The Instigator
revleader5
Pro (for)
Winning
34 Points
The Contender
08tsuchiyar
Con (against)
Losing
32 Points

America needs to crack down on illegal immigration.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,705 times Debate No: 812
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (19)

 

revleader5

Pro

Here are the negatives of illegal immigration. I would like my opponent to say the positives.
-Costs taxpayers millions in healthcare each year. When an injured illegal immigrant comes in and receives medical care, it is on the taxpayer dollars.
-Costs California an increased tax to have translators for hospitals because of the large amount of spanish-only speaking people who called.
-Takes jobs away from hardworking americans.
I'll name more in my next arguement.
08tsuchiyar

Con

My primary argument is that illegal immigration is in the interest of both parties. The impact of a crack down will help no one.

The life of an illegal immigrant is rarely economically good or stable. These people have a need to come here. We would be unnecessarily hurting many good and hard working people. The economic affect on them would be hard. We know why they immigrate. It's because of very tough circumstances. Immigration is a choice but very often it is a choice between extreme poverty or poverty. These people have not cruel intentions and are no harm to our country.

People overseas already see the U.S. as a bad or evil country for a number of reasons. By adding a "crack down" on illegal immigration as an act by the U.S. which hurt foreigners we would be viewed as an even worse nation then we already are viewed as. It is in our best interest to refrain from acts which would be seen as xenophobic to the outside (outside of the U.S., not meant as an offensive remark) world.

Rebuttal and my economic arguments:

The health care for illegal immigrants does cost millions of dollars each year for the U.S. but that cost is relatively minor and insignificant compared to their economic contribution. The U.S. is a rich society reliant on cheap labor, often foreign, or located overseas. The U.S. does not have a large enough low class population to sustain the upper and middle classes so if there was a sudden "crack down" the U.S. poor class would grow and the upper/middle classes would shrink. Do we not want to keep our luxurious life style?

For example this summer there was a lack of labor in the agricultural industry in the North-west. The fragile agricultural industry needs cheap labor (young, immigrant, or poor for minimum or below minimum wage) to continue production. This summer during the harvesting season for many fruits there was a lack of cheap labor resulting in a lot of unpicked fruit. This is a large waste of production. The cause of this problem was a combination of a lack of labor and the fear of hiring illegal immigrants due to recent "crack downs". No Americans took the opportunity to work in the agricultural industry. The Mexicans had not taken "the jobs of hardworking americans."

Recently I have heard a fact regarding the social security system. Illegal immigrants often use fake social security numbers to find work. Using those fake numbers they pay social security taxes through their job. This money goes to the government. It is nearly impossible and very rare for people to use fake social security numbers to collect social security. This is a one way flow of cash for the government. As we know the social security system is in a precarious position regarding the cash flow. As the baby boomers retire the new generations can not sustain their retirement resulting in a huge deficit. It has been predicted that the system will collapse in coming decades.

The added income (but no expense) from illegal immigrants has sustained the social security system and even prevented the system from collapsing already.

There are added costs, particularly in the health care sector of the government but a "crack dow" will also cost a lot of money. The government will either pay health care for the immigrants and receive added income in social security from the immigrants or spend money to "crack down" on the immigrants and lose their added income in social security.

Then after these government costs are accounted for the combination of an earlier social security collapse and a shrinking of the upper and middle class would result in a huge economic impact. Would that not have a bigger impact on our lives then the health care costs in the "millions" (Just to be nice....I think it's actually closer to a few billion the same cost as a "crack down")

We help no one with "crack down".
Debate Round No. 1
revleader5

Pro

I would appreciate a list of positives for illegal immigration, not hearing it repeated that they are honest and hardworking. If they were honest and GOOD people as you are telling me, why do they feel the need to sneak into the country, and not try to get a legal status? Sneaking into the country. Such a strong term for a strong crime.
08tsuchiyar

Con

Firstly, I believe the topic is "America needs to crack down on illegal immigration." not "illegal immigration is positive/negative" so I don't think I have to answer your question concerning the positives of illegal immigration but I will to strengthen my position.

I don't think listing is the best method for debate but I'll list the points I made in the previous response.
-There is an economic benefit of/need for Illegal immigration(for both the U.S. and the immigrants). I feel that is a large enough reason since it seems that your only reason in your "list of negatives" is also the economic impact through the health care costs and "taking jobs from Americans" (By the way aren't Mexicans from "America" thus being Americans)

Now to answer your questions....
You ask why they "feel the need to sneak into this country?" I believe I explained that they are in poor conditions and are in a desperate situation economically and see the U.S. as the land of opportunities, as we always bragged to be. They are in desperate circumstances where there is a high level of unemployment so they sneak into the U.S. where the labor demand is.

About the legal status of the immigrants. There are lottery systems or high costs to legally enter the U.S. What motivations would they have to enter the country illegally if there are easy legal methods to enter the country. It eliminates the fear and instability of being an illegal immigrant with the potential of a "crack down". There is an obvious gap between the supply of visas and demand for visas. This results in the motivation for illegal immigration. That is why the "feel the need to sneak into the country."

What is the huge crime of illegal immigration? I do not understand.

In the above answers to your questions I have not mentioned the people (often criminals) with ill intent. I think those types of people are a very small minority and the "crack down" would probably have a minor impact on the criminals crossing the border. I will say those who commit crimes (other then entering the country illegally) should be punished accordingly in a fair manner.

You say "Sneaking into the country. Such a strong term for a strong crime." Could you please explain this? How is it a strong crime? What is the ill intent and damage of illegal immigration?

I'll try not to go into the personal attacks category with this statement. I can't tell that you read my previous response at all and I wish you would respond to it.

I believe I have argued your list of negatives so could you please add some more or retort to my arguments or else this is not much of a debate?
Debate Round No. 2
revleader5

Pro

Quote from your argument- About the legal status of the immigrants. There are lottery systems or high costs to legally enter the U.S. What motivations would they have to enter the country illegally if there are easy legal methods to enter the country. It eliminates the fear and instability of being an illegal immigrant with the potential of a "crack down". There is an obvious gap between the supply of visas and demand for visas. This results in the motivation for illegal immigration. That is why the "feel the need to sneak into the country."

Well obviously they see America as the land of opportunity, but that is not our fault. Just because they see us as better shouldn't tell them, "OKAY, abandon ship and move out to America!"

No matter what you say, they still commit a crime.
08tsuchiyar

Con

Do not exaggerate the extent of the immigration. I just wish you would have explained what is so bad about the immigration to make it a crime. Yes it is a crime no matter what I say. That is not what I was asking. I was asking what is so negative about illegal immigration to make it a crime but you failed to answer that. I am trying to say that the crime is good and we economically rely on it being committed. I can not do much to argue what is the law because the law is the law. I just am arguing the intent or justice of the law.

I am really disappointed in this debate. I had hoped for a true discussion. You have not defended your position. I was hoping for and expecting a two way discussion with a lot of information but I was disappointed. Thank you for your time.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ThornyThePirate 9 years ago
ThornyThePirate
I voted for you 08tsuchiya! even though I disagree with your position, you argued it better than the other person.
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
I thought you did better in this debate, tsuch, and I guessing a lot voted with their opinion on the issue. Rather than really arguing what you wrote, your opponent mostly attacked your debate style or said unsupported fact...or very little.
Posted by 08tsuchiyar 9 years ago
08tsuchiyar
Are you serious that everyone is voting for the other guy? Jeez....I thought I did well....any tips buddy?
Posted by 08tsuchiyar 9 years ago
08tsuchiyar
dang! I meant to say "We help no one with a "crack down"". oh well....lol. no biggy. hehe.
This is my first debate on here and I'm already enjoying it.
19 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Mharman 1 week ago
Mharman
revleader508tsuchiyarTied
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Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
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Reasons for voting decision: counter vote bomb
Vote Placed by Willoweed 5 years ago
Willoweed
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Reasons for voting decision: The facts show that con is correct
Vote Placed by magpie 8 years ago
magpie
revleader508tsuchiyarTied
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Vote Placed by 08tsuchiyar 8 years ago
08tsuchiyar
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Vote Placed by SexyLatina 9 years ago
SexyLatina
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Vote Placed by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by invertman 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by ThornyThePirate 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by DocORock 9 years ago
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