The Instigator
thedevil666
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Linkish1O2
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

All drugs should be legalized.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/25/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 757 times Debate No: 39437
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

thedevil666

Pro

I'm here to argue for the legalization of all drugs (marijuana, cocaine, crack, etc.)

1st round - acceptance
2nd and 3rd rounds - arguments
Linkish1O2

Con

Debate accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
thedevil666

Pro

Hello contender,

These are a few arguments:


Moral side

The government’s there to protect Life, Liberty, Property and that’s it. My body being my private property, it’s absolutely ridiculous and outraging that bureaucrats try to dictate what substances I should or should not make use of. Anyone who disagrees is disagreeing with the basic principles this country was founded on.

Hypocrisy issue

Some substances are just as harmful as alcohol and tobacco depending on the dose, even high calorie foods can be more addictive and cause much more harm to one’s health[1][2]. Anything the doctor prescribes you is also a drug.

Economic issue

Prohibiting it, makes it always more expensive due to the risk of producing and distributing. With an open competitive edge, it’d drop the prices, thus reducing theft and crimes related to money raising.

Legalizing it would make it harder for crime organizations to compete and they’d be out of business. When there’s a rival seller, they simply kill each other to eliminate competition, with a legalized and open market/competition, like in any other private sector, the only way to succeed is to improve quality, reduce prices, etc.

Not to mention it’d also create lots of jobs and new industries.

Legalizing would certainly leave more space in prisons to real and more serious crimes, as well as having more police force available. As seen here the percentage of drug arrests[3]


The following is a graph comparing how marijuana possession surpassed violent crime arrests.


Prohibition doesn’t stop those who want to use it anyway. See below.

Prohibition not only doesn’t work, but makes it worse

Prohibition always makes everything even more attractive, especially to young people.

If you know any teenager, the chances they’ve used or use drugs are high:

"Teenagers drugs: 60.6 percent of youths aged 12 to 17 were dependent on or abused drugs."

"In 2008, an estimated 22.2 million persons aged 12 or older were classified with substance dependence or abuse in the past year (8.9 percent of the population aged 12 or older). Of these, 3.1 million were classified with dependence on or abuse of both alcohol and illicit drugs, 3.9 million were dependent on or abused illicit drugs but not alcohol, and 15.2 million were dependent on or abused alcohol but not illicit drugs." [4]

Prohibition of alcohol in the U.S in 1920 had catastrophic results:

Not just didn’t prevent anybody form using it but also raised violence and empowered gangs, the number of crimes increased by 24% between 1920 and 1921, homicides by 12.7% [5].

PS: I haven’t even mentioned how much money we would save stopping this senseless "war on drugs".

References:

[1] http://www.examiner.com...

[2]http://www.thatsfit.com...

[3] http://www.motherjones.com...

[4] http://www.inspirationsyouth.com...

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Linkish1O2

Con

Well then I am glad that I now have a good debate, thank you for this topic.

First your argument.
Your moral side, of course you have a right to ruin your body as you please, but not only do drugs ruins your body, but doing certain drugs, for example "spice" can hurt those around you, which could result in murder, assault, harassment, all sorts of bad things, which this country does not stand for, and each of which is against a law.http://www.nydailynews.com...

Hypocrisy argument:
"Some substances are just as harmful as alcohol and tobacco" First I would like to point out that tobacco, is an extremely weak substance compared to illegal drugs, and tobacco is addictive, and has a limited amount of side effects, where a hit of weed, is more likely to render you incapable of driving a care, which brings us to alcohol, the affects of alcohol and some substances are the same, but if someone popped some spice , and killed everybody in a massive rage, I would pick rather pick alcohol, which is monitored at a social gathering.

economic issue:
Ill keep this one short and simple, if the drug is banned, don't make it, which means it wouldn't be sold, which in turn solves your economic prices.

As your argument stating that more people have been caught with a substance then those who committed violent crimes, I don't see that as a argument, it just seems like you ran out of ideas and popped that up as a quick last resort.

So as to my arguments.
I argue, that all illegal drugs, should stay illegal. First is that all substances a potentially harmful to you and those around you, but certain drugs, that make you feel "good" can get others killed around in you in extremely scary ways, and, I'm throwing my opinion out there now, find friends and family a better solution for a release then drugs.
Debate Round No. 2
thedevil666

Pro

Hello again!


Let’s get to it.



You said:


1)

“Your moral side, of course you have a right to ruin your body as you please, but not only do drugs ruins your body, but doing certain drugs, for example "spice" can hurt those around you, which could result in murder, assault, harassment, all sorts of bad things, which this country does not stand for, and each of which is against a law.”



You’ve probably seen the movie Minority Report, right? Do you remember what the “precogs” were? That’s right, they predicted crimes before they happen. To be considered a criminal, someone has to COMMIT a crime.

“According to the United States Department of Justice: Blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicides, […] from 1980 to 2008.”[1]

So next time you see a black person, call the police, they’re very likely to murder someone. Let’s just save us time and arrest them already, right? Why not? See how absurd your argument sound?


2)

“First I would like to point out that tobacco, is an extremely weak substance compared to illegal drugs, and tobacco is addictive, and has a limited amount of side effects”


You didn’t specify which illegal drug, so that’s like a blank statement. Marijuana for example, does much less harm to one’s health than tobacco[2][3].



Did you know that more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by HIV, illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined?



Or that if nobody smoked, one of every three cancer deaths in the United States would not happen?



Or that smoking causes an estimated 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women? [4]



That’s how weak tobacco is.


3)

“where a hit of weed, is more likely to render you incapable of driving a care”

Just another sort of “appeal to probability” fallacy.

4)

“which brings us to alcohol, the affects of alcohol and some substances are the same, but if someone popped some spice , and killed everybody in a massive rage, I would pick rather pick alcohol, which is monitored at a social gathering.”

Here you just exposed some personal opinions and made a relation between the drug “spice” and the crime of murder. And I’d just like to add that causes of murder are related to many factors, such as poverty, unemployment, lack of education, income inequality, psychological traits, etc. Murder is related to those factors just as much as they are to drugs. Whether legal or illegal.

5)

"economic issue:
Ill keep this one short and simple, if the drug is banned, don't make it, which means it wouldn't be sold, which in turn solves your economic prices."


What do you mean? Do you want to go over to the head of a drug cartel and say: “Hey, this substance you’re producing is not legal anymore, could you stop producing it, please?”

Are you serious?


As long as there is a demand for something, there will always be someone trying to meet that demand. If you make it illegal, it’ll only create more violence and bloodshed, but the market won’t stop.

6)

"As your argument stating that more people have been caught with a substance then those who committed violent crimes, I don't see that as a argument, it just seems like you ran out of ideas and popped that up as a quick last resort."


How do you not see that as an argument? If you have a problem with text interpretation, I’ll spell it out for you.

I said: “Legalizing would certainly leave more space in prisons to real and more serious crimes, as well as having more police force available. As seen here the percentage of drug arrests”

Then I showed the graphs to corroborate my previous statement. How’s that not an argument? Please explain.

7)

"So as to my arguments.
I argue, that all illegal drugs, should stay illegal. First is that all substances a potentially harmful to you and those around you, but certain drugs, that make you feel "good" can get others killed around in you in extremely scary ways, and, I'm throwing my opinion out there now, find friends and family a better solution for a release then drugs."



This is not an ad hominem attack, but your arguments against the legalization were all pretty predictable and lousy. Not to mention you didn’t even reply to the topic “Prohibition not only doesn’t work, but makes it worse”. But anyway, this was fun.


Good luck!


References:

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.drugfree.org...
[3] http://scienceblogs.com...
[4]
http://www.cdc.gov...

Linkish1O2

Con

Well it would seem you criticise me for my petty argument, so, the time has come to bring out some bigger facts.

1. JOBS
With all drugs legalized, we as a nation, or a world, would have many problems dealing with those who have indeed become an addict to a few harmful and highly addictive drugs, like meth. Meth, like all other drugs, ruins your body, like you said, its your choice and you don't care if you ruin your body, and make this country look like a bunch of tweaked out weaklings who cant defend themselves to some sort of attack, which will be explained later, but what would you do if you find out that the one guy that works for you has been doing meth, brand new at it, has a mental breakdown. First he would lose his job, then of course, other jobs would look at him, and other drug addicts, and stay far away, they are a risk to machines, to others, to themselves, company's don't want to hold your hand through your "tough times" just because drugs are now legal. If you think to yourself "well then they don't do drugs at a work environment" think again, once your addicted to something, you cant stop, not even for work, hence why you can smoke a cigarette during work, sometimes. If you then think, well those who have alcohol problems still go through jobs, your wrong again, ever heard of AA, it means that someone has to get over their harmful drinking addiction and get picked back up on their feet. Now if your trying to think, that not all illegal drugs are addictive, think again, in fact ALL illegal drugs are made to be addictive for the sales pitch, and you cant take the additive out of the drug, because it was made that way for that one reason alone, yes weed is a highly addictive drug, 1 in 6 people who start smoking weed, become addicted to the drug, 25 of 50 long term smokers become dependent on the drug, and it interferes with someone's life, lost jobs, unwanted children, poverty, mental breakdowns, and eventually suicide, all because they cant make enough money to buy the drug, because they lost their job, doing the drug, and spent the rest of their money getting the drug.
http://www.methproject.org...
http://www.drugabuse.gov...
2 Government.
If all drugs where legal, the our very own president, good or bad he may be, could take a hit of heroin, sniff some cocaine, smoke a joint, and yet again become addicted, even congress, how would you like it if your own government was made up of a bunch of drug addicts making the wrong choices, and screwing this country and the people in it, making this country prone to high attacks, all illegal drugs, have some ingredient that messes up the chemical thinking process in your brain, for example Embalming high. or the more urban term "amp" makes you allot more violent and takes your brain and puts into an all time courage machine, making people do stupid things, so if the president hated someone on congress, went and did some amp, who would stop him from killing that congressman, or lets take a further scenario, the president hates the Jewish religion, and wants to expand his country (sound familiar ), turning us into a dictatorship, killing those who get in his way, all because he was allowed to do all drugs, that could possibly make him violent. Now some should argue, well then the government shouldn't do drugs, well let me tell you, those who work in the government can smoke and drink, so why would you make doing all drugs legal and forbid the government from doing those drugs?
http://voices.yahoo.com...
3. Crime
From your previous arguments, you state that our crime rate would go down, yet in fact it would be quite the opposite, look at all drugs, the each have a unique way of hurting you, and others, plus your addiction, let me do a quick scenario. Someone is addicted to cocaine, it affects their job, and they end up losing their job, now the need to go to rehab, which they refuse to go, and spend ALL their money for more cocaine, then they run out of cocaine, looks like they have no more money, so they could kill, mug, steal, and might be able to attempt a heist (because they may have played a game that said it was possible) guess what they fail, and end up in jail with bigger charges. now look at it in a global scale, not only does this happen to one person, but it happens to one hundred thousand people, it would be chaos.
4. Our own lives
All drugs, even tobacco, shortens our lives, and when a life is shortened, that's when fear plays in, when fear plays in, that's when drugs come in, and that causes a vicious cycle, that makes our life's shortened by a hundredfold, instead of living to see 80, drugs become legal and one year you hope to see 50, then it could drop to 35, who knows, but when drugs play a part its like we want to become extinct ourselves.

Well it would seem that drugs shall remain illegal, and to me that's a good thing!

Documentaries:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
@thedevil666 I will take a look, that sounds intriguing. And DDO isn't letting me vote, I haven't yet completed any debates.
Posted by thedevil666 3 years ago
thedevil666
@Linkish1O2 it seemed so :)
Posted by thedevil666 3 years ago
thedevil666
@ironmaiden Exactly. If you or anybody here is interested I recommend this short Milton Friedman's video, where he synthesizes the thought that the government actually helps protect the drug monopoly, among other things.
Posted by Linkish1O2 3 years ago
Linkish1O2
It would seem that my previous argument I ran out of some time.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
Thank you. And I am excited to see that someone has all the same arguments to back up our opinion as I do. I don't think I know anyone besides my dad who understands the pure logic. For example, the fact that prisons would be less crowded. Overcrowding has become a huge problem, yet many prisoners did nothing to affect anyone else. Very few people understand the basic facts...
Posted by thedevil666 3 years ago
thedevil666
@ironmaiden appreciate your comment! And you're right, whatever we choose to do with our body is nobody's business.
Posted by ironmaiden 3 years ago
ironmaiden
thedevil666, that was beautiful. I ate 17 Oreos in less than 2 hours a week ago, but I have never done any drug in my life. So junk food is almost just as bad. And I will never do drugs. However, I should have the right to fvck up my body as much as I want to.
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