The Instigator
PhiteWower
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

All Bronies Clop to MLP:FiM.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/6/2016 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 823 times Debate No: 84606
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (3)

 

PhiteWower

Pro

When I saw all 'bronies' I mean all 'bronies', because if the majority of a fandom does something then it can be said that is what it means to be a fan. If the majority of bronies(adult male MLP:FiM fans) masturbate to a cartoon designed for little girls then that can be part of what it means to be a "Brony".

The majority of bronies clop and therefore being a brony means you clop.
https://www.reddit.com...
lannan13

Con

I accept this debate and take the Negation position in this debate.



First we must analyse the definition of "all."

All is defined as, " every member or part of." [1] In my last round my opponent, himself, stated that a marjoity of Bronies clop. Now let's check the definition of Majority, "the group or party that is the greater part of a large group." [2] Next we shall define Brony, "A brony is a fan of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic that is outside the target demographic of little girls. Most bronies are friendly teenagers and young adults that simply aren't afraid to admit that they enjoy a show which is innocent, colorful, and funny." [3]

Now let's address my opponent's case now that these definitions are out of the way. My opponent makes a logical fallacy of the "No True Scottsman," when he states that all Bronies masterbate. This is shown that not all people that do something are part of this which is another logical fallacy known as "Composition Fallacy." This is shown that not because something is true for a small portion doesn't make it true for everyone. The same survey that my opponent has sited states that 60% of the people have NOT clopped. This is already disproving his claim on the majority of Bronies clopping. Not to mention that this survey is done on redit which is not that much of a creditable source, not to mention since it's a pornographic section about MLP called Clop-Clop. The issue on why this is skewed is that people who don't masterbate to it simply do not view the website excluding a huge portion of the fan base. Next moving on, even if we were to take my opponent's argument as true for the majority clops, we can see, that as I defined, that the Majority is not all.

With that I thank you and please vote Con!



Sources
1. (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
2. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
3. (http://whatisabrony.com...)
Debate Round No. 1
PhiteWower

Pro

First I will clarify the definition of 'Brony' is: [1]"Brony" is an Internet slang term used to describe a teenage or adult male fan of the TV cartoon series My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (MLP:FiM). For this debate I will only refer to males ages 18 and up.

I will also define a 'Clopper': Someone who actively masturbates to anything related to MLP:FiM. I will also prove that a Clopper and Brony are one in the same.

With this quote from a Brony : [2]"I guess I might as well be honest. I have clopped before, but it's not something I necessarily do regularly, so I wouldn't really call myself a clopper." Shows that a brony who doesn't define themselves as a clopper and yet still masturbates to MLP:FiM. Since the idea of being a Brony is a loose mob ideology then their beliefs and actions are defined what the majority believes and does. Thus when proving the majority clops then to be a brony is to clop.

Clop: The act of masturbating to MLP:FiM (also is used to refer to pornographic material of the show)

The beliefs and actions of the majority define the group and therefore what being a Brony is. [3]In this survey from a MLP Forum the majority once again were all cloppers.

I will now point out Con's discrepancies and outright dishonesty.

The composition fallacy is irrelevant because bronies are guilty by association. Also know as [4]"joint enterprise", a doctrine of common law used to convict entire groups of the same crime. If you do not wished to be lumped into a group of people then don't associate yourself as one of those people. Since "Love and Tolerate" is the motto of being a brony then being an enabler makes them as guilty as the perpetrator for accepting, promoting, or permitting their actions.

The term "No True Scotsman" has overtones of nationalism, traditions, and race of which being a brony is none and therefore is inapplicable. Also it's an unreasoned assertion when my argument is quite the opposite since it is based on facts and statistics.

Con is being dishonest or willfully ignorant when mentioning that survey, "The same survey that my opponent has sited states that 60% of the people have NOT clopped."-Con when in fact it stated 84% of the bronies had in fact "clopped"[5]. A landslide majority.

Con's has shown that his argument is limited, dishonest and uses terms that don't apply.
The obvious choice is Pro.

Sources:
1. (http://knowyourmeme.com...)
2. (https://mlpforums.com...)
3. (https://mlpforums.com...)
4. (https://en.wikipedia.org...)
5. (https://www.reddit.com...)
lannan13

Con

I will begin by stating that my opponent has already made a huge mistake in this debate by failing on Topicality. When the instigator of the debate fails to define the terms then it is their opponent's job to define the terms and they have no choice, but to accept the definitions. I have done that and with the Topicality in mind, all of my opponent's definitions are thrown out of the window.

My opponent then continues to use an ad hom to claim that I am being dishonnest. I would like the voters to keep this in mind as they are voting on the debate.

My opponent claims that the Composition fallacy is irrelivant due to "guility by association and a "join enterprise. The definition refers to criminal activity, which this resolution has nothing to do with criminal activity and must be thrown out of the debate. Not only that, but this argument is like saying, since Hilary Clinton is a democrat and has committed a crime against the US due to the Bengahzi incident then all Democrats are Criminals. This is a complete fallacy and simply not true. Though if we do want to look at Criminal Procedures we can see that if people of the group are unable to stop the crime then they cannot be guilty. [1] We all know that we cannot stop people from halfway around the world from masterbating especially if we do not know they are a Brony in the first place. Either way, this argument stands.

My opponent is pulling a Red Heron argument by stating that the No True Scottsman fallacy argument should be discarded due to race. Even if we took the title out of the picture we can still see that my opponent is still guilty of the argument especially since it was dropped. The structure of the "No True Scottsman fallacy" is bellow. [2]

P1: All X are Y.
P2: All X are clearly not Y.
C1: All true X are Y.

When applied to this debate.

P1: All Bronies clop.
P2: All Bronies don't not clop.
C1: All true Bronies clop.

This resolution fits perfectly here and my opponent has committed this crime.

As for the survey, keep in mind that it is completely bias since it is a porn site for clopping and MLP fan fics. This is already showing the bias of the people who participated in the poll. While on a non-pornographic MLP website. A poll taken has shown that out of the people who took the survey are viewed as a "Clopper."
Yes: (274 votes) 34.04%
No: (531 votes) 65.96% [3]

My opponent's survey has 400 people on it while my is over 800 people. This is double of my opponent's poll and it is NOT on a porn site.


Sources
1. (http://www.encyclopedia.com...)
2. (http://rationalwiki.org...)
3. ( https://mlpforums.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
PhiteWower

Pro

Topicality? Pro can clarify a definition that Pro made that in turn Con tried to redefine since Con's definition was argumentum ad passiones "Most bronies are friendly teenagers and young adults that simply aren't afraid to admit that they enjoy a show which is innocent, colorful, and funny" (Also known as Appeal to emotion) [1] Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument. '

Con attempts to discredit Pro by Argument from fallacy[2] when the points made by Pro were directed at Con's argument which misrepresented evidence. ex. claimed survey[3] said 60% had not clopped when it was only 14%

Con attempts to Strawman 'Joint Enterprise' over criminality even then is futile because acts such as these could be considered criminal[4] which part of the brony fandom is producing/distributing pornographic images of a children show .

[5]"...her 6-year-old daughter, Jillian, watch "My Little Pony" videos. But when she left the room for a moment, she heard something that didn"t sound anything like a cartoon. Her daughter had stumbled upon a graphic video..."
Any attempts by Con to shift the blame would be dishonest and self-serving.

Referring to[6] My point cannot be the "No True Scotsman" because I am not excluding people, I am including others based on evidence,which is the complete opposite. When it is actually the bronies who exclude cloppers from themselves This is generally done in order to make the case that no element worthy of criticism can ever be held against them.

The fault lies in "P2: All X are clearly not Y"
the difference between X and Y is minimal and condenses down to
'X Claims not to be Y Because Y has negative connotation'.

When applied to this debate
P1: All Bronies clop
P2: Bronies claim not to be Cloppers because Clopper has a negative connotation.
C1: All Bronies clop

Con's argument continually ignores the quote Pro posted from a brony on that same poll which showed how a brony could masturbate to MLP and still not consider himself a clopper the amount of bronies that claimed to masturbate to MLP in that poll was 57% A majority while all of them do not consider themselves a "clopper" they are still a 'brony' and still 'clop'.
Yes (465 votes [57.76%]
No (340 votes [42.24%] [7]

Which the original point is that all bronies clop, not whether all cloppers clop to which would be redundant.

If Con does not concede then the only option is to vote Pro.

Sources
1. https://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://rationalwiki.org...
3. https://www.reddit.com...
4. https://www.law.cornell.edu...
5. http://www.nytimes.com...
6. http://rationalwiki.org...
7. https://mlpforums.com...
lannan13

Con

As this debate ends I would like to go and explain why I've won this debate.

Now we have to look at the definition. All, this means everyone. My opponent has time and time again in this debate that only a majority. A majority is simply not all. With this already established my opponent has conceded the debate to me. With that I win the debate. For the sake of the debate, though, I will continue arguing for the sake of arguing.

My opponent completely dropped the argument in regards to the association as he is just simply grasping for straws. This has nothing to do with a criminal activity as thus this argument is invalid. Not to mention that with the ability to be unable to stop the crime then one is not guiltiy of it. This was also dropped.

My opponent brings up one personal account of a pornographic content. This point is invalid and I can careless. The reason is simply that this evidence is one case of this occurance and isn't a 100% thing that ALL bronies do it. It only shows that 1 Brony did it. This argument is a simple Appeal to Emotion and must be discarded.

The "No True Scottsman" does apply to my opponent's argument as he is discluding those who do not clop. This argument applies and his attempt to reverse it fails. As it fails as his own polls say people haven't clopped meaning that All Bronies DO NOT clop. My opponent has once again defeated his own argument.

Again a majority has clopped, but not everyone has clopped. Opponent makes another concession.

With that there is no other choice, but to vote Con in this debate.


Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by airmax1227 1 year ago
airmax1227
Vote by KryptoKroenen has been disqualified and removed.

Vote for Pro, 7 points, RFD: "Pro Wins"

Airmax1227
Debate.org Moerator
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: KryptoKroenen// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Pro. Reasons for voting decision: Pro wins...

[*Reason for removal*] Clear vote bomb. Not even an RFD, just a re-statement of the vote.
************************************************************************
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
RFD this is for getting back voting privleges

Pro has to actually prove that bronies.....clop....so weird. He did not do this without a shadow of the doubt. Pro actually changes his argument to majority of bronies clop. But this doesn't matter since the original argument was that all bronies clop. So I give Con the argument points
Posted by PhiteWower 1 year ago
PhiteWower
"whatever floats your boat" What a uncaring and hedonistic saying.
When you just repeat things like that you are but a puppet with a pull string.
The creator thinks, the parasite copies.

I do understand that in this instance it is used to deflect criticism.

Why in god's name would you put that you watch the Winx Club?
Also every single one of skillets songs sound exactly the same.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
No where in Pro's first point does he define all as a majority.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
If that's how you feel then m'kay.
Posted by KryptoKroenen 1 year ago
KryptoKroenen
Whatever floats your boat? Thank you for handing me another proof of why you are a fool, as anyone who subscribes to that uncaring, egalitarian propaganda phrase is the biggest kind of tool.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Whatever floats your boat man.
Posted by KryptoKroenen 1 year ago
KryptoKroenen
I love how Con tries to crown himself victorious, when he should really be suing for sexual assault, in light of the fact that Pro verbally raped him throughout the entire debate. I say debate only as a technical term, since Con, being a brony, didn't have the slightest possibility of being right in the first place...about anything for that matter. "All" and "most" are used as interchangeable terms, as Pro clarified in his original post. He stated the obvious fact that if the majority of a group engages in a particular activity (in this case, clopping), then the world "all" may be used when referring to the fandom in regards to this activity since the majority stands for the whole of the fandom, not the minority. Con ignorantly tries to assert that since a gross minority of non-cloppers exist, this somehow negates the fact that "all" bronies clop, even though Pro specifically stated that he defined "all" as a majority in his original post, not necessarily every single brony. Pro stomps.
Posted by KryptoKroenen 1 year ago
KryptoKroenen
Why would you even waste your time debating this topic? When you debate with someone, they assume a position of dignity and respect equal to your own, you engage with them on a footing of equality. Bronies are the lowest of the low, and are deserving of no such courtesy. They are autistic, mentally underdeveloped, and as the debate pans out, it seems that they are sexually deviant as well. To even attempt a debate with a brony is an insult to your dignity, a feminist would be worthy of more respect than this filth. Whatever the case, this "debate" as it were, or rather "verbal annihilation" has been entertaining. I suggest a bet: the loser of the debate must turn his real life photo over to the other party. That will give us something to laugh at after Pro stomps this joke of an argument.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by The-Voice-of-Truth 1 year ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
PhiteWowerlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed to distinguish between "all Bronies" and "most Bronies." There is a difference between a majority and a totality. Pro's information was skewed and from an unreliable source (reddit), and he cited it incorrectly anyway, as it is pointed out by Con in R2 (this is why Sources goes to Con). The "Not A True Scotsman" fallacy kinda sealed the deal for Pro's loss -- 1) it's a fallacy, and 2) just because you are a part of a group, it doesn't mean you do everything that group does. Thus, Args. to Con. This Vote is courtesy of the DDO Voter's Union.
Vote Placed by bballcrook21 1 year ago
bballcrook21
PhiteWowerlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro fails to explain why ALL is the same as MAJORITY. The burden of proof falls mainly on Pro, and he was not able to argue the topic effectively. Con found the "chink in the armor" in which he was able to press on to the statement itself, being that all bronies clop, which Con explained to be false. Pro was not able to use any evidence that explained the case, which he mentioned both in the debate topic as well as the opening round. The start of Pro's argument was a No true Scotsman, being that if the majority do something, all of them do this, and if you are part of the group and do not partake, then you are not a "true" member. Argument goes to Con for objective reasoning. I am tempted to award conduct to Con as well, but there weren't major extrapolations.
Vote Placed by Hayd 1 year ago
Hayd
PhiteWowerlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: In order for Pro to win, he has to prove that all bronies, clop. This means 100% without exception. Con brings No True Scottsman fallacy to show that this is not true, and that by Pro's own survey, not ALL bronies clop, thus Con negates the resolution and wins the debate. Pro tries to change definitions, and Con points out that you can't do that. In the end, Pro fails to realize that majority is not = to all, thus Con negates and wins.