The Instigator
lovepiink9230
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points

Against Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2012 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,546 times Debate No: 22310
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

lovepiink9230

Con

If you had to make a choice, would you choose life or death? Do you have the capacity, Heart, Ability, or strength, to murder an innocent and defenseless child? In 2008 alone about 1.21 million women choose death, that means approximately 3,315 women had abortions a day says Guttmacher. How could a human being kill a baby that breathes through you?
Abortion is the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy, any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, especially during the first six months. An abortion is not to be confused with a miscarriage. A miscarriage is the spontaneous expulsion of a fetus from the womb. So let us be very clear abortions are done on purpose and 93 percent of them are done because the child that is to be born is considered to be an inconvenience or just plain unwanted. When someone experiences a miscarriage their body is saying that you are not healthy enough to carry a baby at the moment in your life.
Women who wish to have abortions can choose from two types. The first and oldest is a surgical abortion. What poison would you choose under a surgical abortion? There are three types. The first type includes the invasion of the uterus and cervix. Other abortions kill the baby by drugs, and induce labor so the mother gives birth to a dead baby also known as a still birth. The last surgical abortion invades the uterus by abdominal surgery causing her to be put under.
The other type of abortion is recently new and considered to be virtually painless. I say that because it is done with a pill. The pill comes in two parts to ensure that the fetus has really been extracted. The first pill is called mifepristone; it blocks a hormone called progesterone from going to the rest of the body. The second pill called misoprostol is issued to a woman about 48 hours after mifepristone if the baby has not been removed already. Causing the uterine lining to contract (cramp), this process is expelling the contents left in the body.
Who has the right except for God to say that a fetus is not a baby? On the contrary to what most people think according to lifesite a baby's brain is fully developed and all vessels of the heart are established at just twelve (12) weeks. The baby has eye lids, hair, can suck its thumb, do somersaults, jump, frown, swallow, and moves its tongue. The baby also blinks, grasps things, moves its mouth, has eyebrows, eyelashes, kicks, and can taste what the mother is eating. Would you kill your little brother or sister if your mother told you to choose?
With abortions you have three choices. The first is suction aspiration; with this the embryotic sack is punctured with a hollow tube with a knife-edged tip. This tube is inserted in to the uterus and then connected to a vacuum that is about 29 times the amount of a normal vacuum. The vacuum tears the baby and the placenta into small pieces which are them sucked through the tube and into a bottle and thrown away. If this process has not been fully complete "menstrual extraction" is needed which is full dilation of the cervix and then the second process happens. Dilation and curettage (D&C) the same steps are taken just as in suction and aspiration they add a hook in the shape of a knife that is used to cut the baby into pieces. After the innocent baby is cut up it is then scraped out and thrown away. The last process would be the pill which was described earlier which has its own two part process. Which one will you choose?

<http://www.whyprolife.com...;.
<http://www.lifesite.net...;.
<http://www.womenhealthzone.com...;.
16kadams

Pro

The majority of my opponents argument is irrelevant, her arguments on the way abortions are done and things such as that are irrelevant. Her relevant argument goes like this:

P1: A fetus is a human
P2: Abortion is removal of the fetus
C: Abortion is murder

The only thing that needs debunking is P1, as P2 is correct, and C could use some semantics.

=refuting her argument=

P1: A fetus is a human

This argument is essentially false as a fetus is totally reliant on its host, and therefore is not reliant on itself. [1]

"Historically, a fetus has never (or very rarely) been considered a human being, at least not before "quickening", an old-fashioned term indicating noticeable movement of the fetus. The Catholic Church even allowed abortion until quickening, up until 1869" [1]

"Fetuses are uniquely different from born human beings in major ways, which casts doubt on the claim that they can be classified as human beings. The most fundamental difference is that a fetus is totally dependent on a woman's body to survive." [1]

As P1 is dead, the whole argument is debunked.

P2: Abortion removes the fetus

I agree, but this does not matter as a fetus is not a human being.

C: Abortion is murder

First how can it be murder if a fetus is not a human being? Second, murder is not the correct word. Murder is defined as killing a person ILLEGALLY. [2] As abortion is legal it is not murder.

=My argument=

C1: Rights

Abortion has been fundamental right since the ruling of Roe v. Wade. [3] The 9th amendment protects the right to privacy, and abortion is considered a private issue. The 9th amendment grants people the right to legal abortions. [4]

C2: a fetus is not a human

I have already covered this.

C3: Allowing abortion reduces crime

""The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime" is a controversial paper by John J. Donohue III of Yale University and Steven Levitt of University of Chicago that argues that the legalization of abortion in the 1970s contributed significantly to reductions in crime rates experienced in the 1990s." [5]

"The effect of legalized abortion on crime (sometimes referred to as the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis) is the theory that legal abortion reduces crime. Proponents of the theory generally argue that since unwanted children are more likely to become criminals and that an inverse correlation is observed between the availability of abortion and subsequent crime." [6]

Conclusion:

I have proven the benefits of abortion through reduced crime rates, and also proven a fetus is not a human being, debunking her whole argument. Her arguments about god and types of abortion are irrelevant, we are not a theocratic goverment, and no matter the type of abortion the same things are accomplished. And abortion is a fundamental right according to the constitution and the courts. For these reasons I urge a PRO vote.




[1] http://www.abortionaccess.info...
[2] http://dictionary.cambridge.org...
[3] http://abortion.procon.org...
[4] http://law2.umkc.edu...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
lovepiink9230

Con

lovepiink9230 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
lovepiink9230

Con

To have an abortion at any time over the four month period should be illegal. The process of aborting a baby at this time would be harmful not only to the baby but as well as the mother. This alone has two parts that are very dangerous, and the sad part is that some of these are legal. The first one is called dilation and evacuation which can only happen after eighteen weeks of pregnancy. In this time a pair of forceps is inserted into the womb of a women and the unborn child is clamped on to as the abortionist twist and pulls until each limb of baby is torn off and removed. The spline and the skull have to be crushed to be removed properly. The second type of abortion that is able to happen at this time is called salt poisoning. This is when a long needle full of salt solution is injected into the baby's sac. After this the baby is poisoned the salt becomes corrosive and begins to burn off the layer of skin. And within 24 hours she should give birth to a dead baby or a dying baby. If the baby is born alive it is left in the corner to die and then is thrown away.
Another abortion method is Prostaglandin chemical it was developed by Upjohn Pharmaceutical Co. This chemical drug causes the uterus to contract pushing out the growing baby which frequently killed by it. Some babies have even been decapitated while others have been left alive, and just as before they are left to the side to die. Another abortion that would be given is called hysterotomy or caesarean section these are used in the last three months and are done by surgery through the abdomen wall kind of like the way you would deliver a baby with a caesarean. The difference is that the baby is cut from the umbilical cord causing the baby to suffocate and if the baby is still alive it is set aside to die of neglect.
The last abortion that is explained by lifesite it is a partial-birth abortion. This is a five step process. The first step that the abortionist takes is to grab the baby's legs with forceps. Second, the baby's legs are pulled into the birth canal. Next the abortionist delivers the entire body except for the head. At that point he proceeds to jam scissors into the baby's skull to enlarge it. The scissors are then removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The brain is sucked out causing the skull to collapse causing the abortionist to be removed the baby dead. (Labeled)
African American women account for thirty percent (30%) of abortions in this country compare to Caucasian women who carry a high number of thirty-six percent (36%). Hispanic women account for twenty-five percent (25%) and the other nine percent (9%) are unknown ethnicities according to Guttmacher. Even with all the different ethnic backgrounds we would still be seen as family oriented people but that might just be because of the way I was raised. So I cannot understand how you can get rid of your own family, flesh and blood. No matter how bad the timing may be. (6)
16kadams

Pro

extend arguments.

My opponents arguments are the same how an abortion is done. My opponent claims 4 weeks. May I ask, why this number? As she has not justified this argument I urge a pro vote.

The only argument she has brought forth that is relevant this round (new arguments last round, I ask for conduct) is the partial abortion and the flesh and blood statement.

---> Partial abortion

One must first note the decreases in abortion rates. This shows the practice of abortion, legal or not, may become rare anyway. [1]



http://www.guttmacher.org...

This means if we keep the trend abortion will me like it was ilelgal (rare) anyway.

Furthermore for this argument to work she has to prove a fetus is a human, she hasn't, therefore it should be discarded.

The final refutation will be pain. a late term abortion is at 16 weeks some say. [2] As my opponent provides no defenitons we will use this number. Well a fetus is not a human (in this debate, not in my real opinion) and a fetus cannot feel pain until after 24 weeks. [3] As this is true there is no reason to think late term abortion is bad.

---> Flesh and blood

A fetus is not a human, so it does not count.

"A big part of what makes us human beings is our ability to participate in society, or at least be recognized as a member of society. Fetuses are excluded both by necessity and custom. There can be no meaningful social participation for someone cocooned inside another's body. Fetuses do not even have a social identity, since names are not officially bestowed until after birth. In fact, a birth certificate marks the first legal recognition of a person's existence. And fetuses are generally not given ritualized burials when miscarried or aborted. It is quite telling that the death of a newborn infant is much more of a crushing blow to parents than an early miscarriage. People simply place a higher social value on infants than fetuses, and this convention is ingrained in our culture and history. " [4]

Vote CON



[1] http://www.abort73.com...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://www.foxnews.com...
[4] http://www.abortionaccess.info...
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I'll be pro choice on this one.
Posted by Zaradi 5 years ago
Zaradi
Assuming the side error was just a little confusion and miscommunication, did she actually have an argument? The vast majority of what she was typing was describing different ways you could get an abortion.
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
so your not against abortion. Either change your side, or change your argument.
Posted by AlwaysMoreThanYou 5 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
I would just like to point out the double negative...
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
lovepiink923016kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments were all emotional, and lacked structure. Throw in the forfeit in there, and pro gets the win.
Vote Placed by Sans_the_Ander 5 years ago
Sans_the_Ander
lovepiink923016kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con mostly just talked about ways an abortion is done..... Any arguments Con did bring up Pro effectively refuted. Con didn't do much of anything to refute Pro's arguments. Plus Con did bring up a new argument in the last round PLUS FF'd a round so conduct goes to Pro