The Instigator
theITdude
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mray56
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

America should have the ACA. Also known as " Obamacare".

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Mray56
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/8/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 797 times Debate No: 58725
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

theITdude

Pro

America's healthcare system is too expensive and inefficient. It's just cost to much money and it does not produce results. We need to make sure we get quality and affordable healthcare. The ACA is the change we need.
Mray56

Con

Thanks to my opponent for this debate. I wish him the best of luck.

Opening statement

My arguments will consist of how badly the Affordable Care Act(ACA) had failed and miss interpreted the nations current healthcare stake. Although the intentions are in the right place, this legislation resulted in a complete disaster for our national healthcare system. Since this legislation was passed it had many difficulties and flaws which increased criticism and opposition.

Arguments

First of all, we need to articulate why the ACA was created. According to the census bureau, 48 million people were uninsured in 2012. The white house expected 14 million Americans to have signed up by 2014. Its 2014 and this is clearly not the case. This could have been true, however, due to Obamacare mandates of private insurers, many people lost their coverage. It is estimated that around 6 million lost their coverage due to mandates imposed on private insurance companies. The people who actually worked for their healthcare experiences premiums hikes to subsidize Obamacare members. So with around 6 million people loosing their healthcare insurance and an estimation of 7-8 million people who signed up actually equals itself out. Statistics show that after 4 years only 12% decrease in uninsured. Those 12% are said to be young-adults who were previously on their parents healthcare plan.This is, however, not the only fault in this law.

Under the ACA, businesses with employees over 50 are mandated to provide free healthcare insurance to all their employees. For some businesses this can be financially dangerous, especially the smaller businesses. Large corporations like Target and Walmart had to lay off a lot of employees part time to fulfill this employer mandate. 41% of business have completely stopped hiring and 19% have laid off several workers due to this mandate from Obamacare. This is just ridiculous.

For the sake of time. I will end it here for now. I will await my opponents arguments.

References

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

http://www.politifact.com...

http://www.mediaite.com...

http://kff.org...

Debate Round No. 1
theITdude

Pro

Good luck to my opponent.

Jobs
Back in the day, most pople had insurance from their employer and that was their plan. You said big corporations were laying off the workers. The ACA has a plan for this. The exchanges were established to create less expensive quality healthcare. Those workers may apply for a subsidy and a tax break. This will help the lower income families by providing them with quality insurance. They may pay more but these plans provide more. Quality is the keyword here. If their employer's plan provided them with bad healthcare they had no choice. Now the government is willing to give medical groups more money. If they provide quality healthcare, which is what the ACA is all about. Focusing healthcare by not the cost but by the outcomes. As for those 603 businesses, they may find it cheaper in the longhaul to buy insurance. Think about this: Employee in hospital= not working=not producing profits. If they are sick they can't do their jobs. If they declare bankruptcy for their bills they may go to court which means even more lost productivity.


The Workers
Obamacare is subsidized because of the government. The plans were designed to be cheap and reasonable. They cannot charge more because of, gender and pre- existing conditions. It makes it fairer to those people. Also think about those who buy coverage in their 20's and keep it after 65. Let's say 1 million do this it could save the U.S millions. That's 1 million less individuals who bill the government. That's one less person future generations will have to pay taxes for. More people will buy from the government causing many companies who don't deliver to shape up or risk extreme losses.

Barebones coverage


The people who lost their insurance did so because their plans were not enough. Here's a example. John, 23, has insurance. He has a barebones plan which dosent cover much. Let's say he gets into a car accident and goes to a hospital. They cannot turn him away. They treat him and he gets a bill for $ 40,000. His plan covers 10% of hospital stays. He ends up paying $36,000 and may have to declare bankruptcy. Not to mention any other therapy, follow-up care, and medications. He can't go to work and he may get fired. The new plans cover more at a reasonable price. This way those people get more bang for their buck. Those losing it can maybe get a better deal at a reasonable price.
Mray56

Con

Rebuttals

Based on my opponents arguments he seems to have not realized that this law was enacted nearly 4 years ago. So I will re-state many of my previous arguments because my opponent had failed to address them. Instead, he argues about what the law was projected for and the requirements the ACA was intended to meet. This law had failed to meet many of those requirements in the last 4 years. Not only was this law a disaster but it doesn’t fit Americas free market system.


“You said big corporations were laying off the workers. The ACA has a plan for this. The exchanges were established to create less expensive quality healthcare.”

The plan of the ACA resulted in workers being layed off. You see many businesses fail to financially meet the ACA standards. So you’re saying that the ACA has a plan for a mess that same law very much created? Doesn’t make sense. Is Obama going to make another unconstitutional executive order to expand this law? Supreme court will shut it down.


This will help the lower income families by providing them with quality insurance. They may pay more but these plans provide more. Quality is the keyword here.”

Cheap healthcare is not quality. Nothing is cheap and quality. Name one thing. In a capitalist country you get what you pay for.When plans are subsidized and there is no competition, the quality of products/services will greatly reduce. Adam Smith used the metaphor of The Invisible Hand to show how competition can produce quality products. This economic theory has proven itself over the years throughout our capitalist system. “ Individuals try to maximize their own good (and become wealthier), and by doing so, through trade and entrepreneurship, society as a whole is better off.” This applies to all forms business, corporations, private insurance companies, etc. I would prefer the private sector to take control of the national healthcare because traditionally they are the best at it. By competing they will force themselves to lower their prices. In a free market system people only buy the cheapest and most quality. If competition is eliminated there is no incentive to produce quality goods or services. This is why i think the private sector should run our healthcare. Greed is not necessarily a bad thing.

Obamacare has proven that the central government can’t take control of the national healthcare. This is not quality care. Many individuals, despite requirements, are losing their coverage due to illness or injuries. One mother of 49 who was diagnosed with a rare cancer, had to pay for her own medications because Obamacare doesn’t cover certain kinds of medications. She already had insurance that covered all her medical costs including medications to help treat this illness but she lost that coverage due to Obamacare restrictions. This is simply unacceptable.


Obamacare is subsidized because of the government.”

That’s the mistake. This law is as liberal as I gets with some conservative extensions. Members of Obamacare are subsidized through the private sector. The people who actually work and pay for their own insurance have a hike in premiums so private insurance companies can meet ACA standards. Now, because of this, many people are losing their coverage.

“Also think about those who buy coverage in their 20's and keep it after 65.”

Do you see that happening? No.

Conclusion

I like the concept of the ACA but I would rather have government stay out of our national healthcare. The ACA should have just been conformed of regulations upon private insurance companies, like they cannot charge more because of gender, age or pre- existing conditions. Regulations of that nature. Our federal government should regulate not run out healthcare system. The ACA has proven itself ineffective in providing quality healthcare to its members. The ACA is the very reason why our government should not run our healthcare.

References

http://www.lifenews.com...


http://www.foxnews.com...

http://www.investopedia.com...

Debate Round No. 2
theITdude

Pro

Okay I will now go through your arguments one by one, also I will be labeling
1.

My previous statement : “You said big corporations were laying off the workers. The ACA has a plan for this. The exchanges were established to create less expensive quality healthcare.”

Your Answer"The plan of the ACA resulted in workers being layed off. You see many businesses fail to financially meet the ACA standards. So you’re saying that the ACA has a plan for a mess that same law very much created? Doesn’t make sense. Is Obama going to make another unconstitutional executive order to expand this law? Supreme court will shut it down."

My answer: One of the ACA's goals is to make sure individuals get quality healthcare that is not tied down to a job. If they are fired they still can find affordable healthcare. The country is moving away from employer based coverage. I'm not saying the ACA wanted to fire people but that if they do lose their jobs they have the option of still buying insurance. The firings haven't been massive either. The unemployment rate is falling and this will level out.

2 Your statement ; "Cheap healthcare is not quality. Nothing is cheap and quality"
My Answer:I will refer you to a term doctors call fee for service. It means that doctors are billed by the number of tests or amount of procedures or visits. This lets people get unnessecary procedures. The government does not want to pay millions for bad healthcare. You should care because everyone paying taxes is paying to support the seniors on Medicare. You are paying. Why should the government be paying to a medical group because they say their the best when they provide bad care and there are others who provide the care better and cheaper. Now the government is willing to pay those who deliver better care that way the medical groups compete. It's basically like bargain shopping, why pay for a $50 dollar designer sweater at the designer store when you can go to a competitor for a cheaper price.

3. Your statement; "When plans are subsidized and there is no competition, the quality of products/services will greatly reduce competition."
My answer: There is competition. Lot's of competition. The government is willing to give money to medical groups that will perform. Tell me, what will happen when the millions of new patients get their insurance and the government tells them that if they want them they will have to perform. The medical groups will be all fighting to get contracts, that means competition to perform better.Which will mean better care.

4. Your statement:"Obamacare has proven that the central government can’t take control of the national healthcare.This is not quality care."
My answer :We are just making sure people have options. We are trying to give quality care to everyone. We are spending to much money paying for care that does not deliver. I don't think we should be paying taxes to support bad healthcare.

5. Your statement :"Many individuals, despite requirements, are losing their coverage due to illness or injuries."
My answer: The ACA says that if you have a pre-existing condition you can't be denied for coverage. Those with asthma,arthritis, and other conditions can get coverage. As time goes on more options will be available. The woman who has cancer can try joining a high risk pool.

6

My previous statement: "Obamacare is subsidized because of the government.”

Your statement; That’s the mistake. This law is as liberal as I gets with some conservative extensions. Members of Obamacare are subsidized through the private sector. The people who actually work and pay for their own insurance have a hike in premiums so private insurance companies can meet ACA standards. Now, because of this, many people are losing their coverage.

My answer: You are right, you are paying. Everyone else in America is paying.Paying to support Medicare and Social Security. The amount for hikes is peanuts compared to the amount you pay for Medicare and S.S. It is not like the hikes are forcing people to be ruined.

7

My previous statement :"Also think about those who buy coverage in their 20's and keep it after 65.”

Yours; Do you see that happening? No.

My answer: Who knows?
Just a statement: How do you think people reacted about Medicare ,Medicaid ,and Social Security.
People all said stuff about that but tknow we can't live without it. If someone tried to cancel those people would be in arms.





Mray56

Con


“There is competition. Lot's of competition. The government is willing to give money to medical groups that will perform. Tell me, what will happen when the millions of new patients get their insurance and the government tells them that if they want them they will have to perform. The medical groups will be all fighting to get contracts, that means competition to perform better.Which will mean better care.”


Where are your sources? I have provided my arguments with sources now I expect you to as well. Medical groups that will perform? Is this some kind of compensation? I have never heard of this. How much money are we talking here? Is this separate from the coverage? Please clarify


“We are just making sure people have options. We are trying to give quality care to everyone. We are spending to much money paying for care that does not deliver. I don't think we should be paying taxes to support bad healthcare.


“The ACA says that if you have a pre-existing condition you can't be denied for coverage. Those with asthma,arthritis, and other conditions can get coverage. As time goes on more options will be available. The woman who has cancer can try joining a high risk pool.”


Your arguments are composed of the requirements the ACA intended to meet. The ACA had failed to meet those requirements. So therefore, this act shouldn’t have been enacted, even if they perceived certain glitches and flaws.


“ You are right, you are paying. Everyone else in America is paying.Paying to support Medicare and Social Security. The amount for hikes is peanuts compared to the amount you pay for Medicare and S.S. It is not like the hikes are forcing people to be ruined.”


No no no.. The hikes are granted to the people so the private insurers can meet the ACA standards. A lot of private insurers can’t meet those standards so many people end up losing their coverage.


The argument im trying to make is this. Fact: 6-7 million people lost their insurance due to Obamacare. As your resolution follows, America should not have the ACA. This law should have been repealed a long time ago.


I just want to make clear, I like the intentions of the president and this law. But wow, this law was poorely executed. Im all for helping Americans get covered but not at his expense. I truly believe every American should be covered. But the ACA, unfortunetly, is a failure.


Debate Round No. 3
theITdude

Pro

theITdude forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
theITdude

Pro

theITdude forfeited this round.
Mray56

Con

My opponent has forfeited. I extend all my arguments. please vote con
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by whiteflame 6 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: lannan13// Mod action: NOT Removed<

6 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture

[*Reason for non-removal*] This debate is well outside the statute of limitations, as it ended over 2 years ago. Therefore, it is not moderated.
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Posted by whiteflame 6 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: lannan13// Mod action: NOT Removed<

6 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture

[*Reason for non-removal*] This debate is well outside the statute of limitations, as it ended over 2 years ago. Therefore, it is not moderated.
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
theITdudeMray56Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture