The Instigator
jkyrocks123
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

All Illegal immigrants within the United States of America should get deported

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,115 times Debate No: 85655
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

jkyrocks123

Pro

First round is for acceptance only!
lannan13

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
jkyrocks123

Pro

Ok, so I would like to start saying that i believe that illegal immigrants that are on US soil need to be deported. They aren't called illegal immigrants for no reason. They broke a law and they need to be punished for it, and that punishment is being deported. These illegal immigrants that are hopping the border are also getting financial aid from the government, which is coming out of legal US citizens paycheck. Its not hard to come over the boarder legally and if you cant come over legally then obviously you shouldn't even be over in the first place.
lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for allowing me the pleasure of debating him today. In this debate I shall be defending against the resolution in that "all" illegal immigrants should be deported and will argue for amnesty for some. First we need to define all.

All- the whole, entire, total amount, quantity, or extent of [1]

Economic Factors

In this section I will address the economic factors of deportation and how it would destroy the US economy.



According to the American Immigration Consil, when it comes to taxes, illegal immigrants pay their fair share. In fact, they have paid a total of $11 billion in taxes. [2] Recent immigration reports have shown that just from last year, the illegal immigration has increased taxation in that year alon by over $2 billion. [3] We can see that the illegal immigration pay taxes and though $11 billion does not seem like much, it is still a huge profit for the federal government who's budget is in a world of hurt with the US debt clock over $19 trillion. The US can use all of the tax money they can.

A study by CATO institution found that my opponent's deportation plan would shrink economic growth in the US by $250 billion a year. [4] This is a sure way for the US to sink back into the recession. This would also hurt people at the bottom as for those without high school diplomas and low skilled laborers would have to fill the jobs formerly held by illegals and would drive the wages, as well as the dollar down. Now what does inflation and devaluing the dollar mean for the economy you may ask. Well, people would have to spend more money, becuase of the inflation and with the devaluing of the dollar we can see that if I spent a dollar on the US maket in the 1960s it would be a whole lot more then if I spent a dollar on the US market today. Economist Gagnon has shown that devaluing of the US dollar caused by the inflation can lead to a massive increase in import prices and since we get many of our things from abroad it will be even harder to get that new XBox video game you were wanting. He also shown that it harms nation's holding our debt, because the value is worthless and makes other nation's not want to purchase from us. The US in turn raises the interest rates, but we cannot afford to raise them any higher. [5]Why's this you may ask? If we observe the graph bellow the US interest rate on debt alone dwarfs most of the US federal budget. The US federal debt is getting so enourmously large that the US is getting to a breaking point in economic trade to were we have to pay off a massive amount of debt or commit financial suicide and raise the interest rates. If we observe the chart bellow we can see the different rates that a our interest rates will cost the US in the future. We have no choice, but cannot decend this slippery slope and further devaluing of the US dollar will harm the American economy by forcing us to lose jobs and rely more on imports causing the the nation to slide into the interest disadvantage furthering harming our nation's economy causing a world wide economic collapse greater than that of the Great Depression and rising the minimum wage will cause us to go flying off the fiscal cliff. [6]



Wages

The next key thing we have to look at here is the illegal immigrants jobs as well how they affect the everyday American. Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve showed that illegal immigrants, mainly from Latin America, had accounted for a sixth of the US economic growth from 2000-2007. [7] While in the US, illegal immigrants have been supporting their families back home while in the past year, illegal immgirants had sent home $63 billion. [8] This shows that they are not as "heartless" or "lazzy" as my opponent claims they are as it is impoosible to send that much home if you're living on welfare. The CBO reports that if we are to allow illegal immigrants work in the US, they will raise wages in the long hall, but deportation will lead to a decrease of our wages by 0.6%, which despite not sounding like much, is still a significant loss. [9]

Deportation

With this being my final point I will review the final costs of deportation. If we were to deport ALL illegal immigrants in the US our nation's GDP would drop by $1.6 TRILLION! [10] This is a huge effect on the economy that would sink the US into another Great Depression not to mention all fo the other impacts that I have brought up this round. There is no logical reason why the US should deport all illegal immigrants, but should instead grant amnesty to those here.

Sources
1. (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
2. (http://www.immigrationpolicy.org...)
3. (http://www.itep.org...)
4. (https://newrepublic.com...)
5. (http://www.ehow.com...)
6. (http://danielamerman.com...)
7. Alan Greenspan, PhD, former Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, stated in his Apr. 30, 2009 testimony before the US Senate Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees, and Border Security
8. (http://www.thedialogue.org...)
9. (http://blogs.wsj.com...)
10. (http://www.theatlantic.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
jkyrocks123

Pro

Welfare:
So I would like to start off with showing how much us legal citizens are paying all together to give these illegal immigrants welfare. When these illegal immigrants are coming into the US, they are either homeless or are given a home through welfare. So us Americans all together (through taxes) are paying 235 billion dollars to keep welfare up and running to help these illegal immigrants to live in the US. Here is a chart to prove it.

Figure 1: http://www.motherjones.com...

I would also like to show how a large majority of people enrolled in welfare, medical, etc are illegal immigrants.

Figure 2: http://cis.org...

In figure 2 we see that there are far more illegal immigrants enrolled in welfare than natives (US Citizens). So yes there are some illegal immigrants that are doing good in the US and paying taxes like a normal citizens. However we see that we spend more money through welfare alone to keep these illegal immigrants in the US. So when you get your paycheck that you worked so hard for and you see the tax deduction chances are that money went towards paying for some illegal immigrant's housing, food, phone, etc. So if we were to deport these illegal immigrants there would be less people enrolled in welfare, medical, etc so then you tax rate would decrease due to there being a lesser amount of people enrolled in welfare.

Jobs:

Disney right now is facing a lawsuit because around 250 US citizen tech workers were laid off and replaced with Illegal Immigrants and here is the article to prove it. http://www.nytimes.com...

I would also like to compare the amount of jobs that are taken away for US citizens to be replaced by illegal immigrants
http://www.fairus.org...

In this article we see that 1,887,695 jobs are taken in California and in Texas 1,296,670 jobs are taken. So these illegal immigrants are getting their jobs because they are taking them from natives (US Citizens).

Deportation:

My final point will be the cost of deportation in the article that I cited below we see that the total cost for deportation of ALL illegal immigrants is 285 billion dollars. It may seem like a big number, however if we instead of using our money to keep the illegal immigrants in the US (welfare, medical etc), used the money to get them out, it would easily fund all the costs of deportation.
https://cdn.americanprogress.org...

Sources:
1. http://cis.org...
2. http://www.nytimes.com...
3. http://www.fairus.org...
4. https://cdn.americanprogress.org...
lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for such a speedy response. In this round I shall move on to refute my opponent's case.

Contention 1: Welfare



Though my opponent's statement on how much the welfare budget is true, he is incorrect for the graph. As seen above, it has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, but just a general overview of welfare. My opponent's argument here is irrelivant.

Another argument my opponent makes is that the percentage of Illegals on SNAP, also known as food stamps. When we look at the claim that 43% of food stamps go to illegal immigrants we have to do some math here for some fact checking.

46.4 million on SNAP
43% claim on SNAP
This results in 20 million illegal immigrants on SNAP
Number of Illegal immigrants in US 11.2 million. [1]

That's a weird answer. How can that be true when that excedes the number of illegal immigrants that are actually in the US. This argument by my opponent is negated. Though even if we ignore the math for just a minute we can see that the Welfare and Public Housing aspects are actually occupied more by Americans than illegals. My opponent's own graph refutes his own evidence here.

Contention 2: Jobs

My opponent gives the stereotypical "They took are jobs" argument here. Though my question is, why is that important? Why does this matter? Illegal immigrants hold US jobs and my opponent has not brought up an impact here as to why this is a bad thing.

On the flip side, I extend my arguments across the board. In my last round I have shown that illegal immigrants holding US jobs raises long term US wages and if we deport them it causes a massive drop in wages in both short and long term. This already shows that we should continue the status quo we will have a better economy and the average American will be better off.

Contention 3: Deportation

Indeed taking $285 billion is a big cost, but that's just deportation by itself. You have to consider everything. I have shown that this will harm the US GDP by itself $1.6 trillion! That is a huge number and already in itself trumps any and all economic and expense arguments that my opponent makes as this drop will push the US into a Great Depression and is simply not worth the action.



Sources
1. (http://www.fns.usda.gov...)
Debate Round No. 3
jkyrocks123

Pro

First off I want to say this already, and were only half way through is going to be a pretty pumped up debate. I like it!

Welfare:

The first graph i showed was to get an Idea of how much goes into welfare in general. I wasn't yet focused on illegal immigrants will the second graph which showed how many illegal immigrants were enrolled. Also in my second graph I was not focused on housing, I was focused on welfare and medical the main things that are paid for my the government.

Jobs:

My point I was making about Illegal immigrants taking our jobs is the illegal immigrants are coming into the US then the government tries to get them a job. However with so little jobs yet so many people (US citizens and Illegal Immigrants combined) it makes it harder for us natives to get jobs and were also getting laid off from our current jobs to be replaced by these illegal immigrants. About 8.5 million jobs are encumbered by illegal immigrant workers[1]. So deporting these illegal immigrant will make sure there are jobs for US citizens.

Deportation:

Can you please show all the expenses going into deportation? In my claim I showed all the expenses, ill even show them again.
https://cdn.americanprogress.org...

Sources:
1. http://www.fairus.org...
lannan13

Con

I thank my opponenrt for his eggarness in this debate.

Contention 1: Welfare

My opponent is focusing on welfare, but when you observe the graph that my opponent has provided, it shows that between that the numbers are as follows: "Cash Welfare" Natives (meaning Americans, I presume) 10%, illegal immigrants 5%. His graph shows, under the welfare section, that illegal immigrants use less welfare than Americans. Thus this Contention is negated.

Contention 2: Jobs

My opponent claims that there is not enough jobs, but Obama has created 8.7 million jobs last year on top of the fact that unemployment is down to an all time low at 5%. [1] Compared to the past 10 years, unemployment has dropped significantly to the point where it has been nearly haved. [2] Not to mention that this is under average, so my question is, if illegal immigrants are taking American jobs then why is unemployment so low and under average? If we deport all illegal it may open jobs up, but it will devestate the economy as I have shown that the US's GDP would drop by over a trillion dollars.

Contention 3: Deportation

Gladly, My sources for wage loss: R2's sources number 7 and 9. Source for GDP loss R2 source 10.

I extend all other arguments across the board.



Sources
1. (http://money.cnn.com...)
2. (http://data.bls.gov...)
Debate Round No. 4
jkyrocks123

Pro

jkyrocks123 forfeited this round.
lannan13

Con

All points extended.

Thank you and please Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by geho89 1 year ago
geho89
How about the war on drugs, which also leads to the messed up problems in the private prison system. What efforts do you see of the US government fixing these problem? The war on drugs has been ineffective and has been an ongoing problem that has gotten worse. It was even the number one issue in the New Hampshire primary.

The US is one of the only nation to incarnate most of its people, with most as non-violent or drug use. Some are even innocent or awaiting trial. Here are some statistics to give you a perspective. The US makes about 5% if the world population, but incarnates 25% of the world prisons. About 1 in 100 adults are in prison and 1 in 28 children has a parent in prison. Don't you think this has an impact on a child's upbringing? Morally, don't you think it is better to invest in education rather than prisons?

Let me give you a perspective on why it is not in the best interest of Corporate America, crony capitalism, and government to fix this problem. Private prisons are contacted with the state to have a full capacity of 90%+ regardless of rate of crime and even 100% in states such as Arizona. If not, then taxpayers are paying for the empty beds as seen in Colorado.

Prisons can pay inmates less than minimum wage as low as 17 cents on the hour and don't expect them to have any family time at all. This of course gives an advantage over hire of non-prisoners. Prisoners manufacture many products such as clothing, furniture, and food. So imagine this, the more prisoners you have working at less than minimum slave wages producing goods, then the more money Corporations and the state will make. A nation should fix its problems, but they don't have to since they have no accountability. These are some of the issues I care about and this is where I disagree with you on your last comment.
Posted by geho89 1 year ago
geho89
I agree with you that a nation should focus more on domestic issues rather than foreign, but that is not the case anymore especially with globalization, the wars that have started, and how closely intermingled different nations are in terms of policies and economics. This means that a nation cannot truly be an isolationist and be sufficient on its own since nations are dependent on each other and WILL have an impact if we choose to not interact with others.

In reality though and in most cases, the government of the nation is not interested in fixing their own "problems". I will give an example in the next paragraph in terms of the US. A government problem is not equivalent to a person's problem, hence the people pouring in through the boarder. It makes sense to a person, if they have the opportunity, to migrate to a better location where they won't be persecuted right? In most cases, the people that do managed to get across are middle class since they have the resources to successfully get across, rather than poor uneducated people. In these people cases, they just meet their fate of death. Going across a boarder isn't exactly just simply walking across.

Imagine being an American born middle eastern person. They are being persecuted here in the US with individual attacks and their mosque being firebombed in their community. This of course creates a distrust of an "us" vs "them". If it gets as terrible as regular killings on these specific group of people, like nations such as Mexico or even Syria, then you can expect them to fight back or try to migrate out. Do you see any strong efforts of the US government fixing this problem?
Posted by jkyrocks123 1 year ago
jkyrocks123
Hello geho89, I dont usually respond to the comments however there is something that you said that I really wanted to bring to your mind. You said " I don't think you know how extensive the vetting process is for these people, especially when their lives are at stake in their home nation."

Our nation is already dealing with our own issues. We don't need to interfere with other nations problems. They need to fix their own nation and not just have their people pouring in through the boarder. They have their own problems so they need to fix it, not try to get the US involved.
Posted by geho89 1 year ago
geho89
Hello Pro, here are some of my critiques that I have. You made no arguments in the fact that it is not difficult to cross the border, but only made the assertion and concluded it with no evidence. I did not find this relevant to the debate. I don't think you know how extensive the vetting process is for these people, especially when their lives are at stake in their home nation.

You did not make any assertions that these undocumented immigrants are a security threat and made no mention of this point in your argument, but concluded that they could be with no evidence. I did not find this relevant to the debate. More often than not though, undocumented immigrants try not to break the law or cause a scene because this is a risk for deportation, which is not in their best interest.

In your debate though, you did mention illegal immigrants are called illegal for a reason and are breaking the law, which should result in deportation. I would argue that this is semantics and rather use the term, "undocumented immigrants". Simple activities such as jaywalking or going over the speed limit is unlawful, but people still do it all the time. No one seems to bat an eye and call out these people in their illegal activities as set forth by the government.

You did make a few arguments on the issue of welfare and jobs, but I believe Con was able to address your issues really well. I managed to find the graph that you used to show that undocumented immigrants use more welfare than natives as I was looking up information, and I am reluctant to jump on the wagon that there is a correlation between the amount of undocumented immigrants and natives on welfare vs amount in welfare received.

You used the Disneyland example in terms of undocumented immigrants taking jobs, but your reference does not support your claim. The term they used were "temporary immigrants", which are legal and there is no mention of undocumented immigrants. The only jobs they really take are low wage lab
Posted by JohnFx 1 year ago
JohnFx
What I find interesting about this debate is that both sides are using statistics about the number of illegal immigrants. If they are illegal, how do we have stats on how many there actually are? Are they registering with some government agency? That seems counter-intuitive given that the very reason they are illegal is that they DIDN'T file the necessary paperwork.
Posted by jkyrocks123 1 year ago
jkyrocks123
I am sooo sorry I was so busy and I totally forgot to post. Im just going to post my Final Conclusion.

Final Statement: Immigration is a marvelous thing, I love it, America loves it. We wouldn't even be here if it was not for immigration. However the US has established laws to control immigration to keep the American people safe. An illegal act is an illegal act, there is no way to get around it. Illegal immigrants are called "illegal" for a reason. It is not difficult to get a green card and come over the boarder and apply for citizenship. Sure, it may take a while for the immigration process to make you a legal, however green card gives you the ability to at least be in the US till the process is finished.

The US is currently dealing with terrorist threats, however there are people coming over the boarder and we don't even know who they are. Its a major security threat, if we are blind to who is coming over the boarder we have no idea if they are a terrorist or not and we don't even know if they are already in the US as an illegal immigrant.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
In the 2nd Paragraph, MW is suppose to be inflation.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I will respond today. I just had to build a case yesterday. I promise not to disappoint.
Posted by jkyrocks123 1 year ago
jkyrocks123
Thank you guys all for your comments. This is a topic that I am really interested in so i decided to debate someone about it.

Geho89, thank you especially for your comment! I will make sure that I add supporting evidence to my claims in the rounds ahead. Also if they person im debating right now does not respond in time I would love to debate you on this same topic.
Posted by Citizen_of_the_Web 1 year ago
Citizen_of_the_Web
The idea that all illegal immigrants should be deported is not feasible in practice.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Briannj17 1 year ago
Briannj17
jkyrocks123lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: First point for conduct. Since pro forfeited a round it is a breach of conduct. Next arguments. I base these as a round by round who wins each round. Second round con had the better arguments backed up by sources. Third round tied fourth round tied and fifth round pro forfeited. Therefore arguments sources and conduct goes to con.
Vote Placed by bballcrook21 1 year ago
bballcrook21
jkyrocks123lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.