The Instigator
kebomystic
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
n7
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

All Matter is Sentient.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
n7
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 502 times Debate No: 64135
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

kebomystic

Pro

All Matter is Sentient.

sen"tient (snshnt, -sh-nt)
adj.
1. Having sense perception; conscious:
"The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage" (T.E. Lawrence).
2. Experiencing sensation or feeling.
[Latin sentins, sentient-, present participle of sentre, to feel; see sent- in Indo-European roots.]

sentient"ly adv.
The American Heritage" Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright "2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

sentient
adj
1. having the power of sense perception or sensation; conscious
n
2. a sentient person or thing
[C17: from Latin sentiēns feeling, from sentīre to perceive]
G2;sentiently adv
Collins English Dictionary " Complete and Unabridged " HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

adj.
1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2. characterized by sensation and consciousness.
[1595"1605; < Latin sentient-, s. of sentiēns, present participle of sentīre to feel; see -ent]
senR42;tient"ly, adv.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, " 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Adj.1.sentient - endowed with feeling and unstructured consciousnesssentient - endowed with feeling and unstructured consciousness; "the living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage"- T.E.Lawrence
animate
insensate, insentient - devoid of feeling and consciousness and animation; "insentient (or insensate) stone"
2.sentient - consciously perceiving; "sentient of the intolerable load"; "a boy so sentient of his surroundings"- W.A.White
conscious - knowing and perceiving; having awareness of surroundings and sensations and thoughts; "remained conscious during the operation"; "conscious of his faults"; "became conscious that he was being followed"
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. " 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.
n7

Con

Thanks for the challenge! I accept. I will also provide a definition for matter.

Matter: "The substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed"
Debate Round No. 1
kebomystic

Pro

kebomystic forfeited this round.
n7

Con

That's unfortunate. Conduct point goes to me, but there are still enough rounds to make this a good debate.

The BOP is clearly on Pro because it seems as John Searle states that things such as thermostats don't have “enough structure even to be a remote candidate for consciousness” [1]. It's an absurd view prima facie and needs to have some powerful argument to be accepted.

I need not present an argument against Panpsychism, but I will. A huge problem with Panpsychism is that it is a poor account of consciousness. William James pointed out how our consciousness doesn't seem it can come into being from smaller individual consciousnesses.

"Take a sentence of a dozen words, and take twelve men and tell to each one word. Then stand the men in a row or jam them in a bunch, and let each think of his word as intently as he will; nowhere will there be a consciousness of the whole sentence … Where the elemental units are supposed to be feelings, the case is in no wise altered. Take a hundred of them, shuffle them and pack them as close together as you can (whatever that might mean); still each remains the same feeling it always was, shut in its own skin, windowless, ignorant of what the other feelings are and mean. There would be a hundred-and-first feeling there, if, when a group or series of such feeling were set up, a consciousness belonging to the group as such should emerge. And this 101st feeling would be a totally new fact; the 100 original feelings might, by a curious physical law, be a signal for its creation, when they came together; but they would have no substantial identity with it, nor it with them, and one could never deduce the one from the others, or (in any intelligible sense) say that they evolved it" [2]

The resolution is negated, since all matter being sentient cannot account for our sentience.

Sources

[1] Searle, J. (1997). “Consciousness and the Philosophers”, in The New York Review of Books, 44 (4): 43-44).
[2] James, Williams. (1895). "The Principles of Psychology" p.160
Debate Round No. 2
kebomystic

Pro

kebomystic forfeited this round.
n7

Con

Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
kebomystic

Pro

kebomystic forfeited this round.
n7

Con

What does a clock do when it wants more food?

It goes back four seconds.
Debate Round No. 4
kebomystic

Pro

kebomystic forfeited this round.
n7

Con

Conclusion

Pro gave a good case in favor of the resolution. However his arguments fail for these reasons.

*They boil down to irrelevant notions. Kebo's main argument was "kebomystic forfeited this round." while prima facie this supports Panpsychism, when we start digging we find it irrelevant to the debate.
* James' combination problem was dropped. Kebo's rebuttal against it was strangely similar to his main argument.
* My argument about the clock going back was dropped. Again Kebo made his argument about forfeiting.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by dylancatlow 2 years ago
dylancatlow
I don't think there's a hard distinction between our consciousness and the consciousness possessed by a rock. Consciousness is time, or the recursive application of syntactic rules to structure. Human consciousness is simply the kind of information-processing that goes on in the brain. Obviously, we are aware on a level of coherence that a rock isn't, but that doesn't mean a rock isn't conscious to the extent that it consistently "recognizes" itself.
Posted by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
What a waste.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
kebomysticn7Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Sargon 2 years ago
Sargon
kebomysticn7Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con provided a knockdown argument based on cutting-edge quotations from contemporary physicists and philosophers showing that the Boltzmann brain problem still applies to the many-words interpretation.
Vote Placed by Subutai 2 years ago
Subutai
kebomysticn7Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.