The Instigator
gemmahartley
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
gomergcc
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Air strikes on ISIS are a waste of time

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
gomergcc
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 913 times Debate No: 67277
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

gemmahartley

Pro

First off I would like to state that in no way do I credit what ISIS or any other linked terrorist group are doing, personally I think it's disgusting, I am just here to argue the air strikes.
I will be arguing that air strikes on ISIS in Iraq ect. are a waste of time.
Let's keep it clean, good luck to you all.
gomergcc

Con


The goal of the air strikes is to take out enough of the high and mid-level ISIS leadership to enable the Iraq military to win a military campaign. Nearly 1,000, ISIS member have been killed. This includes the leader of the military, and the second in command of ISIS. This is not what I would call a waste of time.


http://abcnews.go.com...


Debate Round No. 1
gemmahartley

Pro

I agree that, that was a feat to indeed be proud of, but ISIS are an organization spanning throughout Iraq and Iran. It will not be difficult for them to find new high end commanders. And it's going to take a long period of time before Kurdish forces can even think of a ground military strike, because of the fact so many young Muslims are leaving Britain, France and Australia to fight. So having a desired number of hits means nothing when ISIS are forever growing.
gomergcc

Con

Most of the reason that ISIS is the threat they are is because the military arm of ISIS is ex Iraqi officers. They are what remains of Saddam Hussein’s troops. These are battle hardened men with years of experience in war. They are the main targets for the drones. They are making ISIS not only a terrorist organization but a military one. They are not so easy to replace as your argument suggests. Young inexperienced men cannot train men and implement effective military strategy. Iraq’s military is losing to the experience of these men. Numbers are not as important in war as experience. Think about if at the battle of Thermopylae if Greeks were not being leaded by 300 highly trained Spartans. While the battle was lost the experience of these men were the turning points in the war.

“I agree that, that was a feat to indeed be proud of”

The BoP of this argument is not if, "this is the best strategy," but only of it is a waste of time. If my opponent can be proud of the feat then how is it a waste of time? Is not the waste of time to do nothing?

As for why this is all the US is doing it is because it is all the Iraq government will let us do.

Haider al-Abadi Iraq's Prime Minster was asked by AP during an interview about the US or international community sending boots on the ground. He stated:


"Not only is it not necessary," he said, "We don't want them. We won't allow them. Full stop." "The only contribution the American forces or the international coalition is going to help us with is from the sky," al-Abadi said. "We are not giving any blank check to the international coalition to hit any target in Iraq."

http://www.foxnews.com...

http://www.weeklystandard.com...

Debate Round No. 2
gemmahartley

Pro

Let's take one main example of an 'inexperienced young Muslim' Jihadi John, this young man has been responsible for the horrific beheadings of innocent aid workers and journalists. Everyone has a use to ISIS, that's why a 15 year old girl was recently arrested for going to join the fight because they want all the help.
Experience doesn't always matter, and taking examples from history we can look at the Vietnam war. America were highly expeienced was vastly superior, yet they lost to an army of rice farmers.
We cannot always rely on air strikes to save the day, let's take the recent inncident of the US dropping artillery and guns into Jihadi terriotry by accident.
Another point is we have been talking for months, almost a year about how we are going to kill the leader of ISIS, yet he is not dead. We may have killed 1,000 ISIS members, but what about civillian deaths? or Kurdish army deaths? That totals up to a number vastly outweighing that of the terroists. 6,500 innocent deaths due to taregts being got wrong, or Kurdish forces entering on the ground when they shouldn't.
We are playing with innocent lives, in the hope that something MIGHT happen in the future, we cannot keep going on like that, it's a waste of lives, money AND time.
gomergcc

Con


Muslim' Jihadi John is a british medical student so he does have experience that relate to his crimes and has been trained by the top leadership of ISIS. Also the drone strikes hit him last month.


Experience doesn't always matter, and taking examples from history we can look at the Vietnam war. America were highly expeienced was vastly superior, yet they lost to an army of rice farmers.


If you’re going to say they were rice farmers then I say it was rice farmers vs corn framers and cattle herders. As for their experience they had a ton were it counted. The US sent troops that had never been in a jungle in their lives. The faced people that had sent the whole lives in a jungle were every day was life and death. Having the experience have having to notice the panther trying to eat you really help them know were US troops were in the dense jungle. They also had been trained by battle hardened men. They were not just rice farmers they were solders.


Another point is we have been talking for months, almost a year about how we are going to kill the leader of ISIS, yet he is not dead. We may have killed 1,000 ISIS members, but what about civillian deaths? or Kurdish army deaths? That totals up to a number vastly outweighing that of the terroists. 6,500 innocent deaths due to taregts being got wrong, or Kurdish forces entering on the ground when they shouldn't.


You have not sited a source for these numbers. The only number is can find is that droning strikes worldwide, since Obama took office, is 2,400. That is the only number I can find that is current. I think that you are adding in totals since before the drone strikes. Until you site sources I will consider these numbers incorrect.


We are playing with innocent lives, in the hope that something MIGHT happen in the future, we cannot keep going on like that, it's a waste of lives, money AND time.


You are again not staying on the topic of this debate. You are trying to use the argument there is a better strategy. That is not your BoP. Your BoP is,” I will be arguing that air strikes on ISIS in Iraq ect. are a waste of time.” Here is how I am meeting my BoP by showing it is not a waste of time:


*The drone strikes have taken out about 1,000 high value ISIS targets.


*The drone strikes are all the Iraq government will allow and are part of their military strategy.


*That even a strategy that is not the most effective is still not a waste of time because doing something about a problem is better that doing nothing about it.


*That my opponent agrees that the strikes are a feat to be proud of.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com...


Debate Round No. 3
gemmahartley

Pro

gemmahartley forfeited this round.
gomergcc

Con


I have met my burden of proof. I have shown that even if you disagree with the drone strikes, or think another strategy is better, it is not a waste of time.


Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by gemmahartley 2 years ago
gemmahartley
You didn't answer my question, why do something that isn't going to work anyway, it's a waste of a lot of things, money, lives and time.
Posted by kbub 2 years ago
kbub
I'm saying time isn't very relevant. Since people are dying, it's almost... disrespectful to talk about time. IMO.
Posted by gemmahartley 2 years ago
gemmahartley
What's the point if it won't work?
Posted by kbub 2 years ago
kbub
A waste of a lot of things...i.e. *human life*... but "time?"
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Oliark 2 years ago
Oliark
gemmahartleygomergccTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture