The Instigator
tan-man70
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
Vi_Veri
Con (against)
Winning
41 Points

All things considered, modernity did more harm then good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/31/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,164 times Debate No: 3461
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (16)

 

tan-man70

Pro

I think modernity did more harm then good because sex, drugs, wars, diseses, ect. are destroying familys and freinds. Drugs make people more aggressive and suicidel. Also sex is destroying family, friends, ect. It desotrys familys because if the husband or wife is caught looking at porn anywhere they could be fired or get a divorse and then the kids would go without a father or mother. Also in the news and talk shows we hear about teenage girls who had a baby and we hear about the hardship it is to be pregnat and go to school. So i say that modernity is doing more harm than good.
Vi_Veri

Con

"sex, drugs, wars, diseses, ect. are destroying familys and friends"

None of these things are new to society, nor have you shown any evidence to support such a notion. What type of sex, modern sex? You need to be clear in what you are stating here. How does sex destroy friends and families differently to how they would of "before modernity"? Diseases are a modern construct? No more than previous generations. In fact modernity provides a secure base in which to fight and cure disease, treat and prevent.

"Drugs make people more aggressive and suicidel"

What drugs, all drugs? Only some? Some of the time? Recreational drugs? Illegal drugs? Drugs do not inherently make people more aggressive or suicidal(I am assuming we can discard steroid use in this debate), drug effect depends in part on the users mood and expectation before use. For an example take alcohol, in itself classed as a mild depressant, and yes some people drink and if mood relevant, it will act as a depressant. However also consider its recreational party use, and the high it provides if the expectation is there that its use is an artefact of a "good time".

"It desotrys familys because if the husband or wife is caught looking at porn anywhere they could be fired or get a divorse and then the kids would go without a father or mother."

One does not necessarily cause the other. Assuming an individual is "caught" there is nothing about individuals where discourse cannot solve a marital issue like this. You do however make the erroneous assumption that it is the artefact of modernity (porn) that is the cause here, when in essence it was the individual's free choice to engage that activity, and the dynamic of that activity within a relationship. It has nothing to do with a modern creation, or ease of access: that removes responsibility away from the individual where it belongs.

Secondly, another wonder of "modernity" is the way in which relations may be fluid. A divorce does not remove the rights of both parents to be engaged in the life of any children. Additionally, a single parent family, may be beneficial to the child depending on the behaviour and personality of the other half. Freedom of divorce is a modern social trend that in some cases can be advantageous.

"Also in the news and talk shows we hear about teenage girls who had a baby and we hear about the hardship it is to be pregnat and go to school. So i say that modernity is doing more harm than good."

Yes it is difficult in these situations, but you will find the American school system teaches outdated conservative, models of sexual education. Their lack of modern ethos in education is a direct link to the behaviours you list. Modern sexual education programs, reduce, pregnancy rates, transmissions of STIs, BBVs.

(sex-education in schools, relevant link: http://www.iwpr.org... )
Debate Round No. 1
tan-man70

Pro

I know I wan't really clear but yes i did mean modern sex and they desotry family and friends because its every where. There are subliminal messeges in alot of products (few examples: but not everything is sexual related). I meant all drugs that are used illigaly and thoes drugs don't always depend on the users mood. At this site there is a story about a drug addict that was suicidal http://www.facingthedragon.org...

Everywhere you look there is some sort of pornography that you can find. Which leads back to subliminal messeges and how they influence the mind because basically sex sells. Yes it is his freedom of choice to look at porn and other stuff but once you do its like a drug and hidden messeges are influencing that porn and stuff like that is alright. Yes i will agree that sometimes familys do split up because the other half was acting in unnessasary manner to another person, but sometimes that unnessasary manner is acing sexualy to the same or opposite sex.

Yes sex education in school is helping us learn about the dangers of sex and how we should avoid it, but some kids don't even pay attention because they could of heard about it in 5th or 8th grade. Then those same kids end up having sex, getting a STD or getting pregnat. It helps lower it but there are still STD's and under aged pregnacy all over the world.
Vi_Veri

Con

1. Pornography is *not modern. You can see it from the ancient Egyptians to the Indians (even have temples devoted to sexual positions), etc.

2. Kids not paying attention in school is their own problem. Obviously if they pass the tests given in sex-ed class (after sex ed is teaching modernly) then they know their information. If not, they fail and have to take it again. Done.

3. Drug use and suicide are also not modern. The war on drugs, however, is.

Modernity has made life easier for us. It has created cures to diseases that at one time destroyed half of Europe, has taken us far into space, has given us the tools to find out the existence of elements.

As for divorce, it is a modern life saver for some individuals. The American Institute on Domestic Violence states that, "The health-related costs of rape, physical assault, stalking, and homicide by intimate partners exceed $5.8 billion each year." If one is not allowed to divorce such a partner, then I'm afraid you will be having more problems than if they do....

So, we can assume that the more humans know about the world, the better. Knowledge and time both progress upwards. Therefore, the modern world should be smarter than the world before it.

I would also like to request that my opponent give statistics for his reasoning. He does, after all, as Pro have the burden of proof.
Debate Round No. 2
tan-man70

Pro

"1. Pornography is *not modern. You can see it from the ancient Egyptians to the Indians (even have temples devoted to sexual positions), etc."

I'm talking about modern sex not sex that happened back in the Egyptians day and sex has changed over the last years. Right now I can go to google and type in "porn" and get 218,000,000 links that deal with porn. Now if i can go to Google and find that many links in less then 5 seconds think how easy it would be for a 5 year old to go on Google and find that stuff when 30+ years ago porn wasn't that accessible to the public.

"2. Kids not paying attention in school is their own problem. Obviously if they pass the tests given in sex-ed class (after sex ed is teaching modernly) then they know their information. If not, they fail and have to take it again. Done."

Our school just got new computers that were provided by the state. They said that the computers should improve grades but there doing the opposite. i know kids that have been A and B students that have dropped down to C and D students. Which will drop there grade point average significantly. So kids that are not paying attention in school isn't their own problem. Also how can you tell if they learned anything in the sex-ed class. They could study for every test and pass them all but walk away without knowing nothing about sex-ed.

"3. Drug use and suicide are also not modern. The war on drugs, however, is."

Thanks to the war on drugs people are getting smarter on how to distribute them and get them out to the general public. These days you can go on the internet and find recipe's to make different drugs. They also could sell alot more drug to alot more people.

"As for divorce, it is a modern life saver for some individuals. The American Institute on Domestic Violence states that, "The health-related costs of rape, physical assault, stalking, and homicide by intimate partners exceed $5.8 billion each year." If one is not allowed to divorce such a partner, then I'm afraid you will be having more problems than if they do...."

Yes for that situation but still kids will suffer from divorce. It doesn't matter why they got divorced it will still destroy the kids life. This is a site that will prove my point http://www.childrenanddivorce.com....

"So, we can assume that the more humans know about the world, the better. Knowledge and time both progress upwards. Therefore, the modern world should be smarter than the world before it."

You say that knowledge is progressing upwards. So since knowledge is progressing upwards your saying that drug dealers/ drug makers are getting smarter on how to make and distribute the drugs and that people are finding ways to access porn thought the internet, movies, etc. You also say that the modern world SHOULD be smarter then the world before it. It should be but yet it isn't. I say that because if we were then the modern world then we would have figured out world peace, how to decrease the worlds poverty etc.

Also i would like to point out that the internet isn't helping our cause at all. Like my previous statements you can get porn and drug recipe's off of it. Also you can get blueprints/video clips for making bombs, guns etc. So it is pertty easy for some one who is ticked off at someone else to go to school, office etc. with a bomb and/or gun and kill people.
Vi_Veri

Con

1. "I'm talking about modern sex not sex that happened back in the Egyptians day and sex has changed over the last years. Right now I can go to google and type in "porn" and get 218,000,000 links that deal with porn. Now if i can go to Google and find that many links in less then 5 seconds think how easy it would be for a 5 year old to go on Google and find that stuff when 30+ years ago porn wasn't that accessible to the public."

*** I was talking about porn, not sex. Again, you never described *what* exactly modern sex is. The sex act in itself has become safer (modernity has offered us contraceptives) than it was in the past. Also, we don't have the religious sexual oppression we did. How can you say "sex has changed over the years" and then go straight into talking about porn? Yes, the Egyptians had sex, and if you want to talk about people who were carving thousands upon thousands of sexual images on their temples and doing the acts themselves (yes, back in the day, showing you there is no "modernity" in what you are implying), you have the Kajuharo temple (You can look up easy, like you said finding porn was, if you wish, not posting a link here as it would be inappropriate. As a rebuttal to your 218,000,000 links to porn, I will tell you that it is on your own free will that you look at them. Because they are available doesn't mean a thing. If you don't want your children looking at it, filter it. I know growing up I never ran into any because of strict blocks on our home computer. It's very simple and easy to do. As for other porn, I'm also sure you need to be at least 18 years of age to purchase it. No need to worry that children will be buying it.)

In short, I was speaking of porn, not modern sex. You can not straw man my argument by slipping in that you think I said Egyptian sex.

2. "Our school just got new computers that were provided by the state. They said that the computers should improve grades but there doing the opposite. i know kids that have been A and B students that have dropped down to C and D students. Which will drop there grade point average significantly. So kids that are not paying attention in school isn't their own problem. Also how can you tell if they learned anything in the sex-ed class. They could study for every test and pass them all but walk away without knowing nothing about sex-ed. "

*** You can't use a correlation like that as a valid experiment. I would have appreciated an actual study. I already posted a relevant link about sex Ed above. I will repost it here for you again: http://www.iwpr.org...

3. "Thanks to the war on drugs people are getting smarter on how to distribute them and get them out to the general public. These days you can go on the internet and find recipe's to make different drugs. They also could sell alot more drug to alot more people."

Again, correlation. How are drugs in general a bane? There are Native tribes of people that use them traditionally. As for the new severity of drugs, it's bound to happen with our advancement in knowledge. Your statement pretty much says that the smarter humans get, the riskier the things they invent are. Again, the war on drugs is trying to rid the world of this. You can't say it's the thing that is causing this. It's not. That's what it comes down to.

4. "You say that knowledge is progressing upwards. So since knowledge is progressing upwards your saying that drug dealers/ drug makers are getting smarter on how to make and distribute the drugs and that people are finding ways to access porn thought the internet, movies, etc. You also say that the modern world SHOULD be smarter then the world before it. It should be but yet it isn't. I say that because if we were then the modern world then we would have figured out world peace, how to decrease the worlds poverty etc. "

I'm sorry, but the world in general is not as poor as it use to be today. You can not tell me that people in general today are poorer than people pre-modern times. That's an absolute blind statement. As for world peace, that is an idealistic idea. Yes, we're smarter, but I never said we have absolute knowledge. I could even go as far as saying maybe in the future we may figure out that world peace can not exist with the human condition. Your statement was a contradiction. You claimed, through your modern reasoning, that we should have the cure that is world peace, and yet don't have the knowledge to know that it is what a modern, intelligent mind of the future would reason.

Also, if distributors are getting smarter, so are law enforcers. Easy as that. They are still on a competitive medium.

5. "Also i would like to point out that the internet isn't helping our cause at all. Like my previous statements you can get porn and drug recipe's off of it. Also you can get blueprints/video clips for making bombs, guns etc. So it is pertty easy for some one who is ticked off at someone else to go to school, office etc. with a bomb and/or gun and kill people."

You can learn how to make something explode in Chemistry class. Of course it's easy. It's always been easy to kill people. What you need to notice is our law enforcement has improved from back in the day. Of course crime is going to get smarter, but that doesn't mean the ratio of crime has changed. Law enforcement has gotten smarter, too.

We have always had people willing to commit crimes, and the amount of them has risen with population, of course. What we must realize is that we are trying to keep them in check.

And now finally for me to mention some modern things that have advanced the world big time. I'll just name 8 of them to remain basic. Because of them, people now live longer more productive lives. I doubt that any of the things my opponent has mentioned can measure to them.

1. Space travel (So many inventions, such as cell phones, have come from this - among many other things.)

2. Modern Medicine (People are living healthier, longer lives.)

3. Working Standards ( People are working in better conditions, with better pay, etc.)

4. The abolishing of slavery and the application of rights for African Americans

5. Women's rights.

6. Removal of communication barrier (internet, media, telephones, so we can see everything in the world now)

7. Transportation (we can now get things to places faster when needed. We can travel the world.)

8. Access to information. (yes, you can get drug recipe's, but you can also get health information, information on how to fix your car, etc. We have access to so much information people are more rounded, less closed minded, and becoming more tolerant of things they wouldn't of known about years ago in an information isolated society.)

As we are finished, I'd like to say good debate, Tan-man70.

Regards,

Vi
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HellKat 8 years ago
HellKat
Well sometimes it breaks up marriages because one spouse is addicted to it and the other finds it disgusting. I don;t think it's any sort of phenomenon though.
Posted by sippinsizzurp 8 years ago
sippinsizzurp
Can someone please explain to me how porn is ruining lives? I seem to be out of the loop here.
Posted by HellKat 8 years ago
HellKat
Porn, not sex, is ruining lives. Sex is much too vague for your argument considering you specifically accuse porn of breaking homes.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
i just realized i posted my critique/rfd backwards, sorry
Posted by sippinsizzurp 8 years ago
sippinsizzurp
Sex, drugs, and porn are what make modern life so great. How could you possibly use them as an argument against modernity. I voted con, although you have a warped view on the war on drugs and what it's doing to our society.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
as you can probably infer from above, con was the better debater, but pro was the only one to bring up his own points. as such, i am torn on who to vote for. on the one hand con has more skill, but ignored her burden and provided barley anything in the way of her own arguments against the resolution. pro on the other hand, had less skill, but provided arguments with a decent amount of (somewhat befuddled) explanation in affirmation of the resolution. con also dropped pros war point, but it did pro little good, as he did not point this out. pro also forgot to attack cons space travel point, but con never pointed that out either, so both sides have one point standing. normally i would give pro a low point win, but seeing as pro never asked con about the only point she made before the third round, and was the lesser debater in a tournament debate, I'm voting CON
if anyone has any questions or concerns, feel free to message me and i will try to resolve them, but i stand by my decision.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
note, this is in reverse order, start from the bottom and read up.
pro, you attack con's evidence of sex temples in ancient Egypt and India, saying its not an example of modern sex (which you never clarify), but in doing so you prove con's point that porn/sex isn't modern, and cede the point. you also don't explain the internet point very well (con had a chance to turn this, but didn't do it).
con, another good job rebutting (and bringing up the straw man fallacy). also good job pointing out pros lack of specifics, expessially with his drug point. this being said, of the 8 points you bring up, only 4 had been talked about in the round. it is flagrantly unfair for you to bring in new points when your opponent has no chance to rebut them, so I'm only counting the 4 that were vaguely talked about (space travel, medicine, communications and access to information). your lack of explanation on these points hurt you, as did your not bringing up points until the last round (space travel you did briefly mention at the end of the second). the rest were things that pro brought up. this should of been an easy win for you, but because you didn't provide a case you made it a close debate.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
note, this is not in the correct order, so you'll have to start with the bottom one and read up.
this was a hard round to judge, both sides did a good job.
pro, you didn't define modernity and that hurt you. you also don't connect it to any of the things you say have hurt society (drugs, porn, disease). remember to link back to the topic.
con, good job rebutting pros points, and asking for a connection between them and modernity/specifics. but you dropped pros war point, all you had to say was "was is not modern", but you dropped it, so it stands. this is expesilly a bad idea if your not going to make your own case (which is a bad idea as it is).
pro, you bring up modern sex in an attempt to connect sex to the resolution. however, you don't explain it particularly well, i can kinda see where your going, but you make it tough. you cite some sources, but most judges aren't gonna go to the site, YOU have to quote the part that helps you. YOU have to explain it to the judge. don't make the judge do extra work, it wont help you (same for con). you also agree with con that sex ed doesn't work, but you fail to connect its not working to modernity, and as such you cede the point to con's reasoning for it not working; an outdated system.
con, you do a good job of rebutting 2nd round, but you leave some points unexplained, such as the war on drugs. make sure you don't leave the judge guessing about your meaning, it could hurt you.
note: con brings up that the pro has the burden of proof. however i disagree with this, i feel in this case both sides have an equal burden, pro to show modernity's harms, and con show its goods. con did little of this, and it hurt the quality of the debate. in the future remember to always make a case, even if you don't think you need to. you can never explain a point too much (until you start rambling, then you can move on).
Posted by Spiral 8 years ago
Spiral
What is modern sex? 0.o *laughs* apparently sexual repression is great again.
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Hahaha! Awesome, your debate makes me smile.
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
tan-man70Vi_VeriTied
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tan-man70Vi_VeriTied
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Vote Placed by sippinsizzurp 8 years ago
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