The Instigator
Knaveslayer99
Pro (for)
The Contender
PowerPikachu21
Con (against)

Ajani Goldmane Versus (Your Fantasy Character)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/25/2016 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 553 times Debate No: 98428
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

Knaveslayer99

Pro

Debate:

Ajani Goldmane Versus (Your Fantasy Character)

This Debate will focus on two characters Ajani Goldmane Versus (Insert opponents character) this will be very much a Death Battle except that a character may submit to defeat and does not have to be "killed" so invincible characters e.g. Deadpool although cannot die can still be defeated.

Rules:

- Your character cannot be on Superman level power or higher (Prismo).
- Cannot be planet busters.
- Your character must be possible to kill/defeat.
- Your character cannot have Super Weapons (This includes swords they can destroy entire worlds and or spells that can level entire cities with a single blast)
- Try to pick a character that is a fair match up.
- Must be an established Fantasy character. (No made up created characters)
- Try to have fun and enjoy the debate. (This is mandatory)

Round Layout:

- R1 = Acceptence
- R2 = Character's stories/feats
- R3 = Arguments
- R4 = Counter-Arguments
- R5 = Conclusion/Final Statements.

I will be debating in favor of Ajani Goldmane from the Magic The Gathering Universe.



- Ajani Goldmane (Mentor Of Heroes)
PowerPikachu21

Con

My character is Amaterasu from CapCom's Okami. You speak of a Round 5, which this debate is only 4 rounds. Let's use the 2nd round to tell how strong our chosen fighter is. I look forward to an interesting battle. (I don't know how strong Goldmane is, and I'm not going to read all of his wiki page. It doesn't seem to have a "powers and abilities" page)
Debate Round No. 1
Knaveslayer99

Pro

I will now state who and just how strong Ajani Goldmane is along with some of his most notable feats.

Ajani Goldmane was born on the shard plane of Naya which is apart of a bigger plane known as Alara. Ajani was born an albino his fur was pure white and was nothing like the fellow leonin people of his tribe which resulted in them treating him like an outcast however Ajani's brother Jazal Goldmane was the chieftain of the tribe Ajani was involved in. Ajani himself studied the magic of the soul which allowed him to look into the souls of his enemies allowing him to either create a copy of them in the form of their very soul or heal others physical injuries by mending their souls. However one night Ajani's tribe fell under attack by shadow creatures Ajani was quick to rush to his brothers hut in an attempt to check on his brother however despite Ajani's haste he was wasn't fast enough and ended up walking in just as his brother met his fate and his brother Jazal died to his own black axe. Ajani now heartbroken grabbed the axe and began to sob before suddenly waking up in a completely different world. This world was the shard plane known as Jund on Jund Ajani ran into the planeswalker Sarkhan Vol who influenced Ajani to go down a dark path of revenge. Ajani at first agreed it was the best course of action as it would avenge his brother however after many attempts of trying to find out who caused the attack on his village he was finally led to a Dragon Planeswalker known as Nicol Bolas.

Nicol Bolas was attempting to unite all the shards of Alara into one plane through what he called the "Conflux" Nicol's plan was to absorb the power from the "Conflux" in order to gain the power he had lost in the mending. However multiple armies from each different shard of Alara opposed him this was however no threat to Nicol as he was quick to dispatch them by severing their ties to mana. Ajani then quickly using his soul mending magic cut Nicol's hold onto them then used what mana he had left to create a Soul copy of Nicol in which they engaged in combat. Eventually Ajani emerged victorious.

Ajani then went on a journey to find an old friend of his a friend he had made during this huge conflict on Alara he attempted to find a knight who went by the name of Elspeth Tirel. He finally tracked her down where she was found fighting for money. Ajani attempted to swade her to join him and leave such a life behind but she refused so Ajani once again gave her some advance and planeswalked away. He would later return to another plane the plane of Theros to visit a friend of his a Leonin named Brimaz. On Theros he ran into his old friend Elspeth and learned that she was chosen by the God Heloid to be his Champion upon hearing this Ajani offered to help as he still owed her a favor. He helped train her and fight with her as they were tasked with stopping the god Xenogos a newly formed god who was once a planeswalker. After a long heated battle with the new god Elspeth was able to defeat him with the help of Ajani. However tragedy would strike Ajani again as Heloid God of the Sun became jealous of Elspeth and plunged his spear into her chest killing his own champion.

Heartbroken once again Ajani held the robes of his deceased friend as her body was dragged into the underworld. Ajani swore revenge on the gods but would not use violence rather he would preach about the gods and how they drew power from pray and in order to defeat the gods especially the one who killed his own champion Ajani convinced many on Theros to stop praying to the gods.

[This was quick summary of Ajani's story]

Ajani himself is a strong physical character with incredible ties to white mana (Soul Magic) using it to heal unbelievable wounds aswell as create avatars of others by turning their own soul against them. The most notable feat Ajani has done is defeat the Planeswalker Nicol Bolas as Nicol is considered to be the most powerful Planeswalker in the current MTG Timeline [Alive Planeswalker]. Ajani is a quick thinker and often doesn't turn to violence using magic to make his characters submit or exiling them to another world assuming they aren't to powerful for him to handle.

[Sorry if this seems rushed]

[Sources]
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com...
http://magic.wizards.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com... - [It has ties into Ajani's story]
PowerPikachu21

Con

A planeswalker vs a celestial wolf. Quite a match-up. I guess I can give some backstory, as Okami isn't as widely known as Street Fighter or Ace Attorney.

The Legend of Shiranui:

100 years prior to Okami's events, a 7 headed serpent, Yamata no Orochi, ruled tyranny over Nippon. Orochi would ask for a fair maiden as a nice dinner. However, the great hero Nagi had enough, and went to the Moon Cave, Orochi's lair, instead of letting his beloved get eaten. However, though Orochi and Nagi clashed, Orochi was too powerful. When, all of a sudden, a white wolf appeared to assist Nagi. It went by the name of Shiranui. Together with Nagi, the wolf successfully slew the serpent.

100 years after the battle, Susano, Nagi's desendant, accidentally freed Orochi from his seal. That's when the white wolf was reincarnated, now known by Okami Amaterasu, the Goddess of the Sun. She eventually slew Orochi, as well as a tiny knight, a nine tailed fox, and even Yami; darkness itself.

Alright, story over. Time to get into what Amaterasu is capable of.

Argument:

Strength:

Amaterasu's headbutt can destroy iron ore5. Her paws are strong enough to dig through stone, though mainly relies on her Divine Instruments to attack, which I'll get into later.

Agility:

Amaterasu can jump off of walls, and double jump. She can run a bit faster than a normal wolf (I don't plan on confirming that statement). While not overly agile, she can use the Viel of Mist Celestial Brush technique to slow time by half.

Durability:

Amaterasu has withstood swords, ice, fire, and electricity. She can survive numerous attacks, but does have a limit to how much she can take.

Equipment:

Divine Instruments: Amaterasu wields 3 different types of weapons; Reflectors, Rosaries, and Glaives. Reflectors can reflect projectiles, and even give Ammy a counter attack. Reflectors can also be used as an actual weapon. Rosaries are long ranged, and hit multiple times. Rosaries can also be launched as a projectile. The Tundra Beads, a type of Rosary, does ice damage. Glaives are slow, but deal strong damage. With a glaive, Ammy can charge up a powerful attack, which does more damage than an uncharged Glaive strike. The Thunder Edge is a Glaive that deals electric damage.

Celestial Brush:

Being from the Celestial Plain, Amaterasu can use the Celestial Brush; a special ability that can not be taught. When Amaterasu draws a symbol, something happens, depending on the symbol drawn. This isn't on paper, but rather time stops, and Amaterasu draws a symbol on reality. Here are some abilities Ammy has:

Inferno: Amaterasu can create fire in an infinity symbol's shape. She also can put something on fire by directing already existing fire to a target.

Waterspout: Ammy can control water. She can direct a stream of water from already existing water, or make it rain.

Galestorm: Amaterasu can create wind, as well as a hurricane.

(Sadly, not able to bend earth. Had to make that joke.)

Power Slash: The most simple of the techniques. The Power Slash can cut straight through diamond and iron ore.

Thunderstorm: Amaterasu can create lightning, as well as make a stream of electricity from an already existing source.

Cherry Bomb: It's not an actual cherry, but it is a bomb. It's capable of destroying cracked walls, and quite dangerous.

Blizzard: Like all of the other listed elements, it can be created, or directed from an already existing source.

Viel of Mist: Like I said before, it can slow time by half.

There's also Sunrise, Crescent, Catwalk, and Greensprout. Rejuvination too. But those aren't really helpful in a fight.

And, before my opponent says anything, yes the Celestial Brush runs on divine ink. But it does regenerate and Amaterasu doesn't spam.

Conclusion:

Amaterasu is pretty powerful. Round 3 is examination, so go ahead and see what's wrong with Ammy. Also, one question: How strong are Goldmane's clones?
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Knaveslayer99 1 year ago
Knaveslayer99
I'm so sorry for not being able to post in Round 3 I had a lot of stuff come up at work since well it was around Christmas and New Years so I do apologize deeply.

As for Ajani the soul isn't completely mindless as Ajani can project the soul as either good or bad as he did against Nicol Bolas. You are correct though Ajani isn't violent infact he became a pacifist after the loss of his friend Elsepth Toriel hence why in current lore Ajani on Kaladesh exiles his foes to another plane of existence rather than strike them down. However one major issues lies with your evaluation of Ajani. Ajani has and can use other forms of mana mainly green as it reminds him of his home on Naya as green mana is often built around boosting your allies by giving them strength. This is why despite Nicol being stronger than his Soul copy he wasn't able to defeat it as Ajani was fueling it using Green Mana.

Anyhow I believe the fight would likely end with either a tie or one of them getting the slight upper hand but work decided to hit me hard in the face so if you'd like to do this debate again just let me know or we could use different characters anyhow. Once again I am deeply sorry for not submitting anything in round 3.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
So here's how I imagine the fight would go: Ajani Goldmane uses his powers to form a copy of Amaterasu, which the copy has both the physical, spiritual, and weaponry prowess of True Amaterasu. Since both Soul Amaterasu and True Amaterasu can use the Celestial Brush, they would simply deny the other's Brush powers by cancelling their brush strokes. Amaterasu could either fight Soul Ammy head on, or Goldmane himself. Seeing as how Goldmane is commanding a tough force, Amaterasu would try to get him to submit to defeat via Ammy's Divine Instruments. If Soul Ammy gets to be too much, True Amaterasu could use the Reflector Counter, which she can also use on Goldmane. Keep in mind the Soul Copy is merely a soul, so it likely doesn't have the ability to think like True Ammy.

So when you think about it, it's a close match. But eventually Goldmane would lose, since he'd run out of White Mana to heal himself and Soul Amaterasu. Another thing: Goldmane isn't that violent. He'd probably submit to a Celestial Goddess like Amaterasu faster than Orochi would, considering Goldmane sees that Ammy always has good intentions.

But we don't know enough to make a clear cut verdict. There's no information on Goldmane's main mechanic: the soul copies. As far as I'm concerned, a soul copy is merely a mindless minion, only doing actions based off of instinct and Goldmane's commands. And another thing: Ammy's soul is pure and with good intent, so would that affect the copy's instinct?

My final verdict between the white coated heroes, Amaterasu wins. You can go back to Kamiki Village, Amaterasu.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
He probably hasn't even seen my Round 2 yet. No need to research Amaterasu, like I said before. I've already told everything I know about Amaterasu, the Divine Instruments, and her Celestial Brush.

I've already made enough comments in between rounds as it is, but all this time had gave me enough time to say that the strength of the copies doesn't really matter. I'll let the soul copy of Amaterasu be as strong as the real Amaterasu. (Forgot one other thing regarding the Celestial Brush: If Soul Amaterasu were to try to use the Celestial Brush, True Ammy can cancel the ability by drawing on Soul Ammy's symbol, and vice versa) [In case you're confused, "Ammy" is the nickname given to Amaterasu by her companion Issun so he, and us, don't have to say "Amaterasu" all the time.]
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Still hasn't been online for the past 60 hours. I hope he at least saw my argument. Anyways, I'm not one to hide information. But I'm not an expert of Okami, but I do own the game, and I do research. I'm guessing Knaveslayer99 is a fan of MTG, and knows a lot about his characters. That is... the information present, anyways. I might make this an actual argument in Round 3. There's just not enough information on Goldmane to know how he fights, other than he has an axe, soul copy (strength unknown), and healing. Amaterasu is overall more developed, having a story, video game, weapons, and the Celestial Brush. We can measure the Divine Instruments' strength via how much damage they do. We can confirm that the Celestial Brush can manipulate elements, and has destructive prowess.

... I hope he comes back. I think that's enough for arguments outside of the debate.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
11 hours until he times out. Then again, I also procrasinate.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
I actually don't think there's a lot of information on Goldmane's abilities, at least on the Internet. I don't think we can logically assume Goldmane would win, without guessing how the fight would turn out. I have 2 questions about Goldmane, so I can find out how this battle would play out: 1: How strong are the clones? 2: Does Goldmane have limited White Mana?
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
And speaking of sources... I appreciate healer lions seeking for revenge, but I only really need 1 wiki page to confirm his lore. Find sources that show how he'd go about defeating a god.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
I should probably put some sources.

Amaterasu: http://okami.wikia.com...
Divine Instruments: http://okami.wikia.com...
Celestial Brush: http://okami.wikia.com...
Amaterasu's physical strength: http://okami.wikia.com...

(Hardhead for headbutt, and Digging Champ for digging through stone.)

(Guidance and Magnetism are used by Chibiterasu, Ammy's son. As such, I will assume Amaterasu can't use these 2 techniques.)
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Actually, around 8:10 AM. He still has to either stay up late, or wake up early to post, if he doesn't within 2 hours from now.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Knaveslayer99 has until around 7:10 AM to post his argument for Ajani Goldmane. And he hasn't been online for the past 12 hours, and I worry he'll run out of time. Again, let me worry about researching Amaterasu. Round 2 is jsut constructing arguments for your own character, not for disproving Ammy's strength.
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