The Instigator
blond_guy
Pro (for)
Losing
42 Points
The Contender
DucoNihilum
Con (against)
Winning
48 Points

Agnostics are just atheists without balls.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,110 times Debate No: 3033
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (18)
Votes (25)

 

blond_guy

Pro

First of all, I did not make up my topic sentence, I took it from the book "I am America (and so can you) by Stephen Colbert, just in case you all start yelling "plagiarist". But this debate is about whether that is just a joke or not. I think it isn't just a joke and that agnostics are in fact atheists with no courage to admit it.
Believe it or not, studies show that atheists are the most discriminated minority at least in America. That's a perfect reason for someone who is really an atheist to say "I'm an agnostic". But it really doesn't make sense because if an agnostic is someone who just "doesn't know", then we are all agnostics, because none of us are 100% sure that god exists.

So... any takers?
DucoNihilum

Con

I disagree for the following reasons;

1- Your proposition assumes that

A. Agnostics have no testicles

B. Atheists have testicles

Both assumptions are incorrect, as there is strong evidencse that some agnostics are male, and some atheists are female.

2-

A. Just because there might be reason not to be an atheist does not mean every person who might be an atheist is one. There are reasons why you might not want to be a Muslim in the US today- but that doesn't make all non Christians Muslim.

B. Agnostics are more than simply people who just 'don't know', in fact, agnostics cover a very wide variety of beliefs including a belief in God, or the disbelief in god. Atheists, however, believe there is no God. While you might not be "100%" sure whether or not God exists, many make such claims. Christians make the claim that they are /sure/ God exists, and Atheists make the claim that they are /sure/ god does not exist.
Debate Round No. 1
blond_guy

Pro

1) Your first argument is what I call a smartace remark. You know exactly what I mean by "without balls" so drop that argument.

2)<>

That made no sense. If you meant "that doesn't make all Muslim people Christian" then you're playing the "everyone has the rights to their own views" card. That's not what this debate is about. I didn't say "no one should be an agnostic", I just said what I think of agnostics.

<>

Exactly, so since no one is 100% sure, we're all agnostics. Atheist doesn't mean we don't believe in God, it means we have no religion.
A theist
A as in none (e.g. asexual) theist comes from the word theism,
short for religion. (e.g. theology

The term agnostic is for those who don't want to sound like bad people by saying "I'm an atheist", because atheists are discriminated 10000000% more than agnostics.
DucoNihilum

Con

I think you might have a general misunderstanding of what agnosticism is- this will turn out to be rather ironic later on in this debate when I make some of my last points.

Firstly, I feel the need to clarify my position regarding Muslims. Your original argument was that all agnostics are really atheists without balls, they have reason to be afraid of becoming atheists because atheists are persecuted more than agnostics. This argument is flawed. This argument essentially calls every single agnostic an atheist who is afraid of the persecution that you may receive from being an atheist. This same argument can be applied to other belief systems that might be rather disliked, for example, Muslims. You could make the argument, using the same logic, that all people who are non christian are Muslims. After all, maybe they all simply are afraid of becoming Muslim....

You seem to have a misunderstanding of exactly what atheists are, and what agnostics are.

Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no God. (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

An agnostic is a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)

So, most atheists are people who make an absolute claim that god does not exist. Most agnostics are those who would claim that we can not know whether or not god exists, some lean theistic, some, like me, lean atheistic. Most Theists believe that a God or Gods exist. The difference between an Atheist and an Agnostic is the claim to knowledge. Atheists claim knowledge, and agnostics do not.

I see no difference in the discrimination of Atheists and Agnostics, and I doubt your statistic is correct in regards to exactly how much more they are discriminated against than agnostics.

For some of my last arguments I would like to quote my opponent himself, saying that 'we're all agnostics.'- thus, unless he would also like to make the claim that nobody 'has balls' then I clearly win. He essentially claims that all people who hold logic to be important are agnostic, contradicting himself in the process. Agnostics are not people 'without balls', but people with logic. They understand that it is impossible to prove that God exists, so they refuse to believe in god- they they also feel that is impossible to prove that God does not exist, so they can not make the claim that "God does not exist" without proof of that claim. My opponent, in fact, seems like a rather logical person, saying himself that "no one is 100% sure". Perhaps from his own experience he is not 100% sure either way, making him an agnostic- but those who do actually make claim to knowledge, atheists, theists, and the like do in fact claim that they are SURE God exists or that they are SURE God does not exist.

Things are far more complicated than people not wanting to be discriminated against, you're simplifying a large spectrum of belief and non belief. I personally am not afraid of discrimination, and do not hold claim to knowledge of whether or not God exists. Since you made the broad claim that [All] Agnostics are just atheists without balls and I am not an Atheist (I hold no claim to knowedge) then I prove you wrong myself, by existing and beleiving what I do.
Debate Round No. 2
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DucoNihilum 9 years ago
DucoNihilum
Perhaps you should change yours, byebyepats? Ever since I read your comments I can't help but see you as a fool.
Posted by byebyepats 9 years ago
byebyepats
I would change your picture con. Ever since you defended kiddie porn I can't help but see you as a child molester.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
Holy crap! my new hero... DucoNihilum you are great. Witty, intelligent, fast pace, you are a wonderful debater.
Posted by Vi_Veri 9 years ago
Vi_Veri
There was a poll done as to who you would like least as your president. Atheists won that poll. Shows you people's misunderstanding of atheists when they will put an Evangelical or Scientologist ahead of us...
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Morals sometimes do have to do with trustworthiness, but the point is atheists and agnostics have morals without god. Most people disagree and therefor view them as untrustworthy.

I don't know about the most discriminated aginst, I just thought I'd lend a hand in clarifying that aspect.

People do discriminate too though, in many states you can't hold public office if you're an atheists and many adoption agencies wont adopt out to atheists couples. The boy scouts wont take you if you're atheits. Whether that is more discrimination than other groups, I don;t know, but it's there.
Posted by DucoNihilum 9 years ago
DucoNihilum
Just because your group isn't VIEWED as trustworthy doesn't mean they are not trustworthy.
Posted by Kierkegaard 9 years ago
Kierkegaard
You don't see how being trustworthy has anything to do with being trustworthy?

I'm thoroughly confused...
Posted by DucoNihilum 9 years ago
DucoNihilum
Being trustworthy might very well be a moral, but I don't see how that has anything to do with being viewed as trustworthy.
Posted by Kierkegaard 9 years ago
Kierkegaard
Well, artC, I think being trustworthy is certainly a moral. Don't you?

Besides, I still am skeptical that they're the most "discriminated" against.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
kierkegaard- I think what he meant was that there were a few polls in which people were asked abou the trusworthiness of certain groups and it turns out that atheists, and agnostics for that matter, are the least trusted people in America. It has to do with peoples conception that without god there are no morals.
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