The Instigator
holla1755
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Masterful
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

All Dreams Will Come True

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/20/2017 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 449 times Debate No: 103261
Debate Rounds (3)
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holla1755

Pro

It seems many things have suggested that all dreams will come true. By "dream," I mean an ambition; I do not mean a mental experience experienced during sleep. It seems the things include, but may not be limited to, music lyrics, music videos, speeches, quotes, guidance, advice, statements from significant figures, the extreme, sometimes invisible values that have already been found within and about the universe, and, if he exists, God.

Shirley Ann Jackson, Ph.D., President of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, a college I attended, said in an NPR interview on March 4, 2009 "The advice I give to young people is fundamentally to not let others put limits on who you think you can be, ... ."

Around the time President Trump was inaugurated on January 20, 2017, he said "Do not allow anyone to tell you that it cannot be done" (@WhiteHouse on Twitter, https://twitter.com..., posted Jan. 21, 2017), suggesting that any dream can come true.

It would be misleading, deceptive, and harmful to society if some of the aforementioned people or some of the aforementioned media sources were lying to us about all dreams coming true.

Also, amazing, great, wonderful, and extreme things are suggested by the extreme power of the universe. Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, with its concepts of time dilation and length contraction, quantum mechanics, with its double-slit experiment, and the observer effect in physics, suggest all dreams will, or at least can, come true. The estimated one septillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) or more stars in the universe (Article "HOW MANY STARS ARE THERE IN THE UNIVERSE?" by Fraser Cain, https://www.universetoday.com..., written Jun. 3, 2013, updated Oct. 16, 2016) suggest likewise. The large potential and power of black holes and other related concepts also suggest likewise. Many, possibly all stars, involve very large, extreme factors, such as very high temperature, very high density, very high size, very high emission of light, very high magnitude of brightness, and very high gravitational attraction. As Cain's article mentions, the universe may be infinite in size. The universe may extend on forever in all directions.

Things I can't even see are in the universe, including the gravitational force, the magnetic force, the strong force, the weak force, and electromagnetic signals and waves. Things in my everyday life, such as electricity, travel at very high, amazing speeds. The aforementioned things I can't see but that are in the universe, and the aforementioned things that travel at very high speeds, further suggest that very good things, such as all dreams coming true, will or at least can happen.

The music lyrics and videos of songs including Ace of Base's "Beautiful Life," ATC's "My Heart Beats Like a Drum (Dum Dum Dum)," 2 Brothers on the 4th Floor's "Dreams (Will Come Alive)," and Debbie Gibson's "Anything Is Possible" suggest all dreams will come true. The song and music lyrics of The Free's "Dream" suggest likewise.

All things, specific and unspecific, I cited here in my round 1 opening argument that suggest that all dreams will come true may not be all things that suggest that all dreams will come true. There may be some other things that suggest that all dreams will come true, and there may be many others.

All of the aforementioned evidence supports the claim that all dreams will come true.
Masterful

Con

I would dream about being a porn star, but I was told I'm not sexy enough and that my penis is too aggressive. My dream never came true. Neither did Martin Luther King's dream, as we seem to have segregated black communities.

For pro to win this, he needs to demon-straight that all dreams/ambitions *will* come true.
Debate Round No. 1
holla1755

Pro

Your dream about being a porn star never came true does not epistemically, with respect to me, imply it will not come true. It epistemically, with respect to me, is possible that your dream about being a porn star still will come true. It epistemically could be logically possible. Perhaps someday you will find a way to make your dream of being a porn star come true. Perhaps someday a technology will be found or developed that will make your dream come true. Perhaps there will be a way to make you look younger, to go back in time, or to set each and every circumstance of your dream true.

It's epistemically possible with respect to me that: Martin Luther King Jr.'s "dream" did come true or it was not actually his dream. I am not certain that King's dream was for there to be no segregated black communities at all. Only he would have known that with certainty. I am not certain of the existence of, and have neither personally visited nor examined, any truly segregated black communities. King could have been lying, just as Jackson, Trump, the other people, and the other media sources I previously mentioned could have been lying. I know of no evidence that definitively proves that King's dream did not come true.

I have no definitive demonstration that all dreams will in fact come true. However, I do have all the evidence I have so far presented in this debate. Furthermore, you haven't definitively demonstrated your side of the debate.
Masterful

Con

To say that all dreams will come true suggests that all dreams have come true to those that have passed away. What about those African children that are born to a life of misery and famine, they only dream of being able to have a supply of food and clean water. These dreams are rarely accomplished, they end up dying from AIDs.

Many Africans are obviously exempt from your "All Dreams Will Come True" statement, as they normally die before the age of 5. I think that makes your title racist, you're excluding Africans, to be non-racist you must be inclusive, deduct points for conduct from my opponent for being a racist pig.

Moving on. My opponent talks about how Martin Luther King's dream came true, it didn't, hence why we have groups like black live matter and the ABM. Let's not forget that the KKK is still around.

This links shows how many black neighbourhoods exist, which in turn proves Martin Luther King's dream never came true-
https://en.wikipedia.org...

My opponent is living in a state of permanent psychosis, where he thinks if he just believes hard enough then anything can happen!

My opponents so far, has not given any form of measurable evidence that dreams will come true. In fact my opponent admits to that.

"I have no definitive demonstration that all dreams will in fact come true. However, I do have all the evidence I have so far presented in this debate. Furthermore, you haven't definitively demonstrated your side of the debate."

My evidence that dreams won't always come true. Holy wanted to be a doctor, but ended up hanging herself, poor girl. (refer to source below)
http://www.mirror.co.uk...

Would bang.
Debate Round No. 2
holla1755

Pro

It's epistemically possible that for every person that has passed away, all his or her dreams have come true. It's epistemically possible that if it is not true that all a deceased person's "dreams" had come true, then those "dreams" were actually not his or her dreams. I do not have evidence that sufficiently demonstrates that some deceased person's dream did not come true. I cannot read people's minds, and I shouldn't just take them at their word for what their dreams are. Peer pressure, other social constraints, and other considerations can induce people to lie about what their dreams are. That's the sad truth. Consider all of the great, amazing things that may have happened in the world that are so relatively unmoral, those who experienced or witnessed those things do not want anybody else to know about those things because their disclosure could bring about instability in society with unsafe or undesired conditions. Consider what governments might keep secret from its people at places such as Area 51 and 52 or in its classified programs. Things are not always as they superficially seem.

It's also epistemically possible that not all people's dreams will come true, but that all my dreams will come true. That would be a sort of solipsistic view on the matter. It could be that I am the only real person, and only I have real dreams. It could be that everybody else's "dreams" are not real dreams and thus should not be considered as dreams. A good debate to have in the future would be whether all my dreams will come true.

You suggest that many Africans are counterexamples to my claim that all dreams will come true. That is a good argument, but I do not know what those Africans' dreams are with certainty. Maybe those Africans like their lives the way their lives are, and have dreams that we would not expect them to have.

You suggested that I claimed that Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream came true. I did not claim that his dream came true. I claimed the disjunction that: his "dream" came true or his "dream" was not his real dream. Many black neighborhoods may still exist, but I am uncertain that King's dream was for there to be no black neighborhoods whatsoever. Only King would have known whether that was his dream.

You suggest I'm living under the delusion that if I believe "hard enough" that all dreams will come true, then all dreams will come true. I tell you from my own personal knowledge and experience that your suggestion is false. My beliefs regarding whether all dreams will come true have been formed with the aid of all the arguments and evidence I have so far presented in this debate for my side of the debate.

It's possible that some people have dreams in which some other people's dreams will not come true. So, it's possible that not all dreams will come true. But that does not imply that not all dreams will come true.

Holly did not want to be a doctor; she wanted to hang herself. And her dream came true.

Statements (Reasons)
1. Holly wanted to hang herself. (Apparent from the article about Holly you cited)
2. If Holly hangs herself, then she dies. (Self-evident)
3. If Holly dies, then she will not be a doctor. (Self-evident)
4. Holly wanted to die. (Modus Ponens of Want using (1) and (2))
5. Holly wanted it to be true that "Holly will not be a doctor." (Modus Ponens of Want using (4) and (3))

Your side of the debate is strong and has some fairly strong evidence. All of the evidence you provided, taken together, seems fairly definitive. Nonetheless, you have not rebutted much of the evidence I provided. I feel I instigated this debate already knowing, considering, and presupposing much of the types of evidence you have provided. With that said, you have not yet shown, with a high enough level of certainty, that not all dreams will come true.

People will always do what they want to do. So, people will always make all their dreams come true. Therefore, all dreams will come true.
Masterful

Con

Your argument relies on not being able to prove whether what someone says is actually true, so if someone says "I have a dream of becoming a doctor" Then they could be lying and instead possibly dream of becoming a male gimp. For that argument to work, everyone in the world would have to be superficial about their intentions, say one thing but not really mean it. The world is not made up of 100% lairs, liars get caught relativity easily and if everyone on the planet was a chronic lair, it would be apparent through constantly having promises broken. There is no reason to doubt a simple claim made such as "I wish I was a doctor" This Lie wouldn't offer anything to the liar,it's a claim consistent with things we hear on a daily basis and because the claim is not exceptional we don't need exceptional evidence, so we can reasonably trust this claim. However, you would need exceptional evidence to disprove the claim.

You conclude with-
"People will always do what they want to do. So, people will always make all their dreams come true. Therefore, all dreams will come true."

What about pregnant rape victims who die during the rape before they're able to give birth? The fact that they're pregnant tells us they wanted to have a child, that was their ambition, however, against their will they were brutally raped and then murdered. Their dream of one day having a child can no longer be met because they're dead. Therefore it's very possible for dreams to be taken away from people through murder. This is simply undeniable.

I only have to demonstrate that at least one person has not met there ambition. My evidence is simply, a dead pregnant woman, oh and what about people with no arms? I'm certain they'd want arms, but I'm sure my opponent would say something like "We don't know what they're really thinking" So maybe they're ok with not being able to masturbate, despite the fact it's a primal urge that every respectable male indulges in? Maybe they've found ways around it like humping their dog?

My opponent has to demonstrate that every ambition will be met, regardless of how outlandish or unlikely. His evidence for this is not backed by a single source and consists of never being certain what peoples dreams actually are, even if they tell you.
Debate Round No. 3
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