The Instigator
MakeDebatingGreatAgain
Pro (for)
The Contender
Abatable
Con (against)

America is the greatest nation that currently exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 5/23/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 397 times Debate No: 102732
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

MakeDebatingGreatAgain

Pro

I will be arguing that America is the greatest nation currently in existence. I will be defining "greatness" by these terms: prosperity, quality of life, individual freedom, economic diversity, technology, military power, international relations (allies, the UN, etc), government stability, and rate of advancement. First round is acceptance ONLY. Happy debating.
Abatable

Con

First off, thanks for defining the argument so concisely. Now to continue, let's examine the parameters of the argument and why they are false.

Prosperity - many countries are vastly more prosperous. Marketwatch says most Americans are one paycheck away from the street (www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-are-one-paycheck-away-from-the-street-2015-01-07). Huffington Post says almost 50% of working, gainfully productive American families are one crisis away from abject poverty (http://www.huffingtonpost.com....)

I live here in Malaysia, a third world (or more accurately, second world) country and there are almost no homeless people here. A minimum wage worker actually can have savings if he (or she) wants to. I have to admit that people work hard here, but Americans work just as hard.

If you just keep your money in a bank fixed deposit (analogous to Time Deposits and Certificates of Deposit) you'll get a return of 4.1%, which is way above anything an American bank will ever offer you. It's also safer - it's guaranteed by the government of Malaysia (rated A-3 by Moody's, A- (long term)/A-2 (short term) by S&P, and A- by Fitch) and no bank has ever failed in this country.

This compares favorably with the US, in which so many banks have failed there's actually a permanent list at https://www.fdic.gov... .

Taxes are low. If an individual holds real estate for more than five years, the capital gains tax rate is zero. All capital gains accrued by individuals after five years are not taxable. There is no inheritance tax here. Dividends payable are not taxed either.

Quality of life - We have 14 public holidays a year. These are public holidays, not paid vacation days. Companies usually allocation another 14 days of paid vacation (called "paid leave" here) for a total of 28 days. Your average employee works 9-5 five days a week, and gets almost a month of vacation a year, fully paid (not including sick days.)

Healthcare is subsidized, the government pays most of it. If you are "disabled", the government pays all of it. If you are employed, the employer usually has a contract with several healthcare providers, which means your healthcare is fully paid.

The weather is mild and tropical. The warm and humid climate means no one ever dies of "exposure".

individual freedom - when we talk about freedom here, we usually mean one of two things. The first is freedom to move (personal mobility) ie. how easily can a citizen get from one point to another? towards this end, we actually have three train networks and are building a fourth.

We also have extensive bus routes connecting them. From my house, I can walk to a train station and take a comfortable, spacious, quiet, air-conditioned train to a mall over twenty kilometers away, and all it would cost me is fifty US cents.

If one prefers to drive or ride a bike, one can do that as well. There are two ride-sharing services operating here (Grab and Uber), as well as taxi services.

The second (and arguably the most important one) is personal freedom (as in the right to free speech.) This is well respected here. The prime minister has been roundly roasted for some things he said that the citizens did not take kindly to. For instance, there was one day that he said that food prices were not going up because the price of a vegetable (one vegetable) had remained constant. This was the result of it :

https://www.google.com...

I'd say the point was made, wouldn't you? :)

Economic diversity - we are usually known as an oil-producing country, but we also produce palm oil, rubber, rice, fish and vegetables. In addition, we have a thriving electronics industry, playing host to many global players such as AMD, Intel, Seagate, Samsung and Western Digital. Apart from that, we also have a service industry - AMD also has a global services center here, as does Paypal.

There are also local players such as Silterra and Malaysia Microelectronic Solutions (MMS.) The processor you are using in your computer could have been made here.

Technology - I'd have to say we import most of it, or rather that we import the people who help us build the technology, which we then run and maintain on our own. Most of the technology here is based off of a design that originated outside the country. I think we saw no real need to reinvent the wheel, when we could see so much further by standing on the shoulders of giants.

Military power - this is formidable, but we are not exactly a military superpower. That said, we are surrounded by two closely allied countries and the sea. We are also fortunate to count among our friends the world's top two military superpowers (and perhaps a third as well.)

International relations (allies, the UN, etc) - Malaysia is a member of the UN in good standing. Razali Ismail of Malaysia was president of the UN's 51st general assembly (http://www.un.org...). We are allied with pretty much every major country, and several less-major ones.

Government stability - The leader of the country has never been assassinated. There are no riots, and the rare blackouts do not result in widespread looting. No government has ever been overthrown by force.

Rate of advancement - The Sun says "Malaysia's economy recorded robust growth of 5.6% in the first quarter of this year (1Q17) against the 4.1% registered in the same quarter of 2016, boosted by strong domestic demand and private expenditure." - http://www.thesundaily.my...

This compares favorably with the US growth of 0.7% this past quarter (https://www.washingtonpost.com...) despite Trump's promises of growth.

That concludes my argument. The facts above clearly demonstrate that America is not the greatest nation that exists, based on the parameters offered. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
MakeDebatingGreatAgain

Pro

My opponent seems to have read my opener quite closely, and nitpicked every part of it, however THEY HAVE FAILED TO SEE ONE SMALL DETAIL, that they were only supposed to accept the debate in the first round. This is quite a silly move, as how could my opponent possibly not notice that "first round is acceptance ONLY." statement in my opener, which was not even an argument (as they interpreted). Thus it can be concluded that my opponent must have blatantly ignored my instructions, since they couldn't have mistakenly not seen that rule I outlined. If they read each part of my opener, and provided a statement for each of the definitions of greatness, than they must have noted that first round was acceptance ONLY. This blatant disregard seems like a slur in conduct, but I'm willing to continue my arguments on the United States being the greatest nation.

My opponent first references prosperity, and that many nations are more prosperous than the united States financially. However, the amount of money earned in several leading countries (including Malaysia) is less than the united states, as indicated by this nation comparison website [1]. The citizens in these nations, especially in communist and socialist nations, make less money on average. Also, even though the website references most of these countries as paying far less in health care costs, this is solely due to the fact that each citizen pays for their health care through the extensive amount of taxes imposed upon them by their governments. The U.S. government charges far less in taxes than any other nation, as shown by this source [2]. Thus, the statistic of health care costs being really high in the U.S. is unrealistic and false. Malaysia was not on this list, and I couldn't find any reliable sources for the total tax rate in Malaysia, so if my opponent could provide a legitimate source, since they are more knowledgeable of Malaysia than me, than I would be thankful.

My opponent discusses individual freedom as being prominent in Malaysia, but I have found several sources indicating that Malaysia has been suppressing individual expressing under their sedition acts [3] [4]. This seems contradictory to my opponent stating that free speech is valued and 100% allowed in Malaysia. Obviously, not all is sound, as free speech in Malaysia can be restricted by theses sedition acts if the government deems it offensive to the prime ministry and alleged government scandals. This also degrades my opponents argument that Malaysia has extensive political stability. Another article also enlightens on some further instabilities [5].

My opponent concedes that Malaysia is no where near a military power such as the United States, which has the powerfulness military on Earth [6]. They also state that Malaysia depends on other nations for technology, and I have found that the U.S. is second only to Japan in technological advancement [7]. This shows that Malaysia, and many other nations, are behind the U.S. in technology. They also state that Malaysia is an economically diverse nation, but make no attempt to refute the United States as being economically diverse. The U.S. is quite economically diverse, with the highest nominal GDP [8]. Malaysia is not the most economically strongest nation, and is outnumbered by the U.S. at number 1 on the scale.

The statements about Malaysia being a country with a high rate of advancement may be true, but only for now. The United States may have had such a slow growth rate this first quarter due to Trump trying to gain a foothold in the white house. It is expected that the economy will soon rebound when Trump begins implementing more policies. As for Malaysia, there is evidence to show that economic growth is limited by the size of a nation, in that smaller nations will grow to less overall than larger nations [9].

I am running short of time, so I will have to cut this argument short for now. I hope my opponent now understands not to post an argument in the first round, as this left me very unprepared for their arguments, and it gives them an unfair advantage in that they receive one extra chance to post an argument than me. Nevertheless, I wish my opponent the best of luck in the next argument.

Sources:
http://www.ifitweremyhome.com... [1]

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org... [2]

https://www.amnestyusa.org... [3]

https://www.hrw.org... [4]

http://www.focus-economics.com... [5]

http://www.businessinsider.com... [6]

http://www.vcpost.com... [7]

http://www.investopedia.com... [8]

https://dash.harvard.edu... [9]

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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by leiferikson 7 months ago
leiferikson
@missmedic

Absolute nonsense.

America is the only reason all those first world nations have universal healthcare, and our contribution to fighting in wars ALSO is at the pure benefit of EU nations.

America is carrying the rest of the, "developed", world on its shoulders and your trying to break its legs.
Posted by Abatable 7 months ago
Abatable
American doctors :) and hey if I click on the button that says I don't like this debate, am I being masochistic? :)
Posted by sboss18 7 months ago
sboss18
I believe in angles, both acute and obtuse. Don't get me started on right angles, though, hoo boy.
Posted by missmedic 7 months ago
missmedic
America has been at war for 222 of its 239 years. America is one of the only industrialized countries that does not have universal health care. U.S. government entities spend more per-capita on health care than all but two other countries in the world. America leads the world in porn (89%) and people in prison about 2.2 million, mostly blacks. Should I mention the homeless, about a million. The United States ranks No. 18 overall by survey respondents for providing a good quality of life. As for the rate of advancement, nothing slows it more then religious belief, and America has the most adults that believe in angles.
https://www.usnews.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.theguardian.com...
Posted by Abatable 8 months ago
Abatable
This site is badly broken, "awkward" technical errors happen when I post. Somehow no such thing ever happens when I post on a local site :) also forgot to mention that the best mutual fund has accumulated a gain of 534.6% since it launched in 2001.
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