The Instigator
Desertice
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
nerdykiller
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

America should declare Pakistan a terrorist state

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/12/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,262 times Debate No: 16482
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Desertice

Pro

After getting all the proves of terrorist camps and activities in Pakistan by C.I.A and Indian intelligence wing R.A.W America should waste no time in declaring Pakistan a Terrorist state. Pakistan has two faces one where it shakes hand with America and other where it back-stabs it by funding Taliban. It gave shelter to Osama and other Most wanted terrorist and actually misused American aid against Indian and planned 26/11 attack and series of bomb blasts killing thousands of innocent people. Now even after so many direct links and proves world still spares Pakistan then million Osama's will be born on its soil. Get ready for another 9 or 26/11
nerdykiller

Con

Thank you for this interesting debate.

Definition

Declare- to announce officially
http://dictionary.reference.com...+

Terrorist- a person who terrorizes
http://dictionary.reference.com...+

State- the condition of a person or thing

http://dictionary.reference.com...
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"After getting all the proves of terrorist camps and activities in Pakistan by C.I.A and Indian intelligence wing R.A.W America should waste no time in declaring Pakistan a Terrorist state."
Can you give me a source to this statement?

"Pakistan has two faces one where it shakes hand with America and other where it back-stabs it by funding Taliban."
Can you provide any proof of this statement?

"It gave shelter to Osama and other Most wanted terrorist..."
How do you know if they did help shelter Osama? Maybe Osama sneaked in to Pakistan to one of his many hide outs which are located throughout the Middle Eastern countries.

Why Pakistan isn't a terrorist state.

1) Pakistan is helpful to U.S.

"Pakistan plays a vital role in keeping supply lines open for U.S. and Western troops battling Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan. About 40% of NATO's non-weapons supplies move by truck from the Pakistani port city of Karachi to two crossings along the Afghan border."
This quote tells the importance of Pakistan to the U.S. If America declares Pakistan a terrorist state what would happen to the friendship between America and Pakistan. Without Pakistan's help with keeping the supply lines open for America, the Western troops fighting Taliban in Afghanistan would suffer of lack of supplies.

http://www.latimes.com...

2) What about country like Afghanistan?

"...nearly 10-year-old conflict in Afghanistan: a weak, corrupt and deeply unpopular central government..."
This statement tells that country like Afghanistan is more of a terrorist state then Pakistan. Afghanistan was also attacked by many Taliban fighters in Kandahar.

http://www.latimes.com...
http://www.latimes.com...

3) Pakistan alliance is needed to the U.S.

"Pakistan is a steady partner when it counts. It stood by the United States when India, America’s current darling, danced body-rubbing close with the Soviet Union—to America’s detriment."

"Pakistan made it possible for the United States to reap the benefit of the Soviet Union’s defeat in Afghanistan. The Mujahedeen—more armed poppy growers than religious zealots—fought, died and defeated America’s rival superpower in a key strategic part of the world."


Pakistan stood by U.S. when U.S. needed them to. Pakistan is a helpful ally who helped America with the war on terror.

http://gazettextra.com...

Conclusion
Pakistan is a helpful country in the war on terror. Without Pakistan's help supplies wouldn't be delivered to the Western forces fighting insurgents. Country like Afghanistan is more of a terrorist state then Pakistan. Pakistan has helped America when Soviet Union came to the Middle East. Bottom line is that Pakistan is a helpful ally that shouldn't be called a terrorist state.

Debate Round No. 1
Desertice

Pro

Well that seems too naive to believe that Osama sneaked into Pakistan without authorities knowing anything about him.He was just few meters away from Military academy in Abbottabad. It was a big mansion without proper legal documents. No body was allowed to sneak inside. Everything was suspicious and the world is talking the same.R.A.W informed America in 2004 about Osama in Karachi . This means you are not interested in reading newspapers and watching television. When you asked about proves of C.I.A and RAW giving proves of terrorist camps in Pakistan then it has been shown times and times again on television. You can also check wikileaks cables for dossiers exchanged between C.I.A and R.A.W. I am from India and we are battling state sponsored terrorism from last 27 years. We have given ample dossiers to U.N , U.S.A and Pakistan also. When you mentioned Osama's role against U.S.S.R and Pakistan help in war against terror then it shows that you are not concerned about terrorism elsewhere in the world. If any nation gives your army route for supply to Nato services then it gets license to run terrorist camps on its soil. When you mentioned about Taliban role against U.S.S.R then you forgot 9/11. When I started this debate that America should declare Pakistan a terrorist state it was based on moral grounds too. If Pakistan is pretending to help you then it not for free , America is giving financial aid to Pakistan. War against terror means War against terror not War which suits American interests. Now you are not realizing Pakistan danger as America couldn't do in case of Taliban and what happened was 9/11. Now as you have mentioned India's alliance with Russia then I must tell you we wanted to be friends with America too but U.S.A was not interested in our friendship with both of them. We were part of Non-alignment movement and we couldn't choose any one block. so we wanted to maintain friendly and cordial relationship with both. Russia said yes while America didn't respond. Now also we want to be friends with every nation . When it comes to war against terrorism we are with America but it should be for world peace not according to America's whims and fancies. Now here I want to clear that I am not against common people of Pakistan but it's political structure and it's Army. Declaring it a terrorist state would help us and other nations to create much needed pressure on it's economy which is being used to fund terrorism. Now when you are so worried about supplies your own president and Army head has given statements after statements that they are not dependent on Pakistan for supplies. You mentioned Pakistan as a very helpful state but what about funds from west which is keeping it's destroyed economy alive. It is not Pakistan loyalty but it's need.Popular sentiment in Pakistan is against America. We are with America in war against terrorism but you can't decide everything according to your country rules in an international issue. Sooner or later Terrorism is going to affect every country of the world. Start looking from international prospective. Now when you mentioned a poor destroyed nation like Afganistan as a dangerous terrorist state which desperately needs help from international community surprised me. First west ( and I support this one) attacked Afganistan saying that it wants to help it buy freeing it from Taliban and after remaining there for 10 years now the same affected people who first were crushed by Taliban , then saw Nato forces bombarding their Houses are being equated with Taliban. Strange argument. Now We ( international community) should help them. All over the world Newspapers are flooded with reports and statements Questioning integrity of Pakistan. Salman Rushdie , American C.I.A heads and thousands of others have said the same. In 1999 Kargil war thousands of Taliban fighters were killed with Pakistani Army soldiers and I.S.I agents. I.S.I trains Talibani fighters. The recently concluded operation to kill Osama was also conducted by America without Pakistan knowledge and Drone attacks on Pakistani soil which are being criticized by Pakistan shows lack of coordination and trust between American forces and Pakistan. This further strengthens my point. The topic here is Pakistan dangerous potential against other countries of the world too. This is not purely based on America's Interests but for International safety.

www.timesofIndia.com
www.newsweek.com
www.Newyorktimes.com
http://www.indianexpress.com...
nerdykiller

Con

Thank for your argument.

I just have to say that you should put the exact link of the website you got your information rather than just the general website. If you just put www.timesofIndia.com it isn't helpful because how am I going to find the article out from many articles uploaded every day.

Rebuttals
"Well that seems too naive to believe that Osama sneaked into Pakistan without authorities knowing anything about him."
- It doesn't seem naive. Osama was the leader of Al Qaeda which is a big organization. I believe that he actually can infiltrate the border and got a safe house in Pakistan.

"It was a big mansion without proper legal documents."
- Where did you get this information from? Also I don't believe in a country of 1,760,709,573 people living, it was easy to just find Osama right away because he was in a big mansion without legal document.
http://www.census.gov.pk...;

"Everything was suspicious and the world is talking the same. R.A.W informed America in 2004 about Osama in Karachi. This means you are not interested in reading newspapers and watching television. When you asked about proves of C.I.A and RAW giving proves of terrorist camps in Pakistan then it has been shown times and times again on television. You can also check wikileaks cables for dossiers exchanged between C.I.A and R.A.W."
- First of all I think you shouldn't assume that I watch the news. And if you really want to back up your statement then give me links.

"I am from India and we are battling state sponsored terrorism from last 27 years. We have given ample dossiers to U.N , U.S.A and Pakistan also. When you mentioned Osama's role against U.S.S.R and Pakistan help in war against terror then it shows that you are not concerned about terrorism elsewhere in the world."
- This whole topic is based on Pakistan and whether it should be consider a terrorist state. Of course I concrete most about Pakistan, but like I said in Round 1 I wrote that country like Afghanistan that is more terrorist like than Pakistan.
I do care about other terrorism elsewhere in the world. It is disrespectful for you to say that I don't care about others.

"If Pakistan is pretending to help you then it not for free , America is giving financial aid to Pakistan. War against terror means War against terror not War which suits American interests. Now you are not realizing Pakistan danger as America couldn't do in case of Taliban and what happened was 9/11."
- Like all allies America is giving financial aid to also improve on the friendship with the country. Can you clarify this sentence, "War against terror means War against terror not War which suits American interests." You can't just blame 9/11 all on Pakistan. 9/11 was carried out by Taliban not the whole country, so it gives you no reason what so ever that Pakistan is the one to blame because of this act.

“Now as you have mentioned India's alliance with Russia then I must tell you we wanted to be friends with America too but U.S.A was not interested in our friendship with both of them. We were part of Non-alignment movement and we couldn't choose any one block. so we wanted to maintain friendly and cordial relationship with both. Russia said yes while America didn't respond. Now also we want to be friends with every nation. "
- I only put the India's alliance because I wanted to put in the whole statement. You said, "We were part of Non-alignment movement and we couldn't choose any one block. so we wanted to maintain friendly and cordial relationship with both." How do you know what your government truly wanted? Are you a government official?

"Declaring it a terrorist state would help us and other nations to create much needed pressure on its economy which is being used to fund terrorism."
- Can you provide any resources about this.

"We are with America in war against terrorism but you can't decide everything according to your country rules in an international issue."
- Can you clarify what I said that made you think like this?

"Now when you mentioned a poor destroyed nation like Afganistan as a dangerous terrorist state which desperately needs help from international community surprised me. First west ( and I support this one) attacked Afganistan saying that it wants to help it buy freeing it from Taliban and after remaining there for 10 years now the same affected people who first were crushed by Taliban , then saw Nato forces bombarding their Houses are being equated with Taliban. Strange argument. Now We ( international community) should help them."
- Afghanistan is a country that is harboring all these terrorist and is being constantly being attack which is why U.S. Army resorts to using airstrikes to kill them. Why do we keep on bombing them is because we our trying to kill the terrorist there. Our forces are there to keep the citizens of Afghanistan safe, but the terrorist keeps on fighting back. If the terrorist stop killing people and terrorizing maybe our soldiers will withdraw.
Here is an article saying that terroriost has slain 4 U.S. soldiers. This is the reason our soldiers keep on staying in that country to insure that the terrorists won't do any more damage to that country.
http://www.latimes.com...

"All over the world Newspapers are flooded with reports and statements Questioning integrity of Pakistan. Salman Rushdie , American C.I.A heads and thousands of others have said the same. In 1999 Kargil war thousands of Taliban fighters were killed with Pakistani Army soldiers and I.S.I agents. I.S.I trains Talibani fighters."
-Can you provide any links or resources other than just writing general links? What I am asking is for my opponent to write where they got the information.

Conclusion

Pakistan is an important ally. Like I have said before they are an ally to the U.S against the war of terrorism. They have help NATO by help supplying them with supplies the NATO and U.S. needs. In a world like today every ally is important. People believe Pakistan is a terrorist country because they support terrorists. This is not true because if Pakistan did support terrorists than why would terrorists attack Pakistan.
http://www.latimes.com...
Other country like Afghanistan is more of a terrorist country than Pakistan. I know that my opponent might hold some grudge or dislike Pakistan because he believes they helped to act out 26/11, but he shouldn't say that Pakistan is hold responsible for that act because you can't prove that Pakistan actually did that.
Pakistan is an ally and a great help on the war against terror.

Debate Round No. 2
Desertice

Pro

First of all I want to apologize if I have been disrespectful in any means to you or anyone. But you can't understand the problems we are suffering because of Pakistan. Now when you said Osama infiltrated the border without any knowledge of Pakistani authorities , then the world thinks different. when you asked for links then I gave you three indirect but one direct link which i guess you didn't see. First I shall give you link for this one. Now nearly every news channel and newspaper is asking the same . It is difficult to give all of them but few are here.Now when you said that it was difficult to find Osama in a big country because he was in a big mansion without legal documents then my friend( I hope we can be friends leaving this debate aside) he was near a millitary academy, which I have already mentioned is a high security area kept under strict vigilance.

http://marculyseas.wordpress.com...
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
http://www.newsweek.com...
http://www.examiner.com...
http://www.deeshaa.org...

Now when you said that Iam a government official if I know about dossier sent to pakistan and U.S.A then here are the links

articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-05-04/india/29508331_1_terror-camps-terror-infrastructure-terror-outfits
http://www.hindu.com...
http://news.rediff.com...

you are so obsessed with links that you need a link to a simple fact that if any state is declared terrorist state it's economy comes under pressure. I understand links for important points and facts but for every line you need a link . Even for simple dictionary definitions you have given links to dictionary.com. Then I need to give you link to adam smith theories and every theory of economics that when a country which is heavily dependent on foreign aid and trade is isolated from the world it sinks. Now How can I provide links for every T.V. report watched in 1999 kargil war and after and sent you newspapers.Now when you said I shouldn't assume that you watch T.V or news then should I have assumed that everything you come to know via links or net. Should I provide you link for kargil war, India geographical location and every word I type. There is something known as memory. You read several articles on net, watch news from all over the world, read several reports daily.

Now when you mentioned that if Pakistan is a terrorist state then how come terrorist attacks happen on its soil. Then I want to again say that Jihadi group and Pakistani army controls Pakistan which is interested in maintaining its grip no matter what they have to pay for it. Gaddafi too is killing his own men and other dictator and millitary regimes have done the same like Junta in myanmmar.

www.nitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0728/WikiLeaks-fallout-US-UK-India-criticize-Pakistan-as-terror-haven
"The ISI facilitated militants to cross the border to carry out strikes on Indian targets chosen by the Pakistan Army, several detainees at the Guantanamo Bay facility told US interrogators, according to a fresh set of American diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.
The interrogation reports quoted a detainee as saying that ISI "allowed" militants to travel to India where they conducted bombings, kidnappings and killing of Kashmiri people and the targets were picked up by the Pakistani Army."

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com...

Even Barack Obama has raised questions over Pakistan intentions and he expressed it in fox news interview
http://blogs.reuters.com...

there are questions all over world over Pakistan my friend
http://articles.latimes.com...

http://in.reuters.com...

dailywww.mail.co.uk/news/article-1383011/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Pakistanis-burn-US-flags-backlash-grows.html

Now when you said we couldn't prove 26/11 attacks then when was trial held where we lost and pakistan was declared innocent by International community. were you there give me links for that now. We gave dossiers after dossiers. Terrorist ajmal kasab was caught which was accepted to be pakistan citizen by Nawaz sharif (former Pakistan prime minister) . Now don't tell me that you need a link for Prove that Nawaz sharif was pakistan's former P.M. But I will still give you that.
http://www.rediff.com...
Even C.I.A doesn't trust pakistan army and that is reason behind repeated drone strikes and other activities which pakistan is against and there have been conflicts between both on these strikes.
http://news.antiwar.com...
http://www.latimes.com...

Now when America attacked Afghanistan and till date west calls Afghanistan an affected state not a terrorist state. The whole war if you remember was to free poor Afghanistan from Taliban. Afghani people are nice.
nerdykiller

Con

nerdykiller forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by nerdykiller 5 years ago
nerdykiller
srry I messed up my timing...
I was at at party yesterday and forgot.
Posted by Thaddeus 5 years ago
Thaddeus
"Popular sentiment in Pakistan is against America."

Popular sentiment just about everywhere is against America. It hardly means that America has the authority to declare Pakistan a terrorist state.
Posted by nerdykiller 5 years ago
nerdykiller
There might be a chance I might not post my argument...
My computer is acting up.
I need to fix it...
And I have California Standard Test thing.....
If I don't post my argument then sorry....
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by BennyW 5 years ago
BennyW
DeserticenerdykillerTied
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Vote Placed by CiRrK 5 years ago
CiRrK
DeserticenerdykillerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit