The Instigator
musa441
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Rasputin45
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

America and Israel are Terrorist States and Europe is the Origin of Terrorism!!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Rasputin45
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 740 times Debate No: 60050
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (4)

 

musa441

Pro

Whats happening in Gaza is what happened to the Red Indians and the Tasmanians in Australia. The real terrorists are not RadIcal Islamists they are just a product of the Terrorist states of USA, Israel and Europe. The main Originators of terrorism are the Europeans who colonized the world and destroyed the local native populations all around the world and settled their race in place. USA didnt belong to White people it belonged to the Red Indians, Australia didnt belong to the white people it belonged to the aborigines of Tasmania (Tasmanians) who were extinct by the year 1871 due to barbarism of the White people of Europe. Israel is trying to do the same these days to the Gazans and the world is doing nothing to stop it. This is because the Europeans control most parts of the world now. where the Europeans are not present physically their system is implemented there. Not all the Europeans are the culprits no but the Govts of Europe and those who support them blindly are responsible for the world wide terrorism. Islam never allows terrorism. The Muslims who are indulged in terrorism these days if you read their histories either their families have been destoyed by US and NATO bombing or they have been brainwashed by the european funded agents in disguise of Muslims. Recently in Pakistan a Jew was caught disguised as a Muslim Scholar and he was a white european jew and the white European people are difficult to recognize if they put on beards because the physical looks of the white europeans and the pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan are pretty much the same as the pashtuns also originate from one fo the turk tribes of central Asia and Northern Caucasus from where the White europeans were originated in the Ancient times.
Rasputin45

Con

Definitions:
Terrorism -
  1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
1. Gaza
"Whats happening in Gaza is what happened to the Red Indians and the Tasmanians in Australia." Except it's not. Estimates of the how many red indians were killed range from 8 to 145 million [1]; meanwhile 1800 people have died in Gaza.
What's happened in Gaza is unfortunate and miserable but it is not terrorism. Israel dropped leaflets, july the 15th, warning the palestinians to evacuate before the bombs hit [2]. If Israel is meant to be a terrorist state, it is terrible at it. They are meant to instill fear and while they may have done that they could have done much better. If Israel tried, they would have certainly killed more people and without warning they would have succeeded at terrorizing Gaza ten fold. Also consider that Israel pulled out on the 5th of August [3].

2. America
"USA didnt belong to White people," it did considering that the United states was not a concept of the indians. It was true that Natives inhabited the continent of North America but the genocides happened over 200 years ago so that is not enough proof to assert that USA is a terrorist state.
"The Muslims who are indulged in terrorism these days if you read their histories either their families have been destoyed by US and NATO bombing," an interesting assertion but first you should probably give a couple of examples and two you are saying that all Muslim terrorists, despite their claim that they are fighting for an islamist ideaology and who make no mention of the families, are only terrorists because their families were bombed by America or NATO. These are the only two times you mention the USA so I do not think you have filled you burden of proof regarding that part of the debate.

3 Europeans
"
Australia didnt belong to the white people it belonged to the aborigines of Tasmania (Tasmanians) who were extinct by the year 1871," It's true, we Europeans killed every single last Aborigne! That's why by 2001, the aboriginal population reached 400,000 [4]; see, extinct! But in all seriousness, what the europeans did was abominable, but it wasn't terrorism. Terrorism is defined as using violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims. So I must ask, what was the political aim of the Europeans? Land. The Europeans wanted the Indians' and the Aborignes' land but they weren't going to do this by instilling fear into the hearts of the peoples, no, they needed the peoples dead. What is the point of terrorizing people for the political aim of getting them dead? It was not terrorism, simply (or horrifyingly) Genocide.

4. The roots of terrorism
Terrorism possibly predates the colonial times that my opponent brought up, "Scholars dispute whether the roots of terrorism date back to the 1st century and the Sicarii Zealots, to the 11th century and the Al-Hashshashin, to the 19th century and the Fenian Brotherhood and Narodnaya Volya, or to other eras." The sicarrii were a terrorist group founded by Josephus in 6 CE with the intention of expelling the occupying roman forces [5+6]: a group in the area of palestine and israel, in the middle east, 1400 years before the colonial era.

Over to you!

Sources:
http://historum.com...;[1]
http://www.npr.org...;[2]
http://www.bbc.co.uk...;[3]
http://people.howstuffworks.com...;[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org...;[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org...;[6]
Debate Round No. 1
musa441

Pro

Terrorism is a part of Oppression and Its my Mistake that I should have used the word Oppression instead of Terrorism. Anyways either way you cant justify what the europeans have done through out history.
Rasputin45

Con

Of course, what has happened to the indigenous populations of North America and Australia is inexcusable. I would still contend Europe being the originator of oppression because slavery, arguably the pinnacle of oppression, was practiced in Egypt, one of the first civilisations in history.

Debate Round No. 2
musa441

Pro

I know that Slavery was first practiced in Egypt and its oppression but I am talking about universal slavery which is being practiced nowadays by Governments which are running states on systems which originate from Europe. The secularism is a concept originating from Europe including the Former part of Europe Russia. Secularism makes the people a slaves of the Govt in the name of Nationalism. If you see today's world there are many people in almost all countries who are not satisfied with their Govt policies but when they resist the Govt says that they are opposing the Govt thus they are enemies of the state. For example in Britain people are unhappy with the pathetic policy of British Govt in the matter of Gaza but what has happened?? nothing Britain and USA are continuously giving military Aid to Israel (the beast of this earth) so that they can plunder Gaza and Arabs at large in near future. I am not saying that all Europeans are bad but the Govts are the ones responsible and those who support their evil policies. The current economic system was introduced by Europe due to which we see a global poverty so extreme that people in different parts of the world are losing lives due to poverty and hunger where as the rich are becoming richer and poor are becoming poorer. 95 % population are now slaves of the top 5% elites such as Rothschilds, Goldsmiths, and other European Jews.
Rasputin45

Con

Thank you for your...rant?

" but I am talking about universal slavery which is being practiced nowadays by Governments which are running states on systems which originate from Europe," like?

"The secularism is a concept originating from Europe including the Former part of Europe Russia. Secularism makes the people a slaves of the Govt in the name of Nationalism." What? Secualarism in the name of Nationalism?

Secularism - The priniple of the seperation of Govermental and religious institutions.
Nationalism - The belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation.

Are you saying that theocratic states like Iran and ISIS are less oppressive than secualar states like Canada and Australia?

"If you see today's world there are many people in almost all countries who are not satisfied with their Govt policies but when they resist the Govt says that they are opposing the Govt thus they are enemies of the state."
Apart from the countries with freedom of speech. Consider all the times Fox news has slandered the latest president of the States and all the times the Government did not declare them enemies of the state.

"For example in Britain people are unhappy with the pathetic policy of British Govt in the matter of Gaza but what has happened??"
The problem here is that this isn't an example of your previous statement because Britain hasn't made people like Baroness Warsi enemies of the state. 72 out of 86 people think negatively about Israel in the UK but the government has not made state enemies out of them. [1]

"nothing Britain and USA are continuously giving military Aid to Israel (the beast of this earth) so that they can plunder Gaza and Arabs at large in near future." I could not find a source saying that the UK is funding Israel. The USA is funding Israel and there have been calls in the west for this to stop if USA really wants Israel and Gaza to find peace.

" The current economic system was introduced by Europe due to which we see a global poverty so extreme that people in different parts of the world are losing lives due to poverty and hunger where as the rich are becoming richer and poor are becoming poorer. 95 % population are now slaves of the top 5% elites such as Rothschilds, Goldsmiths, and other European Jews."

...
...
...
So...
European nations created an evil economic policy that is currently causing global poverty that literally killing people and 6.65 billion people are slaves to 350 million people, all of whom are Jewish Europeans. Problem is that there are only 14 million jews in the world [2], not just in europe so your maths are not very good.



http://www.globescan.com...;[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org...;[2]
Debate Round No. 3
musa441

Pro

Oh come on 5% was not an accurate figure given by me. Why you taking it so accurately? Its a debate and That 5% can well be 3 % or 2% or whatever the elites make!! The truth is that you can't prove that they aren't responsible that's why you are focusing on things which doesnt matter than much as lites in the world today may account for 5% , 3% or even 1% I haven't calculated the facts!! I am just speaking Generally.

Coming to the jews part. out of the 14 million jews of today 90% of them are no semitic which means they aren't real jews. The ashkenazi Jews originate from Khazar kingdom of the 7th and 8th centuries AD. They accepted Judaism on command of their King. Read the book written by a jew himself Arthur Koestler " history of the khazars" If you can. In reality there are not 14 million jews today there are just 1.4 million jews today the rest are fake jews of europe and those who are working jointly with them whether be them Christians, Muslims etc are equally responsible for the oppression today.
Rasputin45

Con

This is getting out of hand.

"Oh come on 5% was not an accurate figure given by me. Why you taking it so accurately? Its a debate and That 5% can well be 3 % or 2% or whatever the elites make!!"

Why am I taking it so accurately? This is a debate and in debates we base arguments on not conjecture like you are doing but evidence. Throughout this debate you have not given one source or accurate figure. Here are the facts: Jews make up 0.002% of the population worldwide.

"The truth is that you can't prove that they aren't responsible..."
There's this brilliant quote by Christopher Hitchens, 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'
How am I supposed to prove that 1.5 million Jews [1] are not responsible for poverty in other countries? It's your job to prove they are responsible!

"Coming to the jews part. out of the 14 million jews of today 90% of them are no semitic which means they aren't real jews."
One, this is a no true scotsman fallacy and two, what in the name of solomon's shoes are you talking about! Judaism is a religion, what does being semitic have to do with being a Jew apart from the fact that the first Jews were semitic. Using this logic, only Arabic muslims are muslims and only semitic christians are christians and only Indian Hindus are Hindus. Suddenly we have a world filled with people who practice a religion while secretly don't.

Does this apply in reverse? Are all semites Jews? Are the palestinians secret zionists? IT'S A CONSPIRICY!


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...;[1]
Debate Round No. 4
Rasputin45

Con

Ok, so the Khazars, a Turikic semi-nomadic people [1] became Jews and were the forefathers of the Jews today. Jews today got upset that they were not descendants of Abraham and created lies to deny the geneaology. So what. This does not prove that the Jews today are not Jews, that they rule over us all with a golden fist, that they are the origin of Oppression or anything apart from the fact that European Jews are descended from Turks.

Whats your problem anyway, Israel is not going to exist in ten years according to Henry Kissinger in your source.

Well thats the debate. It wasn't much of a debate, more a conversation between my opponent and me. A conversation once about terrorism, now about European Jews who cause poverty.

http://en.wikipedia.org...;[1]
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by musa441 2 years ago
musa441
Sorry for that mistake I will make sure I put Paragraphs in future arguments :)
Posted by Theunkown 2 years ago
Theunkown
fail... I meant right of the colons and quot marks :P, but still use paras
Posted by Theunkown 2 years ago
Theunkown
I agree with you BUT USE PARAGRAPHS. Press the enter key. you know the one on the right side of the letter keys? to the left of the colons and quot marks? yeah that one which you NEVER USE!!
Posted by POPOO5560 2 years ago
POPOO5560
America tactic:

Destroy a nation, blame that nation, repeat it...
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Seeginomikata 2 years ago
Seeginomikata
musa441Rasputin45Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I understand what pro is trying to say, and I somewhat agree on a personal level, that the USA and Israel are large sources of global terror. HOWEVER, pro's arguments are weak and off-topic. The pro does not seem to understand the difference between genocide and terrorism. Imperialism was genocidal, but not terroristic. Con made this very clear and deserves the win the debate, as con was the most correct in what he said.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
musa441Rasputin45Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's case was largely incoherent ranting--and *dishonest* incoherent ranting, at that, particularly when Pro admitted to making up the 5% number and complained when it was taken at face value! Conduct for Pro's behavior. Arguments for Pro failing to construct a coherent case in support of the motion, and failure to properly address Con's rebuttals.
Vote Placed by SocialistAtheistNutjob 2 years ago
SocialistAtheistNutjob
musa441Rasputin45Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Agument: Pro brought the argument from terrorism to showing himself to be a clear anti-Semite. S&G: Pro had slightly more typos. Conduct: Pro more or less forfeited a round. Possibly because he couldn't think of a response in round 2. Sources: Pro made numerous unbacked claims. All seven go to Con
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
musa441Rasputin45Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con proved terrorism predates European civilization. Pro rants about Global Jewish Hegemony, irrelevant and offensive.