The Instigator
LaxOnIce421
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Dilara
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Affirmative action is necessary for equal oppurtunity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Dilara
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 691 times Debate No: 91759
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

LaxOnIce421

Pro

A white person's opportunity compared to a black person's oppurtunity. We are all well aware that there are many more ghettos and hoods with blacks than whites, that means that the schooling in black communities will be more often worse than schooling in white communities. Now, with that in mind, who is more qualified to get into Harvard or Yale, your average Black person who graduated with a 3.8 GPA, or your average white person who graduated with a 4.0 GPA. The answer is that the Black person most likely had to work harder through a less funded school system to earn a 3.8, than the white person who always was in the great school district. That means not only that the black person is more qualified, but also that when he gets to the specified university that he will be a harder worker. My main point is that the white person has white privilege and has never had to deal with not having that privilege. If you do not understand what white privilege is I will be happy to explain it to you. Affirmative action is necessary to achieve equal equality.
Dilara

Con

Not all whites have good schooling and not all blacks have poor schooling. What happens when a school has to choose between a white person who grew up in a white trash ghetto and a middle or upper class black person, both of whom have the same grades? Are they going to choose the black person even though they are advantaged over the white person? In that case the school would be creating an even bigger disparity between the middle or upper class black person and the poor white person, not leveling the playing field.
Inner city poor schools most of which are black are usually easy to excel in. Better schools are harder to excel in. If you take someone of any race who attended an inner city ghetto school and got a 3.8 gpa and you take a person who attended a good school in an upper class area and also got a 3.8 gpa, chances are the person from the good school had to work harder to achieve that gpa--good schools make you work hard. It is harder to get good grades in good schools than it is to get good grades in bad schools.
Some colleges take in people with low gpas who aren't ready to attend them, because those people are female, nonwhite or nonAsian. The results in these colleges is that whites and Asians do better than other groups--because the whites and Asians are less likely to have gotten in on affirmative action and therefor are more likely to have been ready for those schools. The drop out rate among black people in colleges that use affirmative action is very high. The black people who drop out in those affirmative action schools often do so because they were not ready in the first place. In essence-- whites and Asians do better in colleges than other groups because it is harder for whites and Asians to get in. Because it is hard for whites and Asians to get in, the whites and Asians who do get in will be highly qualified and ready for those colleges. Members of other racial groups who got in on affirmative action are less qualified and therefor are more likely to do poorly or drop out.
There are advantages that come with being white. But not all white people will benefit form these advantages. There are also disadvantages that come with being white. Even if a white person does benefit fro the advantages that come with being white those white-advantages might be overridden by disadvantages he faced relating to health, income ect . Who do you think is more privileged? The rich black person or the poor white person? The advantages that come with being white can easily be outweighed and overridden by disadvantages relating to poor health, low income, abuse ect When someone is applying for college, the college should not assume that because they are white that they benefited from the advantages that come with being white or that they did not face other disadvantages. Colleges should also not assume that all blacks who apply had hard lives, because some black people have privileged lives--they are wealthy, middle class, healthy, able bodied ect.
Debate Round No. 1
LaxOnIce421

Pro

LaxOnIce421 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

Affirmative action is problematic. It is flat out discrimination against white and Asian men. Denying someone a job or spot because they are white, Asian or male, and giving that spot to another person who didn't work as hard as them and doesn't deserve it as much, because they are black, female ect, is mean and racist/sexist. People should be judged based on their work ethic and achievements, not things that they can't help like race, sex ect. Universities, companies, ect need the best people possible. Affirmative action causes schools, companies ect to bring in people who are not qualified and end up doing poorly or drooping out. If you were going to have surgery would you want your doctor to be someone who was pretty good but got in on affirmative action and was not the very best, or would you want the person who was excellent and got in because of their skills? Who do you want teaching your kids? The person who got the job because they were qualified or the under qualified person who got the job because of their sex?
Another thing I should point out is that affirmative action, in no way "levels the playing field." The group most likely to benefit form affirmative action is MIDDLE CLASS white women. Should a middle class woman who went to good schools and had access to lots of educational resources be given the advantage over the poor male who went to lousy schools and had less resources? In that scenario, giving the woman the advantage over the man would create a bigger disparity and make the playing field even more uneven. Just because someone is female, black, hispanic ect does not mean that they had a hard life and need extra help. Just because someone is male, white or Asian does not mean that they had privileged life. In some cases affirmative action will advantage a privileged woman/minority over a poor under privileged male/white/Asian--is that fair?
Affirmative action should be banned in public institutions.
Debate Round No. 2
LaxOnIce421

Pro

LaxOnIce421 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

Pro started the debate but once I proved him wrong he ignored it. It is not surprising that someone who speaks of white male privilege and makes blanket statements about racial groups would back down from an opposing argument.
Debate Round No. 3
LaxOnIce421

Pro

LaxOnIce421 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

Tgis study of top law schools found that 50% of African Americans at these schools, many of whom had gotten in affirmative action, were at the bottom 10% of their class. It also found that the drop out rate of blacks in these law schools was almost 20%. http://www2.law.ucla.edu...

University of San Diego law professor and U.S. Civil Rights Commissioner Gail Heriot explained in a special report that there is a similar dropout rate among students who got in because of affirmative action and white students admitted as legacies with entering credentials similar to those of students admitted because of a race preference.
Heriot describes one study conducted by UCLA law professor Richard Sander and UCLA statistician Roger Bolus, which indicated:

Professor Heriot describes one study by UCLA law professor Richard Sander and UCLA statistician Roger Bolus, that students with credentials more than one standard deviation below their science peers at college are "half as likely to end up with science bachelor degrees, compared with similar students attending schools where their credentials are much closer to, or above, the mean credentials of their peers."
What will happen if affirmative action is banned in public colleges? Lets look at California. In 1996 affirmative action was made illegal. Before this amendment affirmative action induced grades were very common. Now that affirmative action is banned, California minority students have lower drop out rates and higher grades--because thees students actually earned their positions.

Simply put, college students who were admitted due to affirmative action are more likely to drop out and be at the bottoms of their classes than students who got in on their own merits. This should not surprise anyone. Students who get in on affirmative action often are not ready for the colleges they are attending--if they were they wouldn't have to have the admission bar lowered for them. When a student gets in to a college, not because f their achievements, but because of their race )or sex), it makes complete sense that this individual is more likely to be at the bottom of their class or fail out. Why do you want to put people in positions they are not ready for and will likely fail out of? Do you actually want to help minorities?
Debate Round No. 4
LaxOnIce421

Pro

LaxOnIce421 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

I provided facts about how affirmative action harms everyone. Pro fortified after they lost the first round. Pro fortified even though they had challenged me to the debate. Please read through the debate and consider the points I made. Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by GrimlyF 3 months ago
GrimlyF
Affirmative Action is, by its very existence, the opposite of equal opportunity.What white man, going for a job interview, has any chance of success when the interviewer has been told to hire a blackman regardless and of course vise-versa.
Posted by Dilara 6 months ago
Dilara
True
Posted by SegBeg 6 months ago
SegBeg
Affirmative action is a racist ideaology which indicates that a certain ethnic group (ie blacks or Latinos) are incapable of being successful without the help of ie whites. If you believe in affirmative action, you are no equality campaigner, you are a "nice" white supremacist.
Posted by Dilara 9 months ago
Dilara
Lax. Where was this guys white privilege?http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Posted by LaxOnIce421 9 months ago
LaxOnIce421
@Teodor_En do you really think that there is no such thing as white or male privilege? I'm going to assume that you are a white male who has never had to go through a single thing that involves privilege. I am also a white male so I can see how you feel, however By being born male, you can assume that you can walk through a parking garage without worrying you'll be raped and that a defense attorney will then blame it on what you were wearing, and If a traffic cop pulls you over or if the IRS audits my tax return, you can be sure you haven"t been singled out because of your race. You can walk through a store without thinking that you are being fallowed because of your race. White and male privilege does exist. Unless your ignorance permits you not to read "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack." by Peggy McIntosh, read it
Posted by Teodor_En 9 months ago
Teodor_En
Con had it there. Pro generalises all the time. What's with all this privilege stuff, it's not true. People pick up all the propaganda now. There's a reason the average is more for whites. More blacks decide to be "thugs" and "gangsters", while more white people decide to have better grades. There are black people who have become scientists e.g. Neil Degrasse Tyson, and there are white people who decide to be "thugs" as well. But there's a reason why the average is higher for white people. Do asian people have "asian privilege" because on average they have a higher GPA?
(Source http://www.nationsreportcard.gov...)
There is no such thing as white OR male privilege. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of results.
Posted by Dilara 9 months ago
Dilara
Yeah, pro has to understand that not all black people have hard lives and not all white people have easy lives. Its not black and white, there are shades of grey. You can't just look at someone and assume they have privilege--you must know their life story.
Posted by David_Debates 9 months ago
David_Debates
Good argument, Con. Interested to see Pro's response without generalizing black and white people.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 8 months ago
dsjpk5
LaxOnIce421DilaraTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con.