The Instigator
RationalMadman
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Hacnet
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Agnostic theism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/9/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,146 times Debate No: 28015
Debate Rounds (5)
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RationalMadman

Pro

For a lot of my life I thought I was an agnostic atheist. Only today(yes literally) did I sit and think deeply and randomly (as a rational madman does) have the epiphanic realisation that I am in fact, and always have been, an agnostic theist.

I shall define agnostic theism and look forward to my opponent's debate.

If you simply 'accept' in round one it's a seven point forfeit. Thanks in advance.

Agostic theism: The belief that although we know nothing of god(s), the best bet (if one were to gamble their life, or their famiy's) would be pro god(s) as opposed to the bleif in no superior entity/ies at all in relation to the creation of our universe.
Hacnet

Con

Ok, So if i understand this debate correctly, i am suppose to argue for Agnostic Athiesm, which for the reletive short time i have lived on this earth i believe i am.

To clarify, i do not hate religion, or any form of faith that many people in the world share. In fact i believe that the world in general is a better place because of people's beliefs. However i personally don't believe in a higher power for the simple resons of Suffering and faith.

To those of you who have read the Inheritence series By Christopher Paolini, you will recognize my arguments context, but i dont' believe he is the originator of these ideas, so i don't feel guilty for taking them, however they impacted my view on faith greatly, and as per this debate, i will use them, as they easily explain said faith.

Contention 1) There is suffering in the world that need not be there.

If for the sake of argument there was a god that we should put our faith in at the end of our life, who in fact gave us life, freedom, love, and all the other things told of through the bible, Homer, heiroglyphs, or some variation, taht gave life to the world at large, they gave man one too many gifts. They gave us suffering and pain. which is not a gift a person, or some such entity, should be rewarded with our blind faith, trust, and in some cases love. THe point of this debate, in my eyes is not for deciding whether agnotic faith or agnostic athiesm is better. and Athiesm is better for the simple reason that a god becomes the devil when they create suffering and pain when they so obviously have the power to stop it.

now i know this is a personal belief, but i don't see the point of putting my faith in something that WANTS me to suffer to demonstrate my devotion to it.
Debate Round No. 1
RationalMadman

Pro

Answer these questions:

1. From where do you draw morality?
2. If you don't have morality how can you feel good about yourself?
3. How do you justify this source of morality?
4. If you were to find out there was a god after death, would you not realise that you lose nothing by being theist and everything by being atheist?
Hacnet

Con

I shall just go down the list for the questions you asked and answer them to the best of my ability.

1. From where do you draw morality?

I draw my Morality, as the world calls it, from my own beliefs of Right or Wrong. One of my favorite Authors Garth Nix once said in one of his novels, that there is no right or wrong, all people can do is make the best decisions they can, then to live with whatever consequences may come. So i do what i think is right, then live with said decisions.


2. If you don't have morality how can you feel good about yourself?
Since i have my own morality, i feel good about myself, when either i fufill my own ideas of said morality, or when i find that through my efforts someone has been changed for the better.

3. How do you justify this source of morality?
I judge my morality based on the general consensis of law, or more accurately the Market place of ideas. The ideas of the many outweigh that of the few in my book, so if through my studies i see that the majority believe one thing for right or wrong, then i too must live with that belief as well, as the world will hold me accountable for that as well.


4. If you were to find out there was a god after death, would you not realise that you lose nothing by being theist and everything by being atheist?
As to this question, i have thought about it many many times throughout my life. I believe that if at the end of this life, and i find that what i believe is wrong, or that is that a "God", or gods if the aincients were right, than i believe they should respect my belief, and the fact that i maintained who i am throughout my life. If they maintain that they gave the Human race the freedom of choice than they should allow us the free choice and not punish us for not following them blindly, or that is being skeptical of what we cannot see. If at the end of this life, i am senteced to torment for eternity, i will go willingly, for i will not give up who i am for paradise, because i do not see the difference between that and blackmail, and that goes against who i am.
Debate Round No. 2
RationalMadman

Pro

RationalMadman forfeited this round.
Hacnet

Con

Hacnet forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
RationalMadman

Pro

Well I sure am lucky...

Anyway agnostic theism is better bet than agnostic atheism because agnostic atheism has zero explanation.
Hacnet

Con

Hacnet forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Hacnet

Con

Hacnet forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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