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ArkhamKnight753
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The Contender
raskuseal
Con (against)
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Altair Ibn La-Ahad or Ezio Auditore da Firenze

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2016 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 400 times Debate No: 85539
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

ArkhamKnight753

Pro

Altair was the first TRUE Assassin, period. His master was a traitor and worked for the Templars. He was trained by his traitorous master as well as also teaching himself the way of the Assassin. If it weren't for him, Ezio and Connor would not be walking the Earth.
His skills are so much more advanced and tactical than Ezio's... stubborn and playboyish attitude. Altair does his work out of honor, while Ezio uses revenge as his motivation.
Yes, Ezio has a greater arsenal than Altair, but in the end, it is quality over quantity. Don't get me wrong, I myself love Ezio's character, but Altair's is that much better in my head. I understand that this debate will be mostly opinion based. The question over the entire debate would be who would win in a fight: Altair or Ezio...
raskuseal

Con

Hi, I will be taking the side of con, (Ezio auditore da firenze) of this debate. I love the Assassin's creed saga, and I have played them all up to AC: Rogue.

I think Ezio is a better assassin because of all his accomplishments. He became a master assassin in the organization he never knew existed before his father and his brothers untimely death at the hands of the Templar leader, Uberto. With the help of his Uncle Mario (Not that commie Italian plumber), He spent weeks training to avenge his family and prevented the takeover of all of Italy. True, at the beginning, it was about revenge, but later in bro-hood and revelations, it was about honor and his duty to help the precursors and Desmond Miles stop the knights Templar. He also got a trilogy and Altair Ibn-Ahad only got one.
Debate Round No. 1
ArkhamKnight753

Pro

For this round, I would like to compare stories and that should shed some light on their ultimate motivation.
In his early life, Altair was born to Assassin Parents: a christian mother (Maud) and an Assassin father (Umar Ibn La'Ahad)
While Maud died in childbirth, Umar was executed by the Sacarens during the during the First Siege of Masyaf (1176), in retribution for him killing a Sacaren nobleman. Altair frantically called out for his father, before the execution, but was prevented from seeing his father's death by Ahmad Sofian, the Assassin who had revealed Umar's name to the Saracens under torture. Crushed by guilt over Umar's death, he infiltrated Alta"r's quarters some time later, apologized to Alta"r for his weakness, and committed suicide with a dagger.

Alta"r ran to Al Mualim's quarters with haste, informing him of what had occurred. Al Mualim told Alta"r not to disclose anything about the incident to anyone " not even to Ahmad's son Abbas, who would be shamed by the truth of his father's death. Alta"r considered Al Mualim as more of a father figure than his own biological father, though he was aware that Al Mualim's love was "weak and dishonest," and agreed to do as the Mentor commanded. Alta"r and Abbas joined the Order as novices soon after, grew up together and became good friends, always at each other's side.
One day, after noticing Abbas' continued grief over his father's death, Alta"r told him the truth in an effort to console him. Upon hearing it, Abbas turned over in his bed, not saying a word. The following day, the two didn't speak to each other until Abbas asked their combat instructor Labib if they could fight with real swords, instead of the wooden practice ones. It was then that Abbas revealed his hatred of Alta"r, believing he lied about Ahmad, before attacking him in a rage. As the two grappled, Abbas held his knife to Alta"r's throat and yelled that Alta"r had lied about Abbas' father to shame him. The commotion caught the attention of the other Assassins, the villagers and Al Mualim himself. Trying to quell Abbas' anger, Alta"r falsely admitted that he had lied, and the two were taken to Masyaf's dungeon. There they spent a month in confinement before resuming their training. With his crimes deemed more severe, Abbas was forced by Al Mualim to spend an extra year in training, whilst Alta"r graduated to the rank of Assassin.
"I have watched you grow from a boy to a man in so short a time. It fills me with as much sadness as pride. You fit your father's shoes as if they have been tailored to your feet." - Al Mualim talking to Altair (1189)

(Assassin's Creed Storyline) Solomon's Temple - Recovery of The Apple

Immediately after killing Al Mualim, Alta"r carried the former mentor's body through the fortress and past a shocked crowd. Suspicious that the Apple might somehow return Al Mualim to life, Alta"r decided to burn the body, enraging onlookers. Though he attempted to explain his actions, many of the Assassins, including Abbas, believed he had staged a coup to usurp the position of Mentor. Several attacked Alta"r in response, and in the confusion Abbas stole the Apple and fled.
When Abbas climbed the watchtower and used the Apple, it proved too much for him to control and began draining the life from him and several other Assassins. Alta"r quickly confronted Abbas, defeating him and reclaiming the Apple. As Abbas pleaded for forgiveness, Alta"r stared at the Apple, asking the artifact if it would sooner grant people knowledge or lead them to destruction.
In the aftermath of the skirmish, Alta"r stayed true to the Creed, ensuring that none of his rebelling brothers were killed or harmed. After subduing the rebels, he convinced them of Al Mualim's guilt and his own ability to lead the Order. Successful in his attempts, Alta"r won the hearts and minds of his Assassin brethren.

"Our duty is to the people, not to custom. [...] We shall be made anew..."
R13;Alta"r, after becoming Mentor, 1191.

After earning the loyalty, respect and faith of almost the entire Order, Alta"r desired to tell the tale of his life, and began writing his Codex. As Mentor, he started to drastically change the methods and rituals practiced by the Order, encouraging low-profile techniques to effectively combat their Templar adversaries.
As the Assassins' main goal was to protect the people, Alta"r found the ritual removal of Assassins' ring fingers "a false promise of paradise" and the prohibition against poison to be useless. He redesigned the Hidden Blade so that it would not require the removal of the finger to function, and could dispense poison. With the assistance of Malik as his right-hand man, Alta"r also designed new possible methods of assassination.
One month after Al Mualim's death, the Templars had consolidated in Acre harbor, and Alta"r concluded the Assassins should attack the port. However, when he and a squad of Assassins infiltrated the city, he found that the Templar forces had already evacuated. Searching the area for clues, he came upon the same woman who had posed as Robert de Sabl" at Majd Addin's funeral, speaking heatedly with two soldiers.
Eavesdropping on their conversation, Alta"r learned that the Templars had fled to Cyprus under the leadership of Armand Bouchart and that the woman, Maria, had fallen out of favor with them after Robert de Sabl"'s death.
Once the soldiers left, he attempted to speak with her, only for her to attack him. Although she initially had the upper hand, Alta"r ultimately defeated her and questioned her at knife-point. He then took her hostage, forcing her to travel with him to Cyprus.
Temporarily abdicating control of the Order, saying that he "built this Brotherhood to last", Alta"r arrived in Limassol and established contact with Alexander, the leader of the Resistance against the Templars within the city. Alexander became Alta"r's primary ally in Cyprus, and also took Maria under his protection
Many years later, Alta"r and Maria returned to their residence, where they mourned the death of their son. Alta"r began reflecting on the pain he had caused Malik in his life, wondering if Malik truly hated him, and Maria scolded him for his wavering faith. She convinced Alta"r that Malik would never betray him, and he resolved to infiltrate the Masyaf dungeon and rescue his friend.
Evading patrolling and sleeping guards, Alta"r sneaked into the prison and found Malik in one of the cells, skinny to the bone, hair long and beard overgrown. Alta"r brought Malik back to their residence, where the man revealed that Abbas had staged a coup two years before, had Sef killed, and framed Malik for the murder. Malik regretted that he had not been a better leader, claiming that Alta"r would not have allowed any of this to happen. Alta"r and Maria then waited until he was asleep before leaving to confront Abbas.
Arriving in the fortress, the two faced Abbas, who was soon joined by Swami bearing a burlap sack. Abbas delivered the parcel to Alta"r, showing that it contained the head of Malik, whom Swami had executed after they left their quarters. Abbas asked Alta"r why he had infiltrated the prison, which caused the other Assassins present to doubt Alta"r's motives.
After a heated conversation, Abbas demanded that Alta"r surrender the Apple of Eden; in exchange, Alta"r would be told the true circumstances of Sef's death. To Maria's shock, Alta"r agreed, extracting the Apple from his robes. As Swami approached to take it, he whispered that he had told Sef before his execution that Alta"r had ordered his death. Alta"r became furious, and his rage was sent into the Apple; its power froze Swami and drove the man to self-injury.
Two years later, Altair returned from his exile and assassinated with help, from loyal student Assassins. Altair took back power, and mentored the Creed once again. Days before death, he commanded his son to lock him in his library to die.
And so he did. Ezio Auditore found him centuries later.
raskuseal

Con

"I have lived my life as best I could, not knowing its purpose, but drawn forward like a moth to a distant moon; and here at last, I discover a strange truth. That I am only a conduit, for a message that eludes my understanding."
R13;Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Ezio Auditore da Firenze was a Florentine nobleman during the renaissance and, unbeknownst to most historians and philosophers, the mentor of the Italian brotherhood of assassins, a title which he held from 1503 to 1513.
A member of the House of Auditore, Ezio remained unaware of his Assassin heritage until the age of 17, when he witnessed the hanging of his father and two brothers, Federico and Petreco. Forced to flee his birthplace with his remaining family members " his mother and sister. Ezio took refuge in the Tusken town of Monterginni, at the Villa Auditore
After learning of his heritage from his uncle, Mario Auditore, Ezio began his Assassin training and set about on his quest for vengeance against the Templar Order, and their Grand Mastor, Rodigo Borgia, who had ordered the execution of his kin.
During his travels, Ezio managed to not only unite the pages of the codex written by Altair Ibn-lahad, Mentor of the Levintine Assassin"s, but also to save the cities of Florence, Venice, and Rome from Templar rule.
He ensured the future travels of Christopher Columbus to the New World, liberated Rome from Borgia rule, and prevented the rise to power to Ericol Massimo"s cult of Hermes, helping spread the Renaissance and Assassin ideals of independence and free will throughout Italy.
In the years that followed, Ezio began a quest to rediscover the lost history of the Order. Traveling to the aged fortress of Masyaf in order to learn more of the Assassins before him, he discovered it overrun with Templars and made his way to the city of constantople to uncover the location of the Masyaf keys, which, as he discovered, would unlock the fortress's fabled hidden library when brought together.
A decade later, Ezio had retired and resided in a Tuscan villa with his wife, Sofia Sartor, and his two children: Flavia and Marcello. Some time after helping teach the Chinese assassin, Shao jun the ways of the Order. Ezio died of a heart attack at the age of 65, during a visit to Florence with his wife and daughter.
Debate Round No. 2
ArkhamKnight753

Pro

LEGACY

"All that is good in me, began with you, father."
R13;Darim to his father before leaving Masyaf, 1257.

In 1269, Alta"r's Codex passed into the hands of Marco Polo, who recovered it from Kublai Khan. The Templars hired a contingent of pirates to retrieve it from the Assassin Dante Alighieri, who was transporting it from Venice to Spain at the time. Dante was escorted by his apprentice, a man named Domenico, who had only recently been made aware of his Assassin heritage. As the pirates attacked, Domenico broke apart the Codex and hid it, though he was too late to save the lives of his Master and wife.
Eventually, Domenico and his son took the name Auditore and constructed the Villa Auditore in Monteriggioni. Beneath the villa they built the Sanctuary, where they stored the unbreakable armor of Alta"r. This armor later passed to one of Domenico's descendants: the Assassin Ezio Auditore da Firenze.
Ezio would use Alta"r's Codex to construct weapons with the help of Leonardo da Vinci and locate the hidden Vatican Vault. After the defeat of the Templars in Rome, Ezio traveled to Masyaf to learn more about the Order, but found the fortress overrun by Templars. Traveling to Constantinople, he searched for the seals left behind by Alta"r, gaining access to the Masyaf library and ultimately communicating with his and Alta"r's mutual descendant, Desmond Miles.
Although Ezio was able to locate Alta"r's hidden Apple, he chose to leave it be, claiming that he had "seen enough for one life". The Apple was eventually removed from the library and next seen in the hands of Queen Elizabeth I of England some time after she ascended to the throne in 1558.
In 2012, the Templar organization Abstergo Industries kidnapped Desmond Miles as "Subject 17" of the Animus Project. Desmond was forced to relive the genetic memories of Alta"r to find the map noting locations of Pieces of Eden throughout the world, seen by Alta"r after his final confrontation with Al Mualim. This information in hand, they intended to search out the Pieces of Eden and create a "New World Order".
Desmond reliving a memory of Alta"r
Following his escape from Abstergo Industries, Desmond, suffering from the Bleeding Effect, relived one of Alta"r's memories while outside the Animus. During the memory, Alta"r chased a hooded figure to the top of the highest tower in the Acre Citadel, where she revealed herself to be Maria. After they shared an intimate moment, Desmond was shocked to find his consciousness separating from Alta"r and focusing on Maria. He had witnessed the conception of his ancestor, Sef Ibn-La'Ahad, further establishing the nature of genetic memory.
After entering a comatose state some time later, Desmond was placed in the Animus 2.03 in the hope of repairing his splintered subconscious. While there, he searched for a specific memory that connected himself, Alta"r and Ezio. Alta"r's Apple and Ezio's acknowledgment of the future in the Masyaf library enabled Desmond to enter a Synch Nexus and learn the location of the Grand Temple from Jupiter, a member of the First Civilization.
raskuseal

Con

I think Ezio is a better assassin because he can swim, whilst Altair can't. Ezio also has a better arsenal and can use more weapons then Altair. Ezio was able to singlehandly rebuild Rome in the Brotherhood. Ezio also has a lot of personality which makes for a better identifiable lead, while Altair was just too serious and focused to have as much personality as Ezio.
Debate Round No. 3
ArkhamKnight753

Pro

I don't believe there is anything else to argue :/
May the voting begin. I know we still have another round to go, but ah well. If you come up with anything post it in this round and I'll debate back next round.
Sorry about that.
raskuseal

Con

Agreed. Iieee got nothin left.
Debate Round No. 4
ArkhamKnight753

Pro

Words words words words....
raskuseal

Con


Duh duh duh duh duh duh ba dush!
Some folks are born, made to wave to the flag! Ohh there're red white and blue! Yeah me, yeah me, yeah me! I'm no fortunate son, no no no no. Yeah me, yeah me. When the tax man coooome to the door, the house looka like a rummage sale, yeah!
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ArkhamKnight753 1 year ago
ArkhamKnight753
Hi everyone. Sorry I haven't posted. The reason for this is that when I go to post my argument, it comes up saying that it is not my turn. I believe that this would result in a stalemate and we'll have to wait for the timer to stop. Sorry about that. On the bright side, there wasn't that much more to argue about. Sorry again.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
You don't have to collect all the feathers. I never decided to do that, and the games doesn't give you any sort of reward for going that length. Sucks, but I suppose if you want an Xbox achievement or ps3 trophy, do it. The feathers are kinda useless really.
The war machine side quest missions in brotherhood I think are mandatory sooner or later. Either way, I really enjoyed doing them because you can test just how good an assassin you really are because you automatically lose and have to restart if you get caught before you destroy the target blueprints. Then you get to the war machine and BLOW EVERYTHING UP! IT IS AWESOME!
The Templar dens in revelations I don't think are mandatory, BUT it makes the game a little easier I believe, and allows you to access assassin basses all over the place, instead of going to the island on top of the map. It's pretty convenient because then you can access a steady supply of bomb making supplies and stations all over, and one of them is bound to be close to a main storyline mission. And once you get used to the tower defense-type mini-game used for capturing Templar basses, it can be fairly fun to play.
Posted by ArkhamKnight753 1 year ago
ArkhamKnight753
Hey, you seem to know a lot about AC. I just wanted to ask, should I collect feathers, complete war machine missions, take over templar dens etc? I know they're an option, but would you recommend doing the side-quests? (Any game).
Posted by ArkhamKnight753 1 year ago
ArkhamKnight753
I heard about that as well. Good that they stuck with the Assassin's Creed idea rather than P.o.P. Otherwise Syndicate would not even be a thought. And they wouldn't be making millions.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
Yeah, I remember reading about that. Pretty interesting how far they went to make it historically accurate. Did you know that originally, it was supposed to be a prince of Persia game? you would play as some woman bodyguard or sumsuch. Eventually, it grew into a life of its own.
It's these little tid bits of trivia that makes games much more interesting and a good conversation starter.
Posted by ArkhamKnight753 1 year ago
ArkhamKnight753
Which is quite interesting actually, considering the Beta version of AC1 included a crossbow. Later they removed it because it was historically incorrect.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
It's probably a little known fact, but did you know that the assassin's were actually real? Yeah, they did actually exist AND fought the Templars in the first crusade in the middle east. They were called the Hashasins, which is where we get the English word, assassin. Unfortunately, they didn't have any of those bad@$$ wristblades. They were also against the use of bows and poisons, as they could be inaccurate. So what they would do is sneak into Templar houses and use a knife to hold a message by their head as a warning. They also did do public assassinations and took people out in secret. Also unfortunately, they lost in the first crusade and were disbanded.
Pretty cool, huh? That's why I love the AC saga. The vast majority of it is factually and historically correct. The only unrealistic part is the plot, really.
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