The Instigator
leonitus2464
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
pivot
Con (against)
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America is not founded on Christian morals.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,117 times Debate No: 61063
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

leonitus2464

Pro

I will be arguing the point that the USA is not founded on Christian principles.
Round1:acceptance
Round2:debate
Round3:debate
Round4:conclusion
pivot

Con

Challenge accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
leonitus2464

Pro

first off the first amendment contradicts three commandments here is the text of the first amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."-first amendment u.s constitution.

this contradicts these three commandments

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."-first commandment. this contradicts freedom of religion.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."-second commandment. this contradicts freedom of speech.

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."-third commandment. contradicts free speech again.

this is just what contradicts the first amendments there is more evidence than this like article 11 of the treaty of Tripoli also proves that america is not founded on christian morals.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."-article 11 treaty of Tripoli.
pivot

Con

Con Rebuttal round 2:

1) Pro failed to list even one Christian moral in round number two

a) The 10 Commandments are not Christian. The 10 Commandments were written by a Levite several hundred years before there were any Christians.
b) The entire Old Testament was written before there were any Christians.

2) Pro failed to explain the Christian meaning of 'treaties'

a) Do Christians have a treaty with God?
b) Do Christians have a treaty with non-Christians?
c) Does God have a treaty with non-Christians?

Con argument round 2:

The Canaanites received the Land of Canaan by treaty with God. The Canaanites failed to live up to their treaty with God and lost the right to live in the Land of Canaan. The ancient Israelites entered into a treaty with God and received the right to live in the Land of Canaan. The ancient Israelites failed to live up to their treaty with God and lost the right to live in the Land of Canaan, (Babylonian captivity). By treaty God brought ancient Israel back into the Land of Canaan. Again ancient Israel failed to live up to their treaty with God and again God forced ancient Israel out of the Land of Canaan, (General Titus and the Romans). Roman justification for the invasion of Palestine was the fact that Jerusalem broke the treaty it had with Rome.

After the destruction of Jerusalem, General Titus went back to Rome and conducted a Triumph. After the Triumphal parade a Jewish Menorah was carved on a stone pillar for the following generations of Romans to remember. Also the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was razed and the stone works were used to build the Roman Coliseum.

Con point number 1:
The First Amendment that Pro listed in round 2 is a Christian Triumph on the order of General Titus'. The First Amendment was never meant as a Christian Moral.

Con point number 2:
The treaty of Tripoli is a simple statement that the U.S. was not interested in a religious war.

Con point number 3:
The treaty of Tripoli is an inferior treaty for explaining Christian intent. Real Christian treaties are of the type used to subjugate the American Indians.
Debate Round No. 2
leonitus2464

Pro

they are christian there in the christian holy book the bible and Christians consider them theirs they are christian commandments and the old testament does matter within christianity because in the new testament says that jesus sad this "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."" mattew 5:18 . the treaty was with the ottomans but the point that they felt the need to add that america is quote "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" still matters. I contunie my points. but you never even said anything to prove america is founded on christian morals.
pivot

Con

Claiming that the Ten Commandments are Christian property is like saying that oxygen is Christian property-

1)Christians must breath air.
2) Christians must obey the law.
Therefore
Air and the 10 Commandments are Christian property, (sic).

Everyone must breath air. Everyone must obey the law. Pro's main point in this debate is based on the false premise that the 10 Commandments are Christian. The 10 Commandments are not Christian, they are not Jewish and they are not even the property of mankind in anyway shape or form. The 10 Commandments are the building blocks of all society just like the Elements of Chemistry are the building blocks of all the physical universe. Can the Elements be changed? Yes. Can the 10 Commandments be changed? Yes. But neither the Elements or the Law are property of Christianity.
Debate Round No. 3
leonitus2464

Pro

the ten commandments are shared between Jews and Christians so they belong to both they are christian and Jewish morals. that and there are other commandments that contradict u.s law like we don't outlaw adultery you cant go to jail for that. this is not even limited to the ten commandments. we also don't enforce things like executing gays "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." Leviticus 20:13 or a witch "You should not let a sorceress live".Exodus 22:17 or fortune tellers "A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death".Leviticus 20:27 so america is not founded on christian morals due to contradiction of the bible and u.s law.

vote pro
pivot

Con

Yes vote Pro just on the strength of Pro's last argument. The Pro debate was supposed to be about the founding of America but Pro's number 4 is about current affairs. Or maybe Pro believes that America was just founded yesterday. Uhhh-

Have you ever read, (heard of would be a better question)-

Pro have you ever even heard of the Puritan book "The Scarlet Letter"? Maybe I should explain the question-

The Puritans were part of a Christianity that actually helped to found America. What the Puritans would do was to place adulterers in the stocks, (Pro the word "stocks" here is not a financial term). The book "The Scarlet Letter" was authored by a Puritan to protest the practice of shunning.

Now I know that people like you Pro think that because the Puritans frowned on adultery that that proves the 10 Commandments were written by Christians but I assure you that the 10 Commandments were written by a Levite many hundreds of years before there were any Christians. Further I submit that the entire OT was written by non-Christians. Now the New Testament is a Christian work. If you would like to debate whether or not the New Testament moral code made a government like that of the Puritan U.S. Constitution then that would work out fine. But the OT and the 10 Commandments would never be able to produce such a Nation as the United States with the freedoms that we have today. Not even if Moses were to come back from the dead.
Debate Round No. 4
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by pivot 3 years ago
pivot
This should be a debate about Judaism founding America as Pro has only quoted from the very old and decrepit Testament/Treaty.
Posted by pivot 3 years ago
pivot
Well then let's continue. You have a good point. I will do my best.
Posted by leonitus2464 3 years ago
leonitus2464
im arguing this because of the people who say somthin like"america is a christian nation".
Posted by leonitus2464 3 years ago
leonitus2464
things like stealing and murder have been laws before christianity its not a christian moral its been around forever. save this for the debate.
Posted by pivot 3 years ago
pivot
If you are saying that the 10 Commandments are Christian morals then why are you debating this subject? All serious nations throughout history have been founded on things like 'thou shalt not commit murder'.

Even before Moses everyone knew it was wrong. Moses just made it official. You see Moses murdered an Egyptian. Moses broke a principal Egypt was founded on. Are you saying ancient Egypt was a Christian nation because they naturally obeyed the 10 commandments?
Posted by leonitus2464 3 years ago
leonitus2464
*shouldnt
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
Obviously you never studied Hebrew. The word god( El Shaddai) means exactly that.I do not forfeit anything. I am not here so someone can put a well done sticker on my forehead.
Posted by leonitus2464 3 years ago
leonitus2464
you should have forfeited the debate if you wanted to argue about it that's your fault and im not wasting all of my arguments in the comment section because you wont shut up. since when did you just get to add providers in there that's not what the commandment said you don't just get to throw that in their. weather government has made the country great or not was your opinion and is not worth responding to. that's it im done responding to you.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
The ten commandments are not in contradiction of the constitution.Thou shalt not have any gods(providers) before me. Government was never intended to be provider of peoples livelihood. All the original precepts of the constitution was that government would see to it that no one infringed on their right to do as they pleased, unless it violated societal standards of decent living.All the crap that liberalism has crammed down out throats over the last 100 years is not constitutional. The weazles in Washington take an oath to defend the constitution but it is as meaningless as their political promises.I have seen the constitution buried under mountains of foolish and destructive legislation. America has prospered, not because of government, but in spite of it.But I think that not even America can survive the mindless people we have there now.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
And what is this diest nonsense. You mean. one day Washington prayed to Jesus. Then the next day he prayed to allah. Then to buhda. Get my point.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Jellon 3 years ago
Jellon
leonitus2464pivotTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro, the 10 commandments aren't inherently Christian morals. The fourth commandment includes not doing any work on the seventh day of the week. Most Christians do not observe that commandment. Most Christian congregations meet on the first day of the week. Romans 13 encouraged Christians to be law abiding citizens of the Roman government which was written from a jail cell by a man imprisoned for proclaiming Yeshua Jesus as the Messiah. Perhaps Christian morals include a separation of church and state. Con: you made no positive argument for your resolution. You only replied to Pro's statements. Frankly, you didn't do a good job of that. Both of you were sarcastic. No points for anyone.