The Instigator
GeoLaureate8
Con (against)
Winning
53 Points
The Contender
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points

All religions and philosophies stem from either Christianity or Satanism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
GeoLaureate8
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/29/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,621 times Debate No: 8151
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (94)
Votes (10)

 

GeoLaureate8

Con

I assert that other religions and spiritual paths exist besides Christianity and Satanism. I also assert that other religions and atheists alike DO NOT borrow from Christianity and Satanism.

I will now let my opponent defend his position.

.
GodSands

Pro

I have wanted to do this debate for a while. So I thank you GeoLaureate8 for making this debate. I hope this will be a very interesting discussion, and more so I hope you learn from this, and I as well.

I will begin by explaining my stance. Considering that everything which exists has two sides, a negative and a positive side. It is either good or evil, for example. War is more evil than it is good, so the arrow points more towards war being negative and evil than the positive and good side.

However there is a middle view where one can say, "War is good, only when a battle is against evil." This being the atheist view. The atheist believes that there is no objective truth since the truth would be factual and ultimate. God is objective due to there needing to be ultimate truth, despite what you think God is like, God is that ultimate truth. Consider that without objective truth, nothing can exist.

Before I go any further I would like to state that atheism is a religion, since there is no relationship in this particular faith of there being no such thing as a God. Religion is defined as a aim to please a higher being by doing good deeds. Atheists aim to please God by searching for a God, searching to please God in their own way. Since religion is not a relationship but a motive to please higher beings or which just consists of faith, like evolution, atheism is therefore a religion. (Evolution is based on science, this is called micro evolution where one kind of creature can vary and adapt only within it's own original kind, however atheists carry this fact of biology out and use faith to create their ideal scenario to do as they please).

I will now speak on the beliefs which Satanist's and Christians believe in. I will start with Satanism. Please note that these beliefs can still exist without there being anyone to believe in them. The beliefs them selves exist.

Satanism consists of there being no such thing as a God or a evil entity such as Satan (this links in with there being no after life since God is the source for eternal life). They believe that science does not exist but instead magic, for instance, if you rub your hands together it creates heat, due to the friction caused by molecules moving fast. In terms of magic you could say that one event takes place after another continuously for no explainable reason. I will talk more on this based to the fact that the Big Bang and all physical matter in the universe arose from nothing, this also implies to evolution. Considering that luck in Hebrew means 'good Lucifa' you can see why (if a believer in Satanism) things just happen. And finally Satanist's do not approach morality to any extent, therefore consider evolution as a fact.

There is a reason why Satanist's do not believe in God or Satan, the reason being is because Satanism is a very indulgent, selfish and vain faith. In fact I am not sure if the word 'faith' is at all necessary since they are self centred, in that they worship them selves. To do such a thing needs no faith. When a Satanist's says, "Hail Satan." They mean, "Hail me."

I will now list the beliefs which atheism uses from Satanism.

Evolution (by attempting to use science to prove it).
Big Bang (by attempting to use evolution to prove it).
No God, or a godless foe like Satan (by attempting to use the Big Bang to prove there is no need for God, therefore reasoning to them selves that there is no God).

I will now point out the beliefs which forms Christianity.

Christianity is loyal to science, Christians do not use science in the dark but rather faith, and therefore science is loyal to Christians. Christians believe in a God which created the universe out of nothing (the difference from something physical creating something from nothing to something spiritual creating something from nothing is that spirits are ever lasting. Where as physical matter is not, so you can never trace the event back to know when God made the universe out side of time) Christians also believe in a after life (linked in with the belief in God). Christians believe in moral and immoral law to all extents. For an example, if you are slightly drunk, it is the same as being very drunk, since God sees straight through to the heart/if you save a life that is as good as saving ten life's, since God sees right through to the heart. There is no limit to anything good or evil. Lastly Christianity insists on objective truth.

There is a reason why Christians use faith in the dark, and that is because Jesus is the light of the world. Science does not answer the question, of where the universe came from since science is used only within the boundaries of physics thus the universe was the beginning of physical matter.

I will now mention the beliefs which atheism 'robs' from Christianity.

Science (science has no boundaries/limits inside the universe, however it has one large boundary, that being it can not explain where it science it's self came from).
Morality and immorality (morality and immorality has no boundaries/limits).
Knowable truth which leads to an eternal being (through science atheists attempt to find truth, which can only be eternal).

Morality and immorality having no boundaries/limits:
Now this seems confusing, so I will tidy it up somewhat. Picture a man robbing a bank while drunk and on drugs, nevertheless at the same time he manages to murder a number of bank staff. This is what I mean by immorality and morality having no limits, while the atheist would suggest only the murders and the robbery was the immoral part. Since they separate what they think in not immoral (within the law of the land) to what is immoral (outside the law of the land). As if they pick a choose what is immoral or not, based on what they have done, will do or are doing in the present.

In conclusion atheism takes from both Christian and Satanic beliefs, however it is because there is both Satanism and Christianity, or any other faith that consists and demands there to be a God, due to the only logical solution that the universe needed a creator. Since it had a beginning, hence this statement making undeniable sense, "Nothing begins to exist without a cause."

Now the reason why Christianity is used rather than any other faith is because it deals with the problem with sin. Jesus as we all know, believe it or not, died on the cross so that our own conscious actions could be cut departed from our lives. No other spiritual path, no religion deals with this problem. This is why Christianity is unique.

Final conclusion: Evolution, the Big Bang, no such thing as a eternal God, morality and immorality, science and truth which is not eternal wraps up the atheistic view point.

I will point out the problems with this. Starting with evolution, like I have said evolution is based on science, but it does not suggest anything other than micro evolution as far as facts go, the rest (macro evolution) is assumed to a point where it fits their perfect convenience. The Big Bang solves nothing since there is always the question of what created that. I don't understand why atheists can not see past this, and conclude that physical matter can not just appear without an eternal power. Because they do not understand that, they say there is no God. Because they are effected by moral and immoral acts they imply them to reality. Science can not solve where the universe came from, and therefore science can not solve where it self came from. There is truth, by saying the universe existing is the truth is illogical since that does not solve anything, by saying science will find the answer is the truth is not eternal since the universe is not eternal. God didn't use science to create.

God seems to be the eternal truth, if truth was not eternal then nothing could exist. Indition Christianity and Satanism are the only two ways to walk in truth, everything else is a mix of the two.
Debate Round No. 1
GeoLaureate8

Con

I'd like to thank GodSands for accepting this debate and for the prompt response.

Let me point out however, that my opponent went a bit off topic throughout some parts of his argument, so not everything he has put forth needs to be addressed.

=============
Atheism and Satanism
=============

The following is my opponents list of 'beliefs' atheism takes from Satanism:

>>Evolution (by attempting to use science to prove it)

This is false. The theory of evolution cannot be attributed to Satanism. It is a scientific theory originating from a scientist who had nothing to do with Satanism. Also, nowhere in the tenets of Satanism or the Satanic Bible will you find anything about evolution; and even it if it were, the theory of evolution predates the form of Satanism you are referring to (LeVeyan, which ironically borrows from atheism, not the other way around.)

>>Big Bang (by attempting to use evolution to prove it)

Again, this is false. The Big Bang theory cannot be attributed to Satanism nor is it a tenet or belief in Satanic teachings. You also assert that evolution is used to prove the Big Bang which is an entirely absurd notion. They have nothing to do with eachother, not to mention the fact that the theory of evolution would not even apply until after the Big Bang happened.

>>No God, or a godless foe like Satan (by attempting to use the Big Bang to prove there is no need for God, therefore reasoning to them selves that there is no God)

The assertion that there is no God is exactly what atheism is, and any Satanic sect that doesn't believe in God is merely borrowing from atheism, not the other way around. Another point is that you are completely ignoring all the theistic Satanist sects like the Temple of Set, Church of Azazel, Joy of Satan, Gnostic Luciferianism, etc. which all believe Satan is God or they believe in multiple gods. These Satanic sects actually have much older roots than the form of Satanism you are referring to and they are completely incompatible with atheism. You only focus on the popular version of Satanism which was formed recently in the 1960s that admittedly borrows from atheistic philosophers.

As you can see, I have just demonstrated that atheism does not borrow from Satanism, and to quite the contrary, the form of Satanism he is referring to actually admittedly borrows from atheism. His premise was incredibly flawed because not only was he unable to show how atheism borrows from Satanism, he wasn't even able to describe the tenets of Satanism correctly and gave them false attributes. Also, the majority of the Satanic sects actually believe in god or many gods which is completely contradictory to my opponents thesis.

==============
Atheism and Christianity
==============

The following is my opponents list of 'beliefs' that atheism takes from Christianity:

>>Science (science has no boundaries/limits inside the universe, however it has one large boundary, that being it can not explain where it science it's self came from)

Science is in no way rooted nor associated with Christianity, and if anything, completely contradictory to it. It is an absurd notion that science is a part of Christian theology.

>>Morality and immorality (morality and immorality has no boundaries/limits)

Morality and immorality did not come from Christianity. The very fact that many religions existed before Christianity with their own set of morals disproves this. Also, atheism is a position that doesn't even deal with morals. Most of the morals that atheists have come from philosophy.

>>Knowable truth which leads to an eternal being (through science atheists attempt to find truth, which can only be eternal)

This doesn't even make sense. You're claiming that atheism borrows "knowable truth" from Christianity, but you're making several false assumptions. That truth is inherent in Christianity and Christianity only, and that these Christian truths are borrowed by atheists. You try to tie it together by saying that since the Christian truth leads to eternal being, atheists are doing the same thing by finding truth, which by chance happens to be eternal. This is an attempt at making a connection where no link is present. Christians seek to be eternal; atheists seek truth, which happens to be eternal. Becoming eternal, and learning eternal truths are not the same thing. Therefore atheism does not borrow this specific concept, nor is the ultimate truth anywhere to be found in Christianity, let alone being an inherent trait.

*******

I will now address some of my opponents other points.

>>Atheism is a religion... Atheists aim to please God by searching for a God, searching to please God in their own way. Since religion is not a relationship but a motive to please higher beings or which just consists of faith, like evolution, atheism is therefore a religion.<<

Everything stated here is a complete fallacy. Atheists don't try to please God because they don't believe in God. Atheists don't search for God and find the existence of a such a self-contradictory being impossible, thus providing no reason to search for God. Religion is not just a motive to please higher beings, and even if it were, atheism most certainly would not qualify as one.

>>[Satanists] believe that science does not exist but instead magic, for instance, if you rub your hands together it creates heat, due to the friction caused by molecules moving fast. In terms of magic you could say that one event takes place after another continuously for no explainable reason. I will talk more on this based to the fact that the Big Bang and all physical matter in the universe arose from nothing, this also implies to evolution. Considering that luck in Hebrew means 'good Lucifa' you can see why (if a believer in Satanism) things just happen.<<

This is a complete and utter misrepresentation of all forms of Satanism, and really doesn't even make sense.

>>Satanist's do not approach morality to any extent, therefore consider evolution as a fact.<<

This is completely false and illogical. First of all, evolution has nothing to do with morals. Secondly, the Satanic Bible has more good morals than the Holy Bible. The Satanic Bible is centered around several great philosophers which deal with morality extensively. As a matter of fact, the Satanic Bible has ZERO! cruel and violent passages, as opposed to the Holy Bible's 907 cruel and violent passages. [1]

>>Christianity is loyal to science<<

Christianity is most definitely not loyal to science. Science is Christianity's biggest threat. The Bible defies science (no, I'm not talking about 'demonic' evolution; I mean real science) approximately 340 times. [2]

*******

In conclusion, my opponent only addressed atheism and failed to explain how other religions borrowed from Christianity and Satanism. If he were to study ancient religions, he would soon find out that both Christianity and Satanism borrow completely from ancient pagan religions and astrotheology. [3] [4] Christianity is not the oldest religion, and because of this fact, it is impossible for the ancient religions to have borrowed from Christianity. The following religions predate Christianity: Sumerian, Egyptian, Babylonian, Druidism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confusianism, Taoism, Judaism, Sikhism, Jainism, Shintoism, and various other pagan religions. Therefore, it is impossible for these religions (many of which have their own creation myth; so calling Christianity the first religion because of Genesis is invalid) to have borrowed from or be based on Christianity.

[1] http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com...
[2] http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...
[3] http://www.pocm.info...
[4] http://www.jordanmaxwell.com...
GodSands

Pro

Thank you, I would have said, "Thought out response." But the truth is, it isn't, sorry.

There are things you have not understood here, I will point out the first one. I said that, we attempt to use (in general) science to prove evolution. You then disagreed and said this is false. Satanism has the right to conclude evolution as fact, since they do not believe in science but magic. Like evolutionists say, "Anything can happen if given time." Well what about this here, "All things can be done through magic." Two asumptions, however if you believe that time can produce anything, then time is magic, just stretched out.

The scientific theory is not science but a mix of both Satanism and Christianity, It goes like this, Christianity implies that there is adaptation in creatures, but no formation change in creatures. Satanism takes over when the atheist who believes in evolution applauds at the notion of time changing all things to good. When in reality all things decompose and time helps that happen. So the Satanic belief in magic replaces time to change creature from one kind to another kind of creature.

Satanism has a lot to do with evolution, the reason why God flooded to world was to kill the Nephilim which means, 'fallen ones'. The Nephilim had sexual relations with the daughters of man. The daughters of man gave birth to half Nephilim and half human children. The reason why was to stop Jesus from being born, and if the Nephilim got their own way, no one of the biblical men of God like David would have been born. So if evolution is true Jesus would had not existed.

Like Christ bridged the gap between us and God by dying on the cross for our sins, macro evolution has bridged the gap between us and sin. Sin leads to death, all sin does, so really macro evolution has bridged the gap between us and death. In the Bible it recalls death to the physical body as rest to the spirit.

The Big Bang - If the Big Bang never happened then evolution never did either. So by assuming that the earth is 4.6 billion years old, scientists suggest the universe being much older, 13.4 billion years old.

Big Bang in this case, meaning anything physical that does not show what cause was.

Now let me remaind you again, Satanists belief in magic, and Christians believe in science, not that it can be stretched out if its comfort zone but to discover the universe how God made it. Magic plus science equals long time periods, the Big Bang and unexplained reasons on where just things come from. Remeber that Satanists have all rights to believe in the Big Bang since they believe in magical events, where as people who believe in science do not. Atheists do not believe in magic, but their theories require magic. So how can you differ between magic being one thing and the Big Bang being another?

Again, you are mixed up, atheists believe in science, Satanists do not, so they have rights to believe there is no God, since the universe created it's self through magic. Where as we know scientificlly that things do not create them selves from nothing. Atheists have no reason to believe there is no God, in fact because they believe there is no God they go against the laws of science. Every time you mention atheists do not believe in God etc etc, you are actually forgetting that they borrow the beliefs off of Satanists, for reason I have already given.

As I have said, when Santanists say, "Hail Satan." They mean, "Hail me." If Satan is their own God, then they are their own God. You can see this for your self at the official Satanism web site. Like there are many types of Christians, only one is correct in that it follows and understands what Jesus really ment, there are many types of Satanists, only one again is correct. And I think because all Satanists are human and not devils, it would be almost impossible to live a life in such a scale I am talking about. Satanists have morals yet they like not to believe they have, they are poliet and well behaved, however if someone goes against them, they will not allow mercey. Satan him self does not want you to know of his existence, and he is the prince if Darkness, father of lies. Only Satan can be truely evil. I am really discribing what Satan wants of people. Satanists want to do what Satan wants, atheists don't care since they have no belief in him, which Satan wants, and Christains do not want to do what Satan wants, but what God wants.

Through this I have destroyed the argument over whether or not my sort of Satanism is vaild to exist. This sort of Satanism is Satans. And despite whether you believe Satan exists the beliefs still can. Because I can mention them. And the same goes for Christains. Atheists want to know God, but they want to know God by going Satans way, but Satan does not want to know God. This lead the atheists in the middle, still the same results as I have told you. For example, atheists believe in morality and immorality but they also believe in no God. Like wise to science and magic, meaning evolution.

So in a sense you were right, however you borrow off of Satan, the father of lies and the prince of Darkness. God, knows that science and evolution do not go together, God is moraily righteous, God knows of Him self, of course. Christians know God personally, Christians do not believe in magic but science, Christians know what is good and what is evil righteously.

So where does this leave the atheist? Using both of what Christians and Satanists belief in. Since (and it is really obvious) atheist do not believe in magic but science, however their ideas require magic (as I already said).

Atheists believe in morality and immorality, but only to certain extents. Example, Christians say, "Stealing something worthless, is as evil as stealing something costly, since all physical matter means the same to God." Well it would be if God can create what He wants. Atheists say, "Stealing something that effects people is wrong, stealing something that doesn't, is fine." The atheist version of stealing however has a major flaw, that being, how would you know what means something to someone or not? So this is why you should never steal anything big or small, costly or worthless. Same goes for all moral and immoral actions.

Atheists believe in a knowable truth, but their methods of finding the truth is incorrect. Because atheists do not believe in a God, but only physical matter part taking in all existence, truth will never arise since all physical matter produces the same signs and meanings. That being, "Physical matter was made." Thus atheists will only go around and around in circles. Tell me, why would the Big Bang mean anything more than a drawing of the Big Bang on a sheet of paper, if all there is, is physical matter and no God? So atheists want to know the truth yet, it will never arise through their methods. Only through Jesus will you find truth. Only through believe in God first will you find truth. For Satanists this is fine because they have a right to believe there is no truth, because magic created the universe with no explanation whatsoever. Isn't that the point of magic?

The Bible is full of philosophy, so you are correct by saying morality came form philosophy, but God also inspirard men like Moses to write the Bible. Judaism began when God's promise to Abraham bless him to be father of many nations. In Genesis 17:4. Before then God was with Enosh and Adam and Eve, God was with Noah etc before the Jewish faith began.

No, I am not saying atheism is borrowing knowable truth from Christians because atheist do not know truth. I am saying that atheism takes the notion that there is knowable truth, but they attempt to find it by using science only.

This quote of yours got at me, "Christians seek to be eternal; atheists seek truth..." No you have it all wrong, the truth can only be eternal unless nothing can exist.

This shows how much you know about truth.
Debate Round No. 2
GeoLaureate8

Con

It appears my opponent wants to ignore the resolution: "All religions and philosophies stem from either Christianity or Satanism."

I understand that this is a large burden for my opponent, but he hasn't even tried. He is only arguing that atheism borrows from Christianity and Satanism, and still failed at that. He didn't even attempt to explain how all the ancient religions that predate Christianity could have even possibly borrowed from Christianity or Satanism, though I understand why. That's because it is absolutely impossible (unless time travel is involved) for any religion that predates Christianity to have possibly borrowed anything from a religion that hasn't come into existence yet. Unless my opponent can prove otherwise, he has ultimately failed to fulfill his burden.

I would also like to point out that my opponent has decided to make up his own version of Satanism which no one believes in. He is completely disregarding all of the real Satanic sects that actually have followers. He is using his own Christian view to identify what "true" Satanism is, and to make it sound objective, he suggests that his form of Satanism is straight from Satan himself. Obviously this is a baseless claim with no evidence whatsoever. He cannot prove that atheism borrows from a religion that doesn't even exist. He claims that the beliefs themselves exist, though this does not make an argument. I can make up my own religion that no one believes in, give it similar attributes to Christianity, and then claim that Christianity borrows from this make-believe religion because it has similar beliefs. This is essentially, my opponents entire argument.

*****************************************************

Now to address my opponent's arguments:

>>There are things you have not understood here, I will point out the first one. I said that, we attempt to use (in general) science to prove evolution. You then disagreed and said this is false.<<

That is simply not true. What I did disagree with was that you listed evolution as a belief in Satanic doctrine. I did not object to the fact that science is used to prove evolution.

>>So if evolution is true Jesus would had not existed.<<

So you are admitting Jesus never existed. Evolution is simply change over time, and it is proven that change over time does occur. Also, it makes absolutely no sense why Jesus could not have existed if evolution were true. He would have been the product of evolution, just like the rest of us.

>>The Big Bang - If the Big Bang never happened then evolution never did either.<<

How does that make sense? It doesn't require a Big Bang for evolution to occur. It requires the existence of a Universe for evolution to occur, whether it was made by God or not. THE BIG BANG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EVOLUTION!

>>Now let me remaind you again, Satanists belief in magic, and Christians believe in science<<

That is absurd. Christians believe in Yahweh and Jesus who DEFIED science many times. Walking on water, separating "dark from the light," feeding thousands with a loaf of bread, turning water into wine, or any miracle for that matter. You say Satanists believe in magic, but how is magic any different than a miracle? A miracle is unscientific, and if it were, it wouldn't be a miracle. So Christians are the ones who believe in magic, but disquise it as miracles. That is not science, so you should never again claim Christians believe in science.

>>Again, you are mixed up, atheists believe in science, Satanists do not, so they have rights to believe there is no God, since the universe created it's self through magic.<<

I'm the one who is mixed up? You are the one claiming atheists try to please God. Atheists do not believe in God, so there is no way they could possibly try to please God. You said atheists believe in science and Satanists do not, yet you assign scientific theories as the central beliefs of Satanists? How does that make sense?

>>Atheists have no reason to believe there is no God<<

Actually they have a very good reason. They've never seen him and have found no evidence.

>>Every time you mention atheists do not believe in God etc etc, you are actually forgetting that they borrow the beliefs off of Satanists, for reason I have already given.<<

You said Satanists believe that they themselves are gods. You then claim that atheists take this belief from Satanists. Calling yourself a god and believing in an omnipotent god are completely different things. First of all, atheists don't call themselves gods. Second of all, if they did, they still don't believe in an omnipotent higher being.

>>Like there are many types of Christians, only one is correct in that it follows and understands what Jesus really ment, there are many types of Satanists, only one again is correct.<<

Or maybe they are all deluded and none of them are correct. Also, how can your non-existent form of Satanism be the only correct type of Satanism. It doesn't exist, therefore it cannot be correct.

>>Satanists have morals yet they like not to believe they have, they are poliet and well behaved, however if someone goes against them, they will not allow mercey.<<

The problem is, the Satanists that you are referring to (the existent ones) don't bear any resemblance to the descriptions you've given them. The Satanic Bible teaches nothing about Big Bangs or evolution.

>>Through this I have destroyed the argument over whether or not my sort of Satanism is vaild to exist. This sort of Satanism is Satans. And despite whether you believe Satan exists the beliefs still can. Because I can mention them.<<

Through this I have destroyed the argument over whether or not my sort of Unicornism is valid to exist. This sort of Unicornism is Unicorn Gods. And despite whether you believe Unicorn God exists the beliefs still can. Because I can mention them.

>>So in a sense you were right, however you borrow off of Satan, the father of lies and the prince of Darkness.<<

No, I do not. I am NOT an atheist nor do I borrow off of Satanism or Christianity.

>>Christians do not believe in magic but science<<

Again, Christians believe in miracles which is magic, not science. You've got it backwards.

>>So where does this leave the atheist? Using both of what Christians and Satanists belief in.<<

This leaves the atheist having absolutely nothing to do with Christianity or Satanism. The atheist merely lacks the belief in a god. You're Christian point of view is unjustifiably trying to put atheists in a box with Satanists. There is nothing from Christian dogma that atheists follow, nor do atheists borrow from Satanism. Modern day LaVeyan Satanists admittedly borrow from atheism.

>>This quote of yours got at me, "Christians seek to be eternal; atheists seek truth..." No you have it all wrong, the truth can only be eternal unless nothing can exist.<<

I was paraphrasing what YOU said. You are merely pointing out your own error, not mine. "Knowable truth which leads to an eternal being (through science atheists attempt to find truth, which can only be eternal)." - You

****************

In conclusion:

- My opponent does not understand or know anything about the real Satanic sects, most of which believe in god or multiple gods.

- My opponent insists on using this non-existent version of Satanism, assigning it similar attributes of atheism, then claiming atheists borrow from Satanism.

- My opponent completely ignores almost every religion that predates Christianity. If there is one thing my opponent addresses, *please address the long list of religions that were formed long before Christianity* (which even have their own creation myths) and how they could have possibly borrowed anything from Christianity or Satanism. Also, if he is to point out all the similarities, that only proves that Christianity actually borrows from other ancient religions.

Resolution NEGATED.
GodSands

Pro

First off, I have not ignored the resolution. I have clearly shown my logical views, which actually came to me in January this year. It snowed hard for the first time in 19 years, I was born in January 19 years ago. The college was closed, I feel God gave me this message and the time to write it, due to the insane amount of snow. Snow also simbolises forgiveness, in that God can wash you whiter that snow. Also, this is amazing, as you may know, my first name is Josh and my last name is Crisp, standing for Jesus Christ. My middle name is Thomas, and that when Jesus rose from the dead Thomas was the one who did not believe that Jesus did. Well if you look at it this way. Atheists are in the middle, taking from both Christians and Satanists, and then Thomas which is my MIDDLE name. Can you see the connection here?

God leaves a mark in what ever He does. God sure has here. The idea had no build up or much thought, it seemed to just come to me. It is also very simple and I wonder why no one has thought of it before hand?

_____________
Argument
------------------

You say that I have not brought up that fact of old ancient religions, this is very unnecessary, since all religion has the same immorals and morals as Christians. I believe that Con is using this excuse to distract me. All ancient religions are attempts to discover the universe through using gods to answer the questions. Where as Christianity is the most popluar faith most wide spread and has been more fullfilled than any other faith. Satanist is where men has chosen to worship Satan, in this case themselves to get the best out of life. By saying I have failed is nonsense, I have heard no good reply from you, and more so none of your arguments have even challenged my agrument.

I accept that you will never agree with me. This is a very simple concept and even people who are 16 year old atheists can understand and agree with me. And they have done. Many people agree with me here, so by you trying to make things complicated, does not disprove this at all, but block people from seeing this. You only place traps and unneeded, unrelated blockage in the way.

This is clearly seen, and it is very simple. It anwsers many questions and I pray to God I could get it out there more. I have not used a new Satanism faith, but the Satanism that Satan him self believes in, all at least the most extreme type of Satanism, and yet I have said, despite that no one may not believe in this, although we do not know that, the beliefs them selves can exist. In fact, I haven't said this, but I almost turned to Satanism. Something came over me, my voice lost it's emotion, my voice became blunt and still. I was not joyful and I felt worried, I was worried that I was falling away from God, very quickly. However God brought me back as if someone was pulled out of water, into fresh clean air. And then after the time came where I wrote this.

You have also forgotten that all you say, makes you seem like you have never read this, I have mentioned this in the eariler rounds, but you did not take notice. Nothing you say (I know it sounds arrogant) can disprove this, since you can only be in one place at a time. You pick at little bitty things, where as this is about the large picture, forget about the small things that always change but focus on the large things that will never change. Such as this. All I have done is combined these three faiths and experimented with them, I wanted to know why evolution is not a straight forward as it is to some, and why God existence isn't clear to some as others. I wanted to know why atheists do not think there is a God, in general. Why can not atheists find their proof. Which lies in Jesus, our personal saviour. I also want to know what has stopped people from believing in the 6 day creation. And why people believe morality is limited. If you do not want to know this then vote for Con, but if you see that my explanation is reasonable then vote for me.

If you want to be filtered with the little things which make things complex and difficult to understand, vote for Con. But if you want to see and understand life and understand why atheists are atheists then vote Pro.

Even Satan him self said in the Gardan of Edan that you will become gods, this is clearly related to evolution. If you look into Darwins voyage you will see signs of Satanism. You will also notice that Darwins child died once he published his book, not before he published his book. But of course many of you do not look into that, but ignore it all.

Evolution never happened, Jesus existed. Satan is the father of lies, and Satanists are following a lie. As atheists you are following a lie yet you are also following the truth, because you seach for answers, even though with you belief in phsicality only, there is no more to discover in general than what there is now. Because all is physical.

Conclution:

I have not ignored any of your points, you have responed back as if you have not even read my first round. To understand it, you need to focus, be enlightened, gain knowledge, grasp understanding and then become wise. By being wise you can then decide which path you want to follow, atheism, Christainity or Satanism. You can believe in God and be a atheist, simply because God isn't real to you, by knowing God like Christians do, God is real to you.

So all religions, faiths and beliefs fall into that catogory. I see no difference between someone who says they are a Christain to someone who isn't one. The one who says, "I am not a Christian." Is only admitting that he/she isn't a Christian. However the Christain who claims to know God, is not admitting but being a wolf is sheeps wool.

There is reason also why Christianity is unquie, and that is because God (unlike religion out there) has come to us as Jesus. Instead of fighting for good deeds, Christians accept that they are sinners, in that way God will forgive you.

Con has not understood this argument, he says he does, but in his arguments you can see that he does not. I have spoken to atheists to agree with me. And yet they still do not want to change, because their heart is iron.

I have said all I have needed to say in my first round, I made no argument, I made a statment. I say this for all those who agree.

For the first time ever I don't care about the votes, I just want people to understand. If you understand my first round, there is not point in reading any other of my rounds, just Cons. For you will see them do not match up to what I have said.

Christians fight against fight for good against evil, Atheists fight between Christianity and Satanism, Satanists fight for evil against good. Simple, that is it.

To Con and all you who have read, thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
94 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
I now understand that is debate is a lot of foolish speculation, however I am still in tune with the conecpt the evolutionists cannot trust what they see to be true. Yet neither can indirect realists. All evolutionists have to be indirect realists! Affirmed!
Posted by yayawhatever 7 years ago
yayawhatever
How could Buddhism stem from Christianity when Buddhism is an older religion?
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
God has written His existence in everyones hearts.
Posted by prosandcons 8 years ago
prosandcons
This topic isnt up for debate. Con is obviously correct, but what about religions like shintoism, buddhism, hinduism, african tribal beliefs. these came from people who had never heard of christianity
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
"You imply why you feel..." * You imply what you feel... Sorry.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Kleptin, I know you believe in evolution, so how can you be sure that your five sensores are reliable? If we have evolved how do you KNOW (key word) that your five sensors and diseving you or not?

You imply why you feel and that is reality, well what if someone else feels differenty. What would you say to them? Your wrong? This is one reason why evolution is out of this world, a silly fairy tale for grown men and woman.

I am aware that this has little to do with what you are saying, but I just want you to have this insight.
Posted by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
GodSands, the projection is getting weak. Your self esteem issues do not translate onto mine. I don't feel an obsessive need to herald a belief just for the sake of getting the attention that is not given to me on the outside; that's you.

I'm on this forum because I need to keep my sanity. When you enter the professional world and learn to deal with people instead of children, you have to start becoming fake. This is something that you will learn when your IQ finally hits triple digits.

This forum is a way for me to express myself in as crude and as honest a way as possible because I have to hide my honest beliefs from my bosses, my professors, my coworkers, etc. in order to maintain a good productive workflow.

You are here because you want to feel better about yourself. You are used to thinking that you are some Philosopher King sent by a combination of Jesus, Moses, and St. Peter to lift us out of our pathetic and sinful lives so that YOU can feel important, so that the people on this site who can grind you into dust in any intellectual matter can seem insignificant and unimportant to you. It's a convenient way to reassure yourself that you aren't as big of an academic and intellectual failure as you really are.

This is about your psychological issues and inability to cope with the fact that you aren't nearly as intelligent as your hallucinations make you think you are. This is about your inability to realize that you don't have every answer and that your BS can actually be pointed out. This is about a lonely and talentless child trying to convince people he is something that he is not.

You would be welcomed here with open arms if you would just man up and admit that you have a lot to learn, drop the charade, and open your mind. All I am asking for, all I have been asking for, is some humility, honesty, and dedication to learning. You refuse to offer any of the three and in return, call hypocrisy. You need to grow the hell up.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
""Leave me, you waste my time." I sorry GodSands but when I read that one particular line I had this image in my mind of a nobleman/lady dismissing a servant...."

Haha, in a way, yeah it does seem like that. I suppose Kleptin, I must seem boastful if people see it like that.

"The other crap about abuse or whatever was ridiculous." -- I can help you there, if you like?
Posted by Metz 8 years ago
Metz
"Leave me, you waste my time." I sorry GodSands but when I read that one particular line I had this image in my mind of a nobleman/lady dismissing a servant....

And GodSands I think Kleptin was right but it was said a bit to hotly... What I believe he is trying to say is that while you have a great grasp of theology you associate Atheism with things that it is not necessarily associated with. e.g Science. That And I agree you seem to have this goal to "save people" rather than just let them be.
The other crap about abuse or whatever was ridiculous.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Is there something wrong in your life out side this website Kleptin? You are quick to get frustrated?
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