The Instigator
blond_guy
Con (against)
Losing
22 Points
The Contender
Kleptin
Pro (for)
Winning
62 Points

Affirmative action.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,397 times Debate No: 2870
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (8)
Votes (19)

 

blond_guy

Con

Preferential treatment to some because of their race and gender is just plain racist or sexist. Now, I understand some people have it hard. For example, some black kids work their butts off in bad circumstances and if a white kid with a millionaire dad gets the same grades as the black student, then I believe that the black student deserves preferential treatment when applying for college. However, Affirmative action works both ways. What about the white kids in bad neighborhoods? What about the black kids in great neighborhoods with rich families to provide for them? Racism against whites or Asians or such are not always fair, therefore there should be a different system for affirmative action. The government should just give preferential treatment to people under worse conditions. Whether it's the family income, or the condition of their neighborhood, the ability to perform in their highschool, etcetera. Race shouldn't be involved in this whatsoever. As for women, I don't think they are discriminated so much to deserve preferential treatment. They did receive voting rights after African-Americans, but who really was treated the worst? The Women's movement in America has ended long ago, you hear way more black people screaming racism than women screaming sexism, and that's why Al Sharpton still has a job.

This is a 1 round debate, make all the points you want to make.
Kleptin

Pro

I fail to understand your argument.

I agree with you that race should not be a part of anything, I find it to be an irrelevant and inaccurate way to determine whether affirmative action should apply.

I believe we must first ask ourselves, "Why should affirmative action be implemented if this is not an issue about race?"

Affirmative action is supposed to balance the odds between a majority and a minority with equal skill but unequal opportunity due to something irrelevant. The classic example of a poor black family who started out at the bottom of the ladder due to racism and oppression applies.

Now, let's go back to your argument and take race out of the picture. You now have the poor against the rich, and your proposal has a seemingly robin-hood-esque feel to it.

However, this is NOT a black and white issue. There is a false dichotomy in declaring that affirmative action protects the poor from the rich. If affirmative action is implemented, you will be benefiting the poor at the expense of the MIDDLE CLASS while the upper class remains unharmed.

Let me use the example of college acceptance.

A middle class student of East Asian descent whose parents immigrated here with absolutely nothing applies to a prestigious university.

A lower class student of African descent, whose family has been marred by oppression and racism applies to the same university.

An upper class student of European descent has his father donate a wing to the prestigious university and applies there.

Assuming all three went to the same high school and had the same grades, the only one who would be rejected would be the Asian student.

Why? Because the rich applicant will NEVER be turned down, EVER. There will never be a situation in which a person hires or accepts a lower class person for an upper class person because there are always people in between. So whoever it is, an employer or college acceptance official, will always select the rich kid and the poor kid, the middle class kid will have to fight extra hard.

So you see, affirmative action is good in theory, but it cripples the middle class. Implementing affirmative action would just blur the line between lower class and middle class. This is unfair and is also why I am against affirmative action as it is now, or as you propose.
Debate Round No. 1
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by brittwaller 8 years ago
brittwaller
I was able to flip this one;)
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Well, facts can be derived mistakenly from correct statistical data.

For example, the statistical data can be a statewide examination showing higher scores among whites than blacks.

Some people can say that whites are smarter. Some people can say that whites grow up in better environments conducive to learning. It's hard to make a solid general statement in that sense.
Posted by aceofelves 9 years ago
aceofelves
Affirmative action makes me sick. Employing someone just to fill a racial/gender quota is terrible. whoever is most qualified should get the job, regardless of color or sex.

white people tend to be smarter than blacks. this is not a racist statement it is a fact. facts are not racist.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
I accepted this debate because I did disagree with you, even though I do not support the position. Or you can say that I am for affirmative action, but in a way that is different from both the system we have now and the system you propose. Either way, I am still a valid opponent.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
Thank you conspicuous conservative! Well said.

<<I really find it hard to believe that all men are created equal in this country when I have more opportunities then you simply because I have a darker tint to my skin>>

I don't want to burst your bubble, but affirmative action is actually helping me individually, since I'm 50% Hispanic. But still I think it's wrong.

Kleptin, to accept this debate is to be for affirmative action, don't try to get away from that. I proposed a change for people to see affirmative action is not the best way to help the people with less oppurtunities just because of how they were born.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Just FYI, "Pro" and "Con" positions aren't really what they are in this debate. My opponent suggested a change in affirmative action policy and I am debating against that change.

Just to avoid confusion.
Posted by vinavinx 9 years ago
vinavinx
No what I think is funny is the fact blacks use racial slurs against eachother. And then when whites say it they turn and scream racist.
Posted by Conspicuous_Conservative 9 years ago
Conspicuous_Conservative
I really hope you win. It is going to be hard seeing you have the bush pick and the stigma people have with blond caucasians. I really find it hard to believe that all men are created equal in this country when I have more opportunities then you simply because I have a darker tint to my skin (which is simply more protein, for all you science buffs). I am multi racial, with German and Panamanian being the majorities. The level of racism that exists troubles me and it looks like America has taken a step away from MLK's dream
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Vote Placed by Desiree 7 years ago
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