The Instigator
TheMarketLiberal
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Absolutely_Fundamental
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

America is not a Christian nation

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 209 times Debate No: 106714
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

TheMarketLiberal

Pro

The resolution is that America is not founded on Christianity.
Absolutely_Fundamental

Con

Ill accept the debate, Assuming by America you mean the United States of America, I will attempt to prove not only was the USA founded on Christianity it is to this day still largely influenced and it's doctrines continue to be influenced by Christianity.
Debate Round No. 1
TheMarketLiberal

Pro

Contrary to popular mythology, our founding fathers were not Christians: they were deists. Take for example Thomas Paine: before Thomas Paine, most Americans were royalists, but in 1776 he published a pamphlet entitled 'Common Sense 'which changed public opinion and led to the American Revolution. For this reason, Thomas Paine is considered by most historians to be more responsible for the American Revolution than anyone else.

Thomas Paine makes his religious beliefs very clear in his book 'The Age of Reason,' in which he systematically refutes Christianity and attacks organized religion in general. Here is what he had to say about the bible:
"
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.

We scarcely meet with anything, a few phrases excepted, but what deserves either our abhorrence or our contempt, till we come to the miscellaneous parts of the Bible."
- Age of Reason, Part 1 Section 4


George Washington, Thomasa Jefferson, and John Adams were all deists as well.

Absolutely_Fundamental

Con

The United States of America was formed after severing allegiance to the monarchy of Great Britain, after which time several documents and laws were passed that would later shape the culture and structure of what we see as the USA today (such as the Bill of Rights, Deceleration of Independence, so on and so forth.) These are what The United States was built/founded on, these were and are the moral stand points, because all laws are is quite simply the moral opinions of society's leaders and/or people depending on the political make up of the country put onto a document, in the case of the USA, being a democracy I would say it is a mixture of both the peoples and leaders beliefs systems.

Now we have to look at where these Moral compasses come from, for someone's moral compass that helps them determine what is "right and wrong" is solely based on the society they are in and the society they were brought up in, for example in the western world it is seen as morally wrong to beat a woman for showing her face, but in the middle east this doesn't register as an immoral act, not because one society is any more or less right than the other but because good and bad is simply a relative thing. Almost all of the original "American citizens" were either British or French, both of which are countries that have Christianity as the leading religion and doctrine in their society, all of the founding fathers of America were raised Christian whether or not they grew out of that, there beliefs and the beliefs of America's people stem from the belief system and moral stand point of a Christian society.

There is nobody impartial, one can only judge by the moral standards given to them from the culture they were brought up in, knowing this we can say that the United States whether by the active choice of its founding fathers and its citizens or not, was founded on Christianity and follow in their laws and regulations quite parallel to the laws a regulations passed down from the Christian god to Jesus (if you believe that sort of thing). By conscious decision or not The United States was founded on Christianity and its belief systems.
Debate Round No. 2
TheMarketLiberal

Pro

So your argument is that because our founding fathers were raised in Christian Families, they were Christians? That's bullsh*t- I was raised in a Christian Family and I'm an atheist.
Absolutely_Fundamental

Con

My argument is nothing of the sort, I don't claim they are Christians, I claim their belief systems and social understandings are from a Christian background, an ideology they were brought up on which was integrated into their subconscious understanding of morals and the world, making there core belief system and in turn the laws and regulations they passed based on a Christian belief system. The same way most Eastern cultures laws and traditions are based on some for of Zen belief system whether they are Buddhist or not, and they same way Arabic countries have laws surrounding Koran culture even though not all all makers believed in the Koran.

My argument is quite simply whether you associate yourself as a Christian or not, if you were brought up in a Christian society your morality system and the systems you put in place are largely influenced by the religion.
Debate Round No. 3
TheMarketLiberal

Pro

So you're saying that they were subconsciuously Christians, because they were raised Christians, and thus the Constitution is full of subliminal pro-Christianity ideas? I'm sorry, but that's not true- the Constitution waas based on Enlightenment values taken from the Greek and Roman Republics.
Absolutely_Fundamental

Con

More or less, yes that is exactly what I am saying, I wish you had elaborated more on your point about Roman and Greek Republics being the basis of the Constitution but I'll just have to make assumptions as to what you mean't.
Assumption 1: The Roman Republics ran in a democracy as does the American Political system, a lot of political systems run this way it does not mean they were founded on them, the idea I am putting across isn't how they work but the core values and beliefs laid out by them, what is seen as legally all right and what is not, the laws in Ancient Greece and Rome are so far different from that of early America so you can't be basing this statement solely on the legal side. So I am unsure if this is what you mean't.
Assumption 2: You're saying that the Romans and Greek ideologies were a major factor in that of the American Constitution, if this is the case you seem to be forgetting Rome played a large part in forming what we see as Christianity today.
Assumption 3: You are saying that perhaps we can trace roots back to the Roman and Greek times that correlate with modern America, in this case we could say all constitutions were taken from values found in Africa were all humans evolved from?
I don't really understand your argument and really wish you had elaborated as I stated above, It seems like you didn't really want a logical debate but instead wanted to push your idea's and weren't willing to take anything else into consideration.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Absolutely_Fundamental 4 months ago
Absolutely_Fundamental
I amde two spelling errors in my second argument it should read as follows:
"some form of Zen belief system" instead of "some for of Zen belief system"
and
all law makers not "all all makers"
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