The Instigator
Merrit
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Nyx999
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Affirmative Action

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 769 times Debate No: 36361
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Merrit

Con

I will be arguing against affirmative action. Con will argue in favor of affirmative action.

Rules:
R1 accept.
No new arguments in R4, only rebuttals.
All laws pertaining to affirmative action will be those of the US.
No semantics.

I wish my opponent luck in advance.
Nyx999

Pro

This topic I am kind of on the fence about, but I will try to argue for affirmative action, because I'm getting bored, and I am just not finding any other good debates in the challenge area. So I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Merrit

Con

Unfortunately my work schedule will not permit me to complete this round. I apologize for the inconvenience, and I am deeply sorry.

I should be able to complete next round. Con may wait for me to post my arguments, or post their arguments this round if they wish to do so.
Nyx999

Pro

Nyx999 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Merrit

Con

I am running low on time, but I will do my best.

Affirmative action is unequal.

After the Civil Rights Movement, minorities gained equal rights. However, Affirmative Action makes it so that it is unequal. Now, minorities have an edge in college entrances, and from a job perspective.
College entrances, jobs, promotions, and so forth should be based on qualification, and experience.

Affirmative action is discrimination.

Affirmative action focuses on what ethnicity, gender, or what country they come from. AA is making race and gender an issue. How isn't this discrimination. AA discriminates against not only whites, but Asians as well. Asians are minorities. Only 4.8% of the US population are Asian Americans. Not only are they minorities, but Asians have been mistreated in the past. For example, during World War II, we rounded up Japanese, took their belongings, and put them in concentration camps. [1] Another example is with the Chinese. In the mid-1800s, we discriminated against the Chinese. [2] So why doesn't Affirmative Action help Asian Americans? This is because of the stereotype that Asians are super smart, so they should not get these benefits.

Affirmative Action promotes laziness.

Affirmative action makes it so minorities don't have to work as hard to get into good universities. Instead of that A- average, they only need a B average (just an example). Meanwhile, the Asian Americans and whites have to work harder, and pay more college tuition. Without affirmative action, both sides will have to work hard, and all will be equal.

Unfortunately, I have run out of time.



Sources:
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org...

[2]: http://history.state.gov...
Nyx999

Pro

First of all, I'd like to say I'm sorry, but wikipedia is not a reputable source. (The other one seems okay though.)

I agree, affirmative action IS discrimination, but everything isn't black and white. Things often are more complicated. Like in this situation. Affirmative action is necessary. Bigotry and racism hasn't been completely eradicated in the united states, and since it is incredibly hard to change people's mindsets, opinions that they hold in the deepest recesses of their hearts, unfortunately we need to resort to discrimination ourselves, just to even out the balance of the world. It is our only option. We cannot force people to see the world a different way, therefore this is the only way we can try to give minorities as much a chance as everybody else. If you could suggest a way we can give them a leg up without being hypocritical, I would be glad to hear it, but unfortunately this matter cannot just be left alone. The constitution promises equality for all, and if the only way we can achieve equality is through discrimination, then that is our only course of action. I'm not arguing that affirmative action isn't discrimination, it is, but it is necessary discrimination. It is the only weapon we have against stereotypes. And I know, affirmative action does discriminate against asian americans, the thing about asian americans is that they have a stereotype working in their favour, portraying them as mathematical geniuses, when they are really only people. When have you heard a racist joke about an african american or a hispanic being smart? Never. I could name at least 10 racist jokes that portray asian americans as being smart. (My dad is a bit fond of racist jokes, even though he doesn't believe they are true.)

I'm fully aware that asians have been mistreated in the past, but that isn't what this debate is about. This debate is about the horrific mindset of most Americans that cripples us, and leaves us choking on our own ignorance. This debate is about how we can change that, even if it is through unsavory means. We aren't basing affirmative action solely on race or gender. We base affirmative action on how the public views certain races or genders. If everybody thought that white males were complete idiots and hispanic females were all geniuses it would be a different matter, but judging by the number and class of racist jokes I hear every day, that isn't the case.

I don't see how affirmative action promotes laziness. Minorities have to work just as hard, maybe even harder, to work against the racism of past teachers or peers. There have been plenty of incidents of people in power, bosses, teachers, principals, who discriminate against blacks or hispanics, and a lot of time, this affects the victims work, either directly or indirectly. For example there have been cases of racist teachers, not fully reading a student's homework or test, and grading them on what they think the student would normally get. Of course this is a giant problem in of itself, but it becomes a bigger problem when you realize that the grade students get may be influenced by the color of their skin. There are countless situations like this, not only documented ones but undocumented ones. And these situations usually go by undocumented because students have no solid proof that their teacher is grading them on anything but their performance. It usually takes students cheating off one another, (turning in the same paper) and getting different grades, for students to realize a teacher is discriminating against them. And even then, students won't go telling anybody because telling your parents that you cheated on a test or homework isn't the best conversation you can have with them. They often don't realize the importance of exposing their teacher's ignorance, and therefore, it goes unnoticed. There have been a couple of incidents like that at a school I know. (It got really messy.)
Racism could affect students indirectly through erosion of self-worth and confidence, or maybe the students would not want to attend a class where they are harassed by a teacher, and they may be scared to tell parents or a person of authority what they are going through in a class, so they might skip class. Or maybe, the child (impressionable as they are) might think that the teacher is right, (contributing to erosion of self-worth and confidence) and therefore won't see that the teacher is doing something wrong and won't think they need to tell anybody that anything is wrong. (because they won't know that something's wrong.) Skipping classes does a number on a report card, the children would be missing important information and that of course would affect testes and inevitably, entrance into college. Oh, I have thought of another situation. Let's say the child thinks that the teacher is right, and is therefore so depressed and full of self-loathing (because elementary school children spend 6 hours with a teacher, what a teacher thinks of said child is bound to have an effect on him/her.) that she/he might not focus on school at all. Depression does get in the way of those kinds of things.

In conclusion, minorities need a leg up, they need an advantage to combat the racism they faced as children. They may be just as smart or smarter than the white and asian children they are competing, but years of racism do have an effect on people, and they might need a little help to reach their full potential. Remember, even though it IS discrimination, we're only balancing out the playing field. It's necessary.

http://www.blackmediascoop.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Merrit

Con

Unfortunately, I am going to have to concede this round as well. I apologize to Pro, as I am busy, and unable to finish a clear, concise argument.

Vote Pro.
Nyx999

Pro

I was hoping for a more lively debate, but at least we got one round in right? This is a subject I am very passionate about, and maybe we could rematch sometime? It's so hard to find good debates now. Most of them are all about the existence of god, (or lack thereof), or troll debates. Challenge me again anytime! (I won't challenge you because you are obviously very busy, and only you can choose the time best suited to your schedule)
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Nyx999 3 years ago
Nyx999
It's fine I forfeited to let you catch up.
Posted by Bullish 3 years ago
Bullish
Aww it got accepted right after I posted..

This is a debate on AA I'm having with what seems like a hit-and-run debater. http://www.debate.org... I kind of wanted to have the debate with someone active.
Posted by Bullish 3 years ago
Bullish
Oh.. If it's Affirmative Action in general, does that mean I can say things like "That's bad Affirmative Action, but we can have good Affirmative Action", like "Guns can be used for bad, but also good"?
Posted by Merrit 3 years ago
Merrit
It's not a specific policy, it's affirmative action in general.
Posted by Merrit 3 years ago
Merrit
I will specify in the debate. Let me update it real quick.
Posted by LevelWithMe 3 years ago
LevelWithMe
I would appreciate it if you would define your parameters a bit more.

Is this affirmative action as it has been implemented everywhere around the world, or just the US?

Is this every affirmative action policy, or some specific policy that is often the subject of debate?

Is the argument that it is fair or unfair, or are you arguing against the implementation of affirmative action policies on the basis that it is unfair? The later, allowing your opponent to support affirmative action on a different basis, perhaps for a reason that they believe outweighs the fairness factor?
No votes have been placed for this debate.