America has done more good then bad over the course of history.
Debate Rounds (4)
Round one Acceptance
Round two opening augment
Round three rebuttal
Round four closing augment
A quick introduction, if you don't mind, my name on here is Blazzered. I do not debate often, but when I do, I normally debate the topic of the existence of a god. I do not believe America is a bad country, I live in America and was born here, however I feel as though while America has done MUCH good in the course of history, it does not excuse the bad it has done or overcome it.
I look forward to this debate. Good luck to Pro, I look forward to your argument(s).
Now a lot of people say that we are a terrible nations due to us going to war a lot. Now let me start off with, most of the time we are either requested to help, or that nation is treating us in some way. Now people say that we should stop getting involved in wars. We should mind our own business, and let them do want they want. But if we did that then what would WW1 been like? The allies won because we finely entered the war because Germany was trying to get Mexico to enter the war and attack us. But we where also helping the allies before that by giving them weapons. So if we had done nothing the allies would have lost WW1.
Now next war, WW2 we saw what Japan, and Itay, and Germany where doing. We saw they where killing civilians, but we didn't want to lose lives. So one we stooped trading steal to those nations, along with many other things. This made it so it would be harder for them to create weapons of war. We also where sending weapons, and money to the allies on lease. Meaning they where going to pay latter. This helped them in the war, and finely made Japan attack us. So if we had done nothing Japan would have Asia, Italy would have Africa, Germany would have Europe. We saved lives by doing that, we helped end the mass killing of civilians. Also people look down on us for using the Atomic Bomb. But you have to understand stand if we didn't so that more civilians would die, more Japanese troops would die, and more Americans would die. Was it moraly right to use that bomb. No it wasn't, but it had to be done, it brought the war to a end, saving the lives of millions of people.
Now the Korean war we where in the right to go to war over. One South Korea was a ally, while North Korea was a ally of China and the Soviet Union at the time. South Korea asked for our help, and with the UN allowing us to do it we sent our men, along with allied forces to reclaim the South Korean territory. If we had done nothing North Korea would have taken over South Korea. That war we where moraly right.
Now this next war is well yeah....The Vietnam War. Now I will say here I think that the way we did this war was wrong. I think we lost our way in this war, but South Vietnam wanted our help. They and the French wanted us to come in and help them. So we sent our men into Vietnam. Now the problem is the war was a war that we had never fought before. Our men where playing the defense. We where shocked at the way they fought. They would kill civilians, but some of them we where fighting where the same people they where men to protect. So when they found there locations we burned them, we killed civilians. Which I think made them not trust us, and hate us. We didn't want to latch a ground invasion of the North so we failed. But they also killed civilians, so I can say both slides where not right. We lost our way, also when The South Vietnam capital fell. They tried to flee to the USA.
Now after those wars we didn't want to use ground troops. Then we saw the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan, so we funded groups to attack them. We spent money in them, and trained them to fight wars we didn't want our men to fight in. It was working until 911 happened. For the first time sense War World 2 people had attacked America, the worst part was it wasn't troops. No they wanted us to feel sadness and anger, they attacked civilians. Killing Americans, they hated us for helping Israel, they hated our way of life, the way we acted and our religion. They began killing people who could not defend themselves. They killed civilians, they kill anyone who dose not agree with them. We saw it we heard the cries of the people. People wanted to see justice. We began what is now called the War on Terror. Sense then we have killed many people all in the name of justice. So we began in Afghanistan.
We need to keep on fighting these wars. Will people die yes, but we need to fight now more then ever. Russia, and China are on the rise and treating our allies. Terrorists killing anyone they do not like. It is to late to stop now. We started these event long ago, and we can not stop now. We have to create a safer better world.
Now this is just my intro I will bring up more wars, and other thing in my latter rounds.
Now back to you con.
Now for my opening arguments.
America, while has done much good in history, has done much more terrible, and awful things. From slavery, and killing innocents in war, to genocide, war crimes. Despite how much good America has done over its course of history, it does not excuse the atrocities it has committed.
I start off my argument with slavery and discrimination.
America is very infamous with its slave history. America was in a time of enslaving African American people from the early 1600's to the mid-late 1800's. Slaves would be starved, beaten, whipped, raped, and much more by their overseers. It wouldn't be until 1865 when slavery would be abolished, however, even then African American people were still not treated like any other person. They faced discrimination and segregation. They would be treated as lesser people. Having their own schools, bathrooms, water fountains, even their own place on the bus. They would also deal with lynching, and racial attacks.
This would last until the 1950's to the mid 1960's, the civil rights movement, where segregation and discrimination was put to an end, and African Americans finally got all the same rights as any other person. Now I would like for the audience to think about this as they read it. African Americans, had to deal with slavery, segregation, discrimination, oppression, racial attacks, and lynching, from the 1600's, all the way down till the mid 1960's. That is a LONG time, and a LOT of history.
"In the South, an estimated two or three blacks were lynched each week in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In Mississippi alone, 500 blacks were lynched from the 1800's to 1955. Nationwide, the figure climbed to nearly 5,000."
Next, I would like to talk about killing innocent people in war, war crimes.
America is known to have a Nazi-like army behavior. I will add some links to pictures below to show some examples of soldiers embracing Nazism by having SS on their gear, and kneeling in front of a SS flag, etc. This should back up my claim and be evidence as to what US soldiers are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Soldiers have been known to wipe out family's, killing innocent women, and children. One of the most infamous examples, would be the My Lai Massacre. Here American soldiers, shot and killed around 300-500 innocent and unarmed civilians. Not only this but women were gang raped and bodies were mutilated. This is not the only time US soldiers have done such behavior.
Another example would be the Haditha killings, where 24 Iraqi men, women, and children, were massacred. All of them unarmed. There is also many videos on YouTube, where US soldiers are terrorizing unarmed people, killing animals, bullying children, and much more. One video will be linked, that shows all of these.
Lets not forget the Kandahar massacre, and to the audience, if you go to Google, and type in something as simple as "US Soldiers killing civilians", you will find many graphic pictures of US soldiers posing and smiling with bodies of deceased unarmed civilians, men, women, and children. Disgusting acts of the US military.
Now are all US soldiers like this? No. I am aware of that. However as you can see, just from our history, what our soldiers are doing today is nothing new. It has been going on since the Vietnam war.
My last argument will be about America committing genocide.
One of the most infamous acts in American history would be the Indian removal act. This is where you hear about the Trail of Tears, where 2,000-6,000 Native Americans died, being forced out of their land. It would only be a matter of time, ti'll we stole all of the entire country from the Native Americans. To this day, we continue to steal land. Now who was responsible for the Indian removal act? US President Andrew Jackson and the US Congress.
"In his December 8, 1829, First Annual Message to Congress, Jackson advocated land west of the Mississippi River be set aside for Indian tribes. Congress had been developing its own Indian relocation bill, and Jackson had many supporters in both the Senate and House who agreed with his goal. On May 26, 1830 Congress passed the Indian Removal Act, and Jackson signed it into law."
"Traveling through bad weather and without proper clothing, at least 4,000 Cherokee died on the trail."
This is the most well known, and the perhaps even the darkest event in American History.
America has indeed done some great things in the past. However it does not excuse the bad things it has done. It does not overlap them either. America's past it to not be forgotten. America is responsible for genocide, slavery, war crimes, etc. America is not the super hero country as many make it out to be.
Slavery, civil rights, etc.
Pics of soldiers embracing Nazism
US Troops in Iraq (WARNING: Graphic)
Now I know we have done some bad things. I will be the first to say we need to reorganize our amered forces. But there is one thing you well misunderstood. Well yes some of those men fight for us, they are not from the US sometimes. These killing of civilians our sometimes private military contractors. I will say this we first need to stop the rape and misconduct in our own ranks. Then get good generals who know how to fight a war. One reason we kill so many civilians is due to our strategy of just bombing them out. We hate putting our troops on the ground, so we try to bomb them into giving up. This just will not work, you need to know where the military targets are, and you need troops on the ground.
Now the Iraq War was fought due to us saying they had chemical weapons. Which in the end was a mistake but, there leader was a dictator. He had a poor human rights record, he killed his own people. He was messing with the oil trade. All these reasons our why I think the war was justified. Now yes did we kill people yes, did we give up yes. Once we left ISIS came in and started pushing Iraq back. But we where there, we tried to create a more democratic government. This would allow them to have more freedom. We also tried to rebuild there military. My point is yes we invaded and killed people, but we are not the next Nazi Germany. We helped rebuild there nation, we are one of the nations that when we do invade usually we help rebuild once we win the war. We where trying to make there nation safer, and a better place. Did we fail? Who know it is really to soon to tell.
The Afghanistan war was all about 911. We wanted to end terrorism, we wanted to find those who made it happen and end them once and for all. We did find who made the 911 attack, we killed him. But the war is still ongoing, why is that? We came we found the guy. I'll tell you we saw what there government was doing. We couldn't stand it, so we are fighting them. They have killed there own people, and they kill anyone who goes against them. So here we are fighting a evil government that only thinks about there safety, instead of the peoples safety.
Also we do not always attack the people we do not like. Now we do attack nations now and again, but we do send tons of aid to nations that are not even our allies. Heck most Americans do not even know those nations exist. We are some of the first to come to there aid. We send billions of dollars to them, we even have Americans working them. Not in the us Amy fighting a war. No there are helping those in need. A lot of people hate the way we act, and say go home. Yet if we did that then would those nations be getting medical aid, and food, and other things? Well maybe they still would, but not us much as the used to. This saves lives, this means we are a nation with a good heart. We are always trying to make the world a safer better place for all man kind. We sometimes do that though war, we sometimes do that by sending aid, we do nothing.
Have we made mistakes of cause we have, but we need to learn from them. Instead of living in sham over them, and trying to forget them. What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger. We are the ones who are really trying to make sure the workd dosn't fall into choas. We may be hated over our wars, but every war we fought had a good reason. At least 90% of the time.
This is my second round, now back to you con.
WW1 Pro claims the allies won because of the US. However, he has no proof of that claim. It is very much possible that Britain could of fought of Germany, and the US could have fought off Mexico, as we have in the course of history. Pro's claim here is just a postulation. He has cited no sources here to prove his claim. I would also like to say the reason we stepped into the war, was NOT because the allies were having a hard time winning the war. The truth to why the US entered the war, was because a German submarine sunk a ship holding over 100 Americans, resulting in all of their deaths. Most Americans were against joining the war. However, the US stepped in anyways.
WW2, what Pro means here is we placed sanctions upon the Axis nations. Pearl Harbor happened, resulting in America joining the war. Pro again postulates saying that if the US hadn't entered the war, the Axis would have won. When in fact the Russians, while having difficulties, were able to push the Germans back. The atomic bomb is another debate on whether it was justified or not. The result of the atomic bomb was the death of over 70,000 deaths, and over 70,000 others being injured. This was an inhumane act of the US.
Korea, a war that some say is still going on today because of there being no peace treaty signed. The US did not need to enter the war, for it was not America's war. North Korea is still at large and is committing genocide to its own people right now as we debate here. America did not stop North Korea, America only pushed them back. They still kill, and they still bomb.
Vietnam I discussed in my argument. We killed innocent, unarmed civilians. A war the US lost, and was not a US war to begin with. Pro even admitted to how the US acted in Vietnam. "So when they found there locations we burned them, we killed civilians.". Whether both sides were in the right or not, this is a debate on America have a good history or bad, and in Vietnam, the US did not leave a good impression. Regardless to how the North was with their own people. The people the South came to for help, were people being no better than the North.
Next Pro discusses how the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, and yet again, the US gets involved in a war that is none of their business. The US funded and trained the group that would later attack them! Pro then tells about how 9/11 was an attack on our civilian and Pro then says "Sense then we have killed many people all in the name of justice.", yet I would like the audience to consider how many innocents we have killed in that time period. I made clear and gave evidence to how the US has acted in the "War on Terror". In interviews, majority of people in Afghanistan have no idea of 9/11 and the tell about how many buildings the US has destroyed and people they've killed.
"We have to create a safer better world." When the US is actually making it a more dangerous place.
Now I will defend my arguments from Pros rebuttals.
"Well yes some of those men fight for us, they are not from the US sometimes. These killing of civilians our sometimes private military contractors."
Do you have proof of this? The events I have mentioned are from US Marines. You can see in the sources I listed in my arguments. These were not private contractors.
"One reason we kill so many civilians is due to our strategy of just bombing them out."
So despite America's knowledge of killing civilians, they continue. Not caring for civilian life. If America truly cared, they'd stop these bombings and think of a better way.
"Now the Iraq War was fought due to us saying they had chemical weapons."
This is a known lie, the US used this lie to have an excuse to go into Iraq and steal their oil. Many lies were told to get involved into Iraq, many will be in one of my sources. The US had no real reason to be involved in Iraq. Iraq's problems were Iraq's problems. The US getting involved did not help, but only made things worse. The US isn't even responsible for ending that brutal dictatorship. The Iraqi people did that themselves. The US wen't in to fix, and look at where Iraq is now. Its in a deeper hole than where it was before. There are several cases of our troops killing innocents, raping women and children, and such Nazi like behavior, terrorizing the people. I listed examples in my arguments in Round 2, and those are not the only times the US terrorized Iraqi people. The war went on for several years. I gave evidence of soldiers embracing Nazism .
"We where trying to make there nation safer, and a better place."
By killing their civilians and raping women and children? As I said earlier, the US was not responsible for ending their dictatorship. The Iraqi people did that themselves.
Pro then goes into the war of Afghanistan. I ask Pro and the audience, do you think that what the US does in Iraq is only limited to Iraq? What the US has done in Iraq, has also been done in Afghanistan. I listed an example in my previous argument. The Kandahar massacre. What has happened in Iraq, has also happened in Afghanistan. The US has indeed taken out the man responsible for the September 11th attacks. However now we have no reason to stay in the entire middle east. The war(s) there are not America's. America is not in danger, America is not helping. America is killing innocent civilians, Pro has even admitted. " One reason we kill so many civilians is due to our strategy of just bombing them out.".
Pro them brings up about the charities America is responsible for. The medical aid America gives to countries. However, once again does this overwhelm the cruelties America has done over the course of history? Does this overwhelm the genocide, the Nazi behavior, the slavery, the lies, the killings of innocent people? I would think not, and I would hope the audience would agree. The aid America gives through charities, does not excuse the cruelties America has done over it course of history. America has done more more bad than good over its course of history, and its charities do NOT excuse the bad that has happened.
"We may be hated over our wars, but every war we fought had a good reason."
The reason the US is hated is because of its reasons for enter war(s) and what the US does in them! The US will enter a war that is none of its business and will kill innocent civilians, rape the women and children, and will not accomplish anything to help the people! Vietnam, Iraq, and the current war in Afghanistan are all examples. There is no excuse for what the US has done in these wars. The reasons behind enter these wars are not good reasons. Vietnam was to stop communism, which the US failed. Iraq was for weapons of mass destruction, which was a lie by the US, and Afghanistan was to take out one single man responsible for 9/11, which would also result in massacres and deaths of innocent civilians, raping of children, destruction of their own homes and buildings. There is no good done in any of these wars by the US.
To conclude my arguments on slavery, genocide, and the killing of innocents still stands. Pro has given 1 true example of the US doing good, which would be the medical aid it gives through charities. However that does not overcome all the bad in the US history such as slavery, the trail of tears, Native American genocide, unjustified wars, killing innocents, etc. America has done more bad than good in the course of history and I have provided evidence/proof, and many sources to back up my claims.
US helps Al Qaeda
Afghan people don't know about 9/11
Iraq responsible for their dictators death
Now let me say something, yes we have done some bad things. But the world would be a lot worse without our help. For one after WW2 we spent billions on rebuild Western Europe. They where in massive amounts of debt, they where all weak after WW2. So if we didn't help them after the war, the Soviet Union could have easily taken a few more nations as satellite states.
Back then the Soviet Union was trying to expand and stay in power. The people didn't want to be part of there nation. Yet they forced them to. The Soviet Union was a lot worse then the USA. They used the KGB to remove anyone they didn't like. They preformed mass killings of civilians. They where no better the criminals. Yet we had to sit back and watch them kill those people. So we began reinforcing our allies, making it so if you mess with us you face all of us. Back then time where different, it was a darker sader time. Both slides did wrong things, but the Soviet Union was worse. That is a fact, if needed I will bring up examples in the comment section.
After WW2 we didn't leave Japan to die. No we stayed and rebuilt there economy, we helped them stay whole. We rebuilt the stuff the was needed to be rebuilt after the war. Because of our involvement Japan has become a economic power house. We made it so they have every freedom that you would see in our nation, or on western Europe. My point with this is we do not leave the nations we invade until they are rebuilt.
We are sown to protect 1/4 of the world population. We are allied with all the NATO nations, most of South America, all of Central America, Australia, New Zeland, Japan, South Korea, Philippians. We are trying to create a better world. We have also started to help Vietnam.
Now as I have said we before Iraq was under a dictatorship. Also the only reason they have a democratic government is due to us. We came in and ended the dictatorship, if we didn't do this Iraq would still most likely be under a dictators rule. Was the rebellions trying to stop him? Yeah there was but they all failed. We also stayed and helped rebuild the government.
So you think we are the big bad wolf? Think aging, here are some examples
Have we changed? Yes we have we are now the strongest nation in the world. Yet if we are the new Nazi Germany then where is our empire? Why isn't Afghanistan, and Iraq now US territories? Are we prefect no we are not, but we do not steal land from other nations now. The last time we did was in the Spanish American war. That was in the 1800's, do we like our guns? Yeah we do, we like our military yes we do? Do we get involved in other nations business yes we do. But if we didn't do anything then the world would be in choas. Even if we do not try to stop terrorism it will still happen. They hate us, they hate us for helping Israel, they hate our culture, the way we act. They see us as there biggest enemy. They hate knowing that we have to power to stop them, but I'll say this I bet the world wouldn't last 10 years without us. We have created democratic nations, we have helped weak nations become strong aging. If we give up, and stay home in our nation and say by we no longer care about you guys. Dictators would start expanding, Russia would expand even more, terrorism would spread, china would take out the nations surrounding them. You can hate us, but we are basically the worlds police. We have done a lot of good and a lot of bad in our history. But hasn't every nation done evil things? No country if prefect, no nation has done nothing wrong. Sometimes you have to fight to achieve a better world. Sometimes you have to fight to create a safer world. Sometimes people have to die, do I like war? No I hate it, but I think that it is a necessary evil. Also the mass killing of Indians was not just us, Britain stated it, so did Spain. We just kept on doing it.
Now if you have any questions I will answer them in the comment section. Now back to you con.
"Also you want proof that they would have lost without us in WW1 well here we go. For one you can read any history book, or read online that we where helping Britain."
Pro did not bring forth any proof. He just gave more meaningless conjecture.
"Now let me say something, yes we have done some bad things. But the world would be a lot worse without our help."
This is just an assumption. Pro is postulating. No one knows how the world would be if America was not around.
Pro now begins telling how the US aided in rebuilding Japan after the bombings. The US did indeed help rebuild, however, does that pay for the +70,000 innocent lives the US murdered, and the extra +70,000 that were severely wounded? Imagine if someone blew up your house, killing everyone in your family, then those responsible came in and helped you rebuild your house. Would you forgive those responsible for killing your family?
Remember, those killed and severely wounded in the bombings, were men, women, children, and elderly. ALL unarmed, and ALL innocent people.
"if needed I will bring up examples in the comment section."
The debate is here. Not in the comments. Anything in the comments shall be disregarded, not added to the debate.
"We are sown to protect 1/4 of the world population."
Yet, as you can see in today's and the US's history, America is doing the opposite. Killing innocents, raping children, has committed genocide to the Native Americans, destroying homes, unjustified wars, slavery, etc.
"We came in and ended the dictatorship, if we didn't do this Iraq would still most likely be under a dictators rule. "
As I said in the rebuttal round, the US is NOT responsible for Saddam's death. The Iraqi government took Saddam out themselves. They ended their own dictatorship. I provided sources to prove my claim in the previous round.
"Was the rebellions trying to stop him? Yeah there was but they all failed."
I believe it was the US who failed, sense they were not responsible for taking out Saddam. The Iraqi government took out their own dictatorship. All the US did was go over and stir up more trouble.
"We also stayed and helped rebuild the government."
Yes and look at where they are now. ISIS reigning over them.
"Yes we have we are now the strongest nation in the world."
Irrelevant and another postulation.
"Yet if we are the new Nazi Germany then where is our empire?"
Never did I say we were the new Nazi Germany. Pro is now distorting.
"Are we prefect no we are not, but we do not steal land from other nations now. The last time we did was in the Spanish American war. That was in the 1800's,"
Let me remind everyone, this debate is about America doing more good or bad over the course of history. So no matter how long ago it was, it does NOT make it irrelevant.
"Do we get involved in other nations business yes we do. But if we didn't do anything then the world would be in choas."
Yet another postulation.
"They hate knowing that we have to power to stop them, but I'll say this I bet the world wouldn't last 10 years without us."
Pro is continuing to postulate and is trying to distort people from the original topic of the debate.
"If we give up, and stay home in our nation and say by we no longer care about you guys. Dictators would start expanding, Russia would expand even more, terrorism would spread, china would take out the nations surrounding them."
"Also the mass killing of Indians was not just us, Britain stated it, so did Spain. We just kept on doing it."
The order of taking the Native American land was by the US congress and president Andrew Jackson with the Indian Removal Act. I posted a source for this in Round 2.
In conclusion, I believe America has done more bad than good over the course of history. America has been responsible for the following bad things I have mentioned throughout this debate....
1) Slavery/Lynching of thousands of African Americans, up to 5,000 lynchings, slavery from the early 1600's to the mid-late 1800's
2) Genocide of many Native American tribes, 2,000-6,000
3) Deaths of THOUSANDS of innocent lives,+70,000, plus other injured, not just counting the ending of WW2
4) Unjustified wars such as Vietnam and Iraq
5) War crimes such as Haditha, Kandahar, My Lai
On the other end, America is responsible for the following good things, mentioned by Pro, throughout this debate.....
2) Aiding Japan in rebuilding, AFTER killing over +70,000 innocent and unarmed men, women, children, and elders, while severely wounding +70,000 more!
I have given more examples of America doing bad than Pro has given examples of America doing good.
I have provided proof/evidence to back up my claims, and have provided sources for ALL of my arguments and claims.
I have presented the facts, while Pro has postulated, distorted, and conjectured throughout most of this debate.
All of my arguments remain standing while, including the 3 I started with.
Pro gave 11 links describing atrocities other country's are responsible for, these are to be disregarded as they are irrelevant and are an attempt to distort the audience away from the original subject of the debate.
Pro has said he will add more into the comments if he needs too. What ever is said in the comments is to be disregarded from the debate, as whatever is needed to be said, should have been said here in the debate. Not in the comments.
Pro has said that he will answer questions in the comments section. Once again, anything said in the comments is to be disregarded from the debate. Whatever needed to be said should have been said here in the debate. not in the comments.
I said in my introduction that I do not believe America is a bad country, I live in America and was born in America, however I feel America has much more bad over the course of history, compared of how much good it has done. What good America has done throughout history does NOT excuse the atrocities America is responsible for. America is responsible for, once again....
2) Genocide of many Native American tribes
3) Deaths of THOUSANDS of innocent lives
4) Unjustified war
5) War crimes
What good America has done throughout the course of history, does NOT excuse the bad things America is responsible for.
This has been a rather fun debate. I am glad to have been apart of it.
Sources throughout the debate:
Slavery, civil rights, etc.
War Crimes/Killing Innocents
US helps Al Queda
Iraq responsible for Saddam's death.
US Soldiers embracing Nazism
US troops in Iraq (WARNING: Graphic)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by greatkitteh 1 year ago
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||0||5|
Reasons for voting decision: ThisbdebatebConvinced me thatvthe USA Was worse. Grammar:Now next war, WW2 we saw what Japan, and Itay, and Germany where doing. Now a lot of people say that we are a terrible nations due to us going to war a lot. Now let me start off with, most of the time we are either requested to help, or that nation is treating us in some way. These Are All bad Grammar from Pro, giving Con a Win. Arguments: Pro gets distorted and Ceers Of course, and Cannot provide sources. WW1 -Compkete victory to con, Pro could not provide Evidence USA was needed in World War I. WW2 Pro failes to provide evidence the USA was nessasry, Whule con provided a Moral and Logical example. War in afahnistan Pro makes Baseless assertions, Whilst Con has provided specific Massacres to back up Con's Claim. War In Iraq: Pro displayed Incorrect facts (Saddan Hussein), And Made Irrekevant Discussions. FIGHTING IRAQ DOES NOT MEAN CHINA AND RUSSIA WILL DECIDE TO STOP EXPANDING. Thus, Con wins.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.