arab people here either??????) And the fourth river is Euphrates. "

Lord of host
(Found 244 times in 234 verses)
Is my opponent is saying God is the Lord of the animals and not people too? Host not races of human beings?
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. "

Adam=Christ AGAIN FOR THE BLIND WHO HAVE EYES BUT SEE NOT!

" Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word (Adam was with God not all of mankind!!!) was with God and the Word was God(Adam was with God not all of mankind!!!) Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.(Adam was with God not all of mankind!!!) Joh 1:3 All things were made by him;(Adam was with God not all of mankind!!!) and without him was not any thing made that was made.(Adam was with God not all of mankind!!!) Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (MAN DID NOT MAKE HIMSELF! NOR COULD BE HIS OWN LIGHT!) Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. "
Yet my opponents says that Adam was a man and not God, did He=Adam keep his eyes closed while walking with God in the cool of the day??????
" Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father he hath declared him. "
" Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam and said unto him Where art thou?

Adams genealogy creates and poem that points to Christ! Divine no accident.

Hebrew - English
Adam = Man
Seth =Appointed
Enosh= Mortal
Kenan= Sorrow;
Mahalalel = The Blessed God
Jared = Shall come down
Enoch = Teaching
Methuselah = His death shall bring
Lamech = The Despairing
Noah = Rest, or comfort.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.
Debate Round No. 2
OtakuJordan

Pro

Thank you for you reply, Con.

"Contention #1 I totally agree that Adam could not create Himself. Because the bible says Adam was formed. My opponent is totally ignorant of the Hebrew meaning of FORMED.
Strongs# 3335 ya star= Squeezed into the potter, divine activity.
Gen 2:5-7 Declares that Adam was formed to til the ground=make plants grow. Also this was singular, where in Gen.1:26 these people were CREATED IN THE IMAGE! Adam got the breath of God! Is what is written."

The Strong's Concordance entry for "yatsar" (not "ya star") states that it means formed in the instance of Genesis 2:7. The word is used in reference to pottery-making in Isaiah, 1 Chronicles and Psalms, to be sure, but it certainly does not carry that connotation in any Genesis verse.[1]

I am not sure why my opponent believes there to be a practical difference between "formed" and "created" in this case. Strong's lists several other verses that use yatsar in the same nuanced way as Genesis 2:7, and they have to do with obvious acts of creation.[2] For example, Isaiah 45:18, which reads: "For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else."

"Contention#2 Adam sinned or paid the price for Eve, because in her womb was Noah, Abraham, David and the 12 tribes and Christ Himself=Adam's way to return virgin born.
" 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. "
To be the Christ is why Adam did it.

1 Timothy 2:13-14 does not mean that Adam did not sin, but that Adam sinned after Eve did. The second chapter of 1 Timothy focuses on Paul's view of the roles of men and women in the church. Paul uses the fact that Adam sins after Eve does in the Genesis metaphor to argue his complementarian viewpoint.

Also, my opponent failed to explain why Job refers to Adam as being sinful while 2 Corinthians refers to Christ as sinless.

My opponent provided no evidence that Adam sought to return virgin-born.

Contention#3
My Higher Criticizing opponent puts his limits on the Almighty? Duh??????? (Sorry I do not care if I lose points for being nice!)

Given that my third contention was that "The Bible clearly contrasts Christ with Adam," I believe that my opponent responded to the wrong contention here. He was most likely trying to respond to my first contention, "Christ could not have created himself." My actual third contention went completely unrefuted.

While God may be all-powerful, this does not allow him to work outside of the laws of logic or to violate his own nature. My opponent has made the common mistake of conflating omnipotence, the ability to act outside the laws of physics, with the ability to act outside the laws of logic. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated or implied that God can or tries to do so.

"[...]"

My opponent then proceeds to list verses as well as the etymology of Hebrew words that have no apparent bearing on the issue at hand.

Sources
1. http://lexiconcordance.com...
2. Ibid.
telisw37

Con

My opponent should just admit he was wrong about Adam being formed and not created. He also stated his opinion, meaning my opponent claims to be smarter than Dr Strongs who wrote the Strongs Concordance that explains what is lost in translation. Wow!
Contention #1
Anyone can Google the truth and see who lies.
Formed #3335 means squeezed into, the potter
Created #1254 say absolutely created.

Contention #2
Hey I did not write it. Not my plan! My opponent boasts that Adam (The Alpha of the bible.) was sinful. Or did God in flesh activate the plan of God. God gave Himself for all and Eve!
Rev_13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev_13:9, If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Contention #3
God left His bloodline record. The beginning of the line of David was is Adam...................
Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
My opponent discredited Adam saying He did nothing but sin and die. That is a bold faced lie. Because it is written that Adam named everything in the beginning. Not so easy to name every plant, animal, bug, fish, fruit tree and the base nations named in Genesis. I bet my higher criticizing opponent does not know the names of everything in creation.
" Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature that was the name thereof. Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle and to the fowl of the air and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Debate Round No. 3
OtakuJordan

Pro

"My opponent should just admit he was wrong about Adam being formed and not created. He also stated his opinion, meaning my opponent claims to be smarter than Dr Strongs who wrote the Strongs Concordance that explains what is lost in translation. Wow!
Contention #1
Anyone can Google the truth and see who lies.
Formed #3335 means squeezed into, the potter
Created #1254 say absolutely created."

I absolutely did not claim to be "smarter thant Dr Strongs [sic]" and what I stated was not my opinion but rather further information from Strong's Concordance that my opponent neglected to share. Voters, please verify everything I said yourself by visiting this link: http://lexiconcordance.com...

"Contention #2
Hey I did not write it. Not my plan! My opponent boasts that Adam (The Alpha of the bible.) was sinful. Or did God in flesh activate the plan of God. God gave Himself for all and Eve!
Rev_13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev_13:9, If any man have an ear, let him hear."

This contention makes no sense and the verses listed are irrelevant.

"Contention #3
God left His bloodline record. The beginning of the line of David was is Adam...................
Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

My opponent has finally posted some Bible verses relevant to the topic at hand. I shall explain why he has interpreted each improperly.

Although Luke 3:38 does indeed refer to Adam as "the son of God," he was not the Son of God in the sense that Christ is. Romans 8:14 refers to all believers as sons of God, but clearly this does not mean that we are each Jesus Christ. As the well-known John 3:16 points out, Christ is the only natural Son of God, fulfilling his timeless role as that facet of the Trinity. Adam was the son of God in the sense that he is created by God in the Genesis metaphor rather than being born of human parents.

As for Revelation 5:5 and 22:16, God established David's kingdom in 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 and was also born of the line of David as the Christ in the gospels, making him both the root and the offspring of the line of David.

"My opponent discredited Adam saying He did nothing but sin and die. That is a bold faced lie. Because it is written that Adam named everything in the beginning. Not so easy to name every plant, animal, bug, fish, fruit tree and the base nations named in Genesis. I bet my higher criticizing opponent does not know the names of everything in creation.
" Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature that was the name thereof. Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle and to the fowl of the air and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

I never said any such thing. Even if I had, what would that prove?

Conclusion

To sum up this debate, my opponent has presented some very tenuous similarities between the story of Adam in Genesis and the story of Christ in the gospels. This naturally does not mean that Adam and Christ are one and the same. To prove this, let us consider the many similarities between the story of Joseph and Jesus. Both were betrayed by those closest to them (Joseph by his brothers and Jesus by his disciple), both were sold for thirty pieces of silver (Joseph into slavery and Jesus into the hands of the religious leaders), both were accused of and punished for a crime they did not commit (Joseph of adultery and Christ of blasphemy and insurrection) and both were placed into positions of power after their ordeals (Joseph as the right hand man of the king of Egypt and Jesus at the right hand of God.) These are only a handful of the many parallels between the two.[1]

Does my opponent also believe that Joseph was an incarnation of Christ? Of course not. So why should similarities between Adam and Christ make them one and the same? As Paul says, Adam was a "pattern" or a "figure" (depending on your translation) of the one to come, meaning Christ.[2] This explains any similarity between the two.

Sources
1. http://www.christtheonlyway.com...
2. Romans 5:12-17
telisw37

Con

My opponent said here that Adam and Christ are NOT synonymous.
I will show again many. The garden of Eden is a parable that tells a true story. Surly my opponent does not claim that snakes can talk. Or Eve ate a apple and got pregnant with Cain. Or that Cain was Adam's son. Cain was not Adam's son. Understanding the figures of speech is key. But it say's right there...................

Genesis 3:17 The curse put on Adam but fulfilled by Christ.
" Gen 3:17 And unto Adam (1.Christ not virgin born yet) he said Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife and hast eaten of the tree(2.Cross) of which I commanded thee saying Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground(3. David's bloodline) for thy sake; in sorrow (4. Man of sorrows) shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles(5.Crown of thorns) shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face (6.Sweating in Gethsemane) shalt thou eat bread(7.Lord's Supper) till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. " Right there is seven points that make Christ and Adam very similar.
Next my opponent said that potter in the word formed was taking about clay. I said #3335 refered to squeezing into shape the potter was written in Strongs. Not clay pots.
Second witness: Isa_43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Who was with God in the beginning? Adam! Joh_1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ADAM OR ALL OF MANKIND?)
Joh_1:2, The same was in the beginning with God. (ADAM OR ALL OF MANKIND?)
Joh_1:3, All things were made by him (ADAM OR ALL OF MANKIND?); and without him was not any thing made that was made.
My opponent ignores the fact that the bible gave a detailed account of Adam's bloodline starting with Adam ending with the virgin birth of Christ. Also that Adam was is the first man of Palestine Strongs #121. Not Strongs #120 meaning low common man.
Christ claimed to be the Root of David. My opponent thinks Christ does not know who He is. LOL!
Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
If the volume of the bible was written about the flesh man Christ who was Emmanuel meaning God with us actually was born then He began with Adam. Not with Mary in the New Testament.
Psa_40:7, Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Heb_10:7, Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Next if Adam was not Christ the Alpha of the bible, Who is? I rest my case!
Rev_1:8, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev_1:11, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev_21:6, And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev_22:13, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Debate Round No. 4
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
1970vu babbles about what is written in Matthew Duh? That is a record of Joseph's family line that leads back to Solomon because Mary came through Nathan David's other son. Can you say virgin birth DUH?
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
I am talking about what is actually in the bible. Not your religion. If your religion deny's the deity if Adam then it is rooted on a lie. Making the sheepeople babble lies about the Root of David. I say 99.9% of all religions are totally false. Your are proof as well. Adam was God is what the bible teaches. The rest is pure babble.
Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
You deny that Adam is the Root of David? The first father of David's bloodline!
1Jo_2:18, Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo_2:22, Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo_4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo_1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Posted by OtakuJordan 3 years ago
OtakuJordan
A. I never claimed to follow my pastor.
B. Again, what makes you think that I am lying and not simply of a different theological persuasion.
C. I never said that Christ was a theologian.
D. Even if I had, I would not have been incorrect given that "theology" is the study of God. Christ certainly taught people about God while on earth.
Posted by 1970vu 3 years ago
1970vu
You are saying that the first father of the line of David was Adam. In the holy Gospel according to Matthew, the family tree of Christ does not mention Adam. Adam died. The book of Genesis says so.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Lastly you claim to follow your Pastor. I follow the God of the bible.
Gal_1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Gal_1:2, And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
Gal_1:3, Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal_1:4, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal_1:5, To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
POP QUIZ! Who is the first father of the line of David? Duh! Adam.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
For the record I claim what is actually in the bible only. Get your facts straight.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Because you lied about Adam. You said he did nothing but sin and die. He is the Alpha of the bible. There is only one God. Your argument is falling apart! No depth no answers just babbling on and on. Now you babble that Christ was a Theologian? Duh??????????
Posted by OtakuJordan 3 years ago
OtakuJordan
A. We all claim that we are speaking about facts, so that claim has no weight.
B. I said nothing about my personal feelings.
C. Why exactly do you believe my pastor is lying and not simply of a different theological persuasion?

You amuse me so much. We'll have to do this again when this debate is over.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
I am speaking about bible facts. Not your personal feelings or what you have read. Luke 3:38 is a fact. Adam was formed you pastor lied by telling you He was created. I say just scribes in the bible who killed Christ and the truth. Babies with no teeth can not chew meat. It will choke the infant. My message has depth. Is why you babble that you can not understand bible facts. It your turn to debate try babbling there. You said Christ created Adam. Or think Eden was created for man. Eden the Garden of God? Duh?
Posted by OtakuJordan 3 years ago
OtakuJordan
Actually, the reason that no one understands what you are saying is because your English is some of the worst on this site and the manner in which you "debate" is basically just a presentation of bare assertions and hilariously lame and undeserved insults.

That being said, I have a very good understanding of the Adam-God doctrine, having read several essays and a book on the topic. I would not be surprised if I knew more about it than you do. In fact, judging by the laughable way in which you present it, I am quite confident that I do.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Cygnus 3 years ago
Cygnus
OtakuJordantelisw37Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con states that he wanted to have this debate partly to improve his writing skills. I look forward to his next debate because his skills have not improved in this one. As Pro points out, the Bible clearly indicates that Adam sinned, whereas Jesus was sinless. This has been pointed out to him consistently throughout his debates, but he insists that his view of Adam and Christ are correct while the rest of Christendom are wrong. Con used only select verses from the Bible but no extra-biblical sources and his conduct seems to have gone down hill since his last debate. Sweeping victory for Pro. Again