The Instigator
mia11111
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Zarroette
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Ali and Cece are A

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Zarroette
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 532 times Debate No: 68163
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

mia11111

Pro

1.I strongly believe that Cece and Ali are A because Mona finds proof of Ali being A before she dies.
2. If you look closely during the episode of Mona's death, you can see that in one shot of A, A has blonde hair that is slightly shorter and is curled only in the front (Ali's hair style) and in another shot of A, A has long hair that is completely curled (Cece).
3.At the end of the episode, when it is announced that Mona was murdered, the camera goes straight to Ali hiding in the background.
4. In the next episode (the Christmas episode), we see that Ali is probably hooking up with Detective Holbrook which would make it easy for her to sneak Cece out of the country
5.Cece shows up at the charity ball about a month after Monas death, suggesting that she was there during the murder.
6.At the end of the episode, right after Ali watches the girls eating, Ali decides that she doesn't want them to be happy so she sends them the A message.
7.In the next episode, Mrs. Vanderwal accuses Ali of killing Mona.
8.Near the end of the episode, there's an A message. The message could not be from Ali because she's in jail so it must have been from Cece.
9. At the end of the episode, when Ali is in her jail cell, there is commotion somewhere in the hallway and there are footsteps that get closer and closer to her. It's probably Cece trying to get Ali out of jail.
10. Ali is caught only once Holbrook is away, suggesting that he had been protecting her.
Zarroette

Con

Thank you, mia11111 for instigating this debate.


Negative Case


A1: Inductive Logic

The problem with my opponent's arguments is that some of them are formed using inductive logic. Inductive logic only holds a degree in probability, rather than an obsolute certainty [1]. This renders my opponent's arguments confirming that Ali and Cece are A as *likely*, yet this does not fulfil the burden of proof to confirm that Ali and Cece are A (which is the resolution).

For example:

"If you look closely during the episode of Mona's death, you can see that in one shot of A, A has blonde hair that is slightly shorter and is curled only in the front (Ali's hair style) and in another shot of A, A has long hair that is completely curled (Cece)."

A's blonde hair does not necessarily mean that because Ali has a similar hairstyle, it has to be Ali. It is *likely* that it is Ali, yet this is not confirmed with this proof.


A2: Bare assertions

The other problem with my opponent's arguments it that they are bare assertions.

For example:

"I strongly believe that Cece and Ali are A because Mona finds proof of Ali being A before she dies."

What is this proof? Where is this proof? How do we know that you are not making this up? Until proof is given, statements like these are bare assertions.

C: Conclusion

Due to my opponent's arguments being either inductive in their logic and/or bare assertions, my opponent's argument do not meet the standard of evidence required to affirm the resolution. Therefore, the resolution is negated.


Reference

[1] http://plato.stanford.edu...
Debate Round No. 1
mia11111

Pro

Your definition of inductive is correct, although your reason being had no applicability to what the word 'inductive'. You were not clear on what you were attempting to say. I said probably, but in my defense, 'probably' was the only word applicable in that matter. I'd also like to point out, you did not give a reason stating that Ali and Cece are not A. What you said was not a counter argument or a debate, it was merely a comment made for the comment section.
Zarroette

Con

Thank you, mia11111.


Negative Case


A1: Inductive Logic

My opponent claims that I was not clear with my explanation. However, my opponent agrees that she said "probably", which implictly concedes the debate. Again, my opponent has to prove, in order to fulfil the resolution, that Ali and Cece are A, NOT that they are likely A. Hence, my contention here still stands.


A2: Bare assertions

This point was completely dropped. My opponent gives no evidence to show that any of what she said was true. For this reason alone, my opponent fails to meet her burden of proof, and therefore fails to affirm the resolution, leaving it negated (which wins me the debate).


Rebuttals



"I'd also like to point out, you did not give a reason stating that Ali and Cece are not A."

My opponent commits a negative proof fallacy by assuming that Con is the one that has to provide evidence [1].

It would be like saying that because you cannot disprove that God exists (cannot give a reason stating that Ali and Cece are not A), therefore God exists (therefore, Ali and Cece are A). Rather, what the actual result is that God is neither proven nor disproven, hence you cannot say that He exists. Similarly, you cannot say that Ali and Cece are either A or not A, hence you cannot say that they are A.



C: Summary of the debate

Both my contentions stand, the first esepcially so since my opponent agreed with me, and the latter because my opponent never addressed it. The resolution is negated.



Reference

[1] http://rationalwiki.org...
Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
You tried your best with the debate, Mia. However, next time, try to be a bit more polite. Being rude doesn't get you anywhere in life. Just a friendly tip for you ;)
Posted by Lexus 2 years ago
Lexus
wat
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
mia11111ZarroetteTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Tie. Both had proper conduct throughout. S&G - Tie. Both had adequate spelling and grammar throughout. Arguments - Con. Pro dropped the line of argumentation regarding 'Bare Assertions'. Pro also misunderstands that the BOP was on her to prove that Ali and Cece are A, as Con pointed out in the final round. By relying on inductive reasoning, coupled with the lack of evidence and dropped points all committed by Pro, Con clearly wins arguments. Sources - Con. Pro failed to utilize sources whatsoever in the debate whereas Con did.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
mia11111ZarroetteTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: All of Con's points were dropped.
Vote Placed by Clovis 2 years ago
Clovis
mia11111ZarroetteTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro does not satisfy the Burden of Proof in showing that Ali and Cece are A. At best Pro shows that they are likely A but the Resolution requires that they be shown to definitively be A. Since Pro fails to do this and Con refutes all of Pros arguments adequetely Con wins.
Vote Placed by Valar_Dohaeris 2 years ago
Valar_Dohaeris
mia11111ZarroetteTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro literally just dropped every possible argument. Con negated everything effectively enough to bring the BOP into question