The Instigator
brandonpj
Con (against)
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The Contender
LatentDebater
Pro (for)
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Affirmative Action

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,131 times Debate No: 29408
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
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brandonpj

Con

First off, I think there should be a common definition on what Affirmative Action is:

"A set of procedures designed to eliminate unlawful discrimination between applicants, remedy the results of such prior discrimination, and prevent such discrimination in the future."
<http://www.law.cornell.edu...;

Secondly, I would like to address the issues of Affirmative Action (AA).

1. AA leads to reverse discrimination, and instead of erasing discrimination among Minorities, creates discrimination among Majorities.
2. AA is tough to remove, once passed. If people were to eventually change their ideals in a state that supports AA, it would be difficult to remove.
3. It tells Minorities that the only way to succeed is by using benefits such as AA, when true success comes from hard work and patience.
4. Students admitted into a school by AA are often unprepared for the school which they have been admitted to.

Consider the following:
A Minority and a Majority both take an exam to be admitted into a college.
-The Minority scores higher than the Majority. Obviously, the Minority will be the one admitted.
-The Minority and the Majority both score the exact same. Most likely, the Minority will be the one admitted.
-The Majority scores higher than the Minority. Sadly, there is still a pretty good chance for the Minority to be the one admitted.

This is my first debate, so bring it on!!
LatentDebater

Pro

"Affirmative action is intended to promote the opportunities of defined groups within a society. It is often instituted in government and educational settings to ensure that minority groups within a society are included in all programs. The stated justification for affirmative action by its proponents is that it helps to compensate for past discrimination, persecution or exploitation by the ruling class of a culture, and to address existing discrimination. The implementation of affirmative action, especially in the United States, is considered by its proponents to be justified by disparate impact."

http://tinyurl.com...

1. AA leads to reverse discrimination, and instead of erasing discrimination among Minorities, creates discrimination among Majorities.

The only true part of your statement I left uncut. The rest had zero evidence in support for it. And yes it has to create this discrimination in order to help to hugely discriminated minorities.

2. AA is tough to remove, once passed. If people were to eventually change their ideals in a state that supports AA, it would be difficult to remove.

The first sentence is not relevant as to why AA is wrong in first place just as much as the law "Do not murder" is extremely difficult to remove. The second is false and has zero evidence in support of it.

3. It tells Minorities that the only way to succeed is by using benefits such as AA, when true success comes from hard work and patience.

First part completely false and unjustified/unsupported and the second part is quite true but irrelevant to this debate.

4. Students admitted into a school by AA are often unprepared for the school which they have been admitted to.

100% false and unjustified/unsupported.

Okay so what are the pros of Affirmative action? http://www.balancedpolitics.org...

1. Diversity is desirable and won't always occur if left to chance.

While many say that it leads to reverse discrimination what is actually leads to is the reversal of discrimination by adding legal pressure to corporations and institutes to accept the discriminated against in order to let the best of every walk of life get in and succeed, after all variation is an important reason of why the humans dominate the Earth. We need different kinds of people succeeding otherwise we'll end up with many of the same type of people being rich and no variety to compete with.

2. Students starting at a disadvantage need a boost.

I'd like to see your counter to this as I feel that it is self explanatory.

3. Affirmative action draws people to areas of study and work they may never consider otherwise.

If every single person of your ethnicity is told they can't dance or sing or whatever but you genetically are predisposed to be the next Christina Aguilera then if a legal block to boost people of your ethnicity up on the employability scale was present you perhaps could better show the world your talents. Everyone wins.

4. Some stereotypes may never be broken without affirmative action.

I would like my opponent to counter this by showing how if an entire culture and group of employers are disgusted by a particular ethnicity and don't want to hire these people exist then how this would be overcome without affirmative action being present.

5. Affirmative action is needed to compensate minorities for centuries of slavery or oppression.

This is definitely true and I do not think it can be countered.
Debate Round No. 1
brandonpj

Con

brandonpj forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Deadlykris 3 years ago
Deadlykris
AA is state-enforced racism. It was an acceptable counter to traditional racism, but it bears no relevance in the modern world.
Posted by 16kadams 3 years ago
16kadams
I'm against AA even though I benefit from it.
Posted by Grape 3 years ago
Grape
My thoughts on this are very divided (I'm not sure if my profile says against or no opinion). In principle, I see no problem with extending educational benefits preferentially to people who are otherwise disadvantaged. I have the following two concerns:

1. Affirmative action appears to work much more strongly against Asian applicants than against white applicants. When California ended affirmative action in its public schools, this effect came out pretty strongly: the number of Asian students at Berkeley, UCLA, and the UC schools in general spiked up, while the number of white students actually went down. Obviously California is demographically different than most of the country, but a study at Princeton showed a similar effect. Ending affirmative action would double the number of Asian students while increasing the admission rate for white students by about 1%. So I don't see current practices as doing more than shifting benefits from one minority group to another.

2. Affirmative action places minority students in an academic environment where they might be out of their depth. Future success in engineering, medicine, and other lucrative fields is based strongly on success relative to one's peers (and thus earning a good GPA). Affirmative action beneficiaries are interested in STEM fields to a greater degree than white students, but they transfer out at a much higher rate. It seems that in the current system of high competition, which rewards students who have stronger prior backgrounds, makes it generally disadvantageous to attend a school where you will be a below average student. Affirmative action virtually assures that all but the most talented minority students will be below average relative to their peers. And this is without even going into the effects that on has on one's self confidence. I can't help but think that a kid with a 2000 SAT score is better of in the top 10% at Rutgers than the bottom 10% at Princeton.
Posted by LeafRod 3 years ago
LeafRod
Danielle, most people I've seen who are against affirmative action have these twisted and completely ignorant perceptions of it, so I'm surprised that you may not and yet are still against it
Posted by Danielle 3 years ago
Danielle
I might take this. To clarify, I am against AA. However, the reality of AA vs. the mythological application of its use is kind of frustrating. Scenarios described by the instigator where a white person who scored higher on an entrance exam not being admitted is very, very unlikely and seems like fear mongering.
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