The Instigator
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Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Sonofkong
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

American Cheese

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Sonofkong
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/17/2011 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,550 times Debate No: 17528
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

unlockable

Pro

My argument is pro-American cheese. My opponent is anti-American cheese.

I'm motivated to post this because I am sick and tired of people bad-mouthing American cheese, whether seriously or in jest.

American cheese doesn't deserve to be bad-mouthed because it tastes great, it complements many different foods, it melts well, it's affordable, it is durable, it is produced using cutting-edge modern technology, and it is associated with America, the greatest nation in the known universe.

Thus I believe that American cheese is among the best cheeses, right up there with extra-extra-oude Gouda kaas.

However, for the purposes of this debate, I'm just saying that American cheese is good enough that it doesn't deserve all the negative attitudes directed against it. My opponent in this debate will ideally be one of those anti-American cheese snobs who takes every opportunity to badmouth American cheese. The opponent will have to justify his culinary bigotry. My goal will be to persuade the audience that such bigotry is unjustified.

The rules of this debate are: 1. No semantics*; 2. whatever other rules I toss out as the debate rounds progress. Let the standard of legitimacy and fairness of my rules be a factor in people's votes and comments.

*stick to substantive issues.
Sonofkong

Con

I accept my opponents debate after noticing that unlike him I hate american cheese. To vent these feelings of living in america and hating this nation's cheese, I entered this debate as my soon as possible.
The following in this round is an introduction and not a complete argument.
I ask my opponent to do an experiment. Cook a bagel, insert lunchmeat if you will, and melt muenster, parmesan or any european cheese and notice the taste difference. I even suggest using my large supply of nameless french cheeses which are unnameably delicious. If you concurr with the view that american cheese you are might wish to look at ones thighs as the main taste sensation is from the fat reserves. that is the equivalent of going to your local french cuisinier (mine being called Mi Ami) and shouting like a barbarian that you want
" KFC KFC KFC KFC!"

http://s1.static.gotsmile.net...

And as you will see american cheese is not even cheese.
Debate Round No. 1
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Pro

I respect my opponent's opinion but it is difficult for me to respond to some of the incomprehensible statements he makes: "if you concurr with the view that american cheese you are might wish to look at ones thighs as the main taste sensation is from the fat reserves."

I think that my opponent intends to say that it is wrong to consider fat a "main taste sensation." That is off-topic, but for what it's worth I'll assert in response that it is actually very appropriate to consider fat "the main taste sensation." As Julia Child once said, "with enough butter, anything is good." Fat, sugars, and salt are often the key ingredients in delicious food. French cuisine, which my opponent apparently enjoys, is so good in part because many French dishes, both desserts and entrees, are heavy in fat, especially butter. In that respect, French food is similar to American fried chicken: both are fatty and both are delicious as a result.

Con asserts that other cheeses taste better than American cheese and invites me to take a taste test. Proving that other cheeses taste better, however, does not win the argument for Con. As I stated in the first round, "for the purposes of this debate, I'm just saying that American cheese is good enough that it doesn't deserve all the negative attitudes directed against it. My opponent in this debate will ideally be one of those anti-American cheese snobs who takes every opportunity to badmouth American cheese. The opponent will have to justify his culinary bigotry. My goal will be to persuade the audience that such bigotry is unjustified."

It's clear that my opponent is a culinary bigot: he "entered this debate as soon as possible" to "vent these feelings of living in america and hating this nation's cheese." He said, "I hate American cheese."

The issue to be debated isn't whether American cheese is "the best" (though I think it is), but rather whether it deserves culinary hatred. My opponent wins this debate if he persuades you that American cheese is worthy of hatred. My goal, however, is merly to defend her honor. I still win even though you can prefer the taste of other cheeses (America is, after all, a free country), just so long as I persuade you that American cheese is worthy of some modicum of respect.

As I said in the opening round, American cheese doesn't deserve to be bad mouthed.

Flavor. American cheese has a uniquely smooth and mild flavor profile. It occupies an important niche in the pantheon of cheeses, all of which are suited to distinct purposes in part because of their flavor. The smooth mildness of American cheese is meritorious for several reasons. First, this allows the cheese to have broad appeal to diverse flavor pallettes (no pungency). By having such broad appeal, American cheese can be served to a diverse group of people without risk that it will be unappealing to the pallette of any individual. Second, because the cheese is mild, it is unlikely to dominate the flavor of a dish or meal unless the preparer of food specifically intends otherwise. It can therefore be used as an effective complement to other flavors. Third, American cheese's flavor profile enables preparers to use American cheese in fusion cooking: American cheese is not typecast into one culinary purpose or another, in the way that certain sharp or moldy cheeses are only suitable for a relatively narrow range of meal arrangements. Thus American cheese is not just used in burgers and sandwiches (grilled cheese, patty melts, mmm mmmm!), but also in Tex-Mex cooking, casseroles, soups, meatloafs, hash, and myriad other dishes. American cheese also has some diversity within its flavor profile: there's swiss-style American cheese, for example, to suit people who want something a little tangier. http://recipes.wikia.com...

Texture. American cheese also has a distinct and versatile texture. It is firm when undistrubed but softens when eaten, thus combining the advantages of hard cheeses (like cheddar) with those of creamy cheeses (like brie) with none of the disadvantages. Moreover, American cheese can be purchased in a variety of textures, such as deli-style cheese logs, cheese sticks, canned cheese (Cheez-Wiz), cream cheee (Velveeta), liquid dips, etc. This is another level of versatility that allows American cheese to be applied in diverse culinary contexts. Complenting this versatile texture is the fact that American cheese melts faster and more uniformly (no grease pools, no lumps) than any other cheese, making it a perfect addition to hot sandwiches or hearty dips. It should also be noted here that American cheese is often purchased in single-serving slices, which is perfect for sandwich making because it allows for instant and predictable portions that are already sized to fit most burgers and sandwiches.

Processing. American cheese, like Laughing Cow and other select cheese brands and styles, is a processed cheese. Basically this means that it includes a variety of dairy ingredients as well as additives, instead of just milk and bacteria. http://en.wikipedia.org... Being a processed cheese has several advantages. Firstly, this is the reason that American cheese is able to achieve a hybrid flavor profile (cheddar and colby: http://en.wikipedia.org... ) and it is also the reason for why it comes in a variety of textures and melts so easily. Second, it is easier to digest and can therefore be enjoyed by more people than other cheeses, whose bacteria can make some people gassy, or whose pure milk content may trigger lactose sensitivity. Third, the use of additives dramatically lengthens the shelf life of American cheese compared to other cheeses. This is advantageous for the obvious reason that it reduces the risk of waste and enables American cheese to serve as a staple: just buy a log and keep it in the fridge and you'll never have to worry about whether there's any cheese in the house (in America, public food dispensaries often don't even bother to refridgerate their American cheese logs!). Slower spoilage is better than quicker spoilage. Fourth, due to the large scale processing and long shelf life, American cheese is probbaly the most affordable cheese in the world. Paying less is better than paying more. (One can argue, of course, that you get less value when purchasing American cheese compared to other cheeses, but a low price is good-in-itself notwithstanding.) Fifth, the fact that it is a large scale production process that was only invented in the twentieth century should be a bonus to everybody who fetishizes progressivism, science, and technology. Many cheese lovers subscribe to pastoralism--the subculture that romanticizes "the simple country life"--and so they get off on the thought of hand-milking milking a cow or of cheese rolls aging in a musty shed. But for the rest of us, the giant vats and shiny metal machines and noise and busyness entailed in the processing of ingredients into American cheese is way, way cooler.

America. Being christened "American" means that American cheese should enjoy all the positive associations of America: freedom, globalization, capitalism, hegemony, popular art, Nobel prizes, etc. (see, e.g. ). Moreover, the history of American cheese should reinforce this reverence: during World War II food shortages, American cheese was the only cheese eaten by law-abiding and patriotic American civilians.

That's all I have for now. I look forward to my opponent's response.

When the time comes, vote "Pro American Cheese!"
Sonofkong

Con

Extreme apologies for all gramaticall errors. Cut and paste was glitched up in the act of using an associates nearly expired computer which resulted in an incomprehesible mess. Anyway I must purport and reinstate credibility in the vandalization of my easily interpreted statements.

* "...my opponent intends to say that it is wrong to consider fat a 'main taste sensation.' That is off-topic, but for what it's worth I'll assert in response that it is actually very appropriate to consider fat 'the main taste sensation.' As Julia Child once said, 'with enough butter, anything is good.'"

Fat has had a slippery relationship with food criticism as any newspaper will tell you. The commonly held view is that fat can be considered in excellent cuisine when it comes as a by-product. In parmesan this is the case whereas american cheese (which is a mix of several cheeses and industrial ingredients as seen further below) is in most cases (outside of in crackers such as the oh so succulent Cheez-its and other related dry snack foods) added with what is often pure fat. If this must be accepted than a McDonalds cheeseburger would be an acceptable entry for iron chef, not just a subliminal advertisement.


*"It's clear that my opponent is a culinary bigot: he 'entered this debate as soon as possible' to 'vent these feelings of living in america and hating this nation's cheese.' He said, 'I hate American cheese.'"

It appears that according to pro having an opinion is grounds for a bad argument. The statement above I had said about vented feelings was a joke at the innocence of this debate although I'ld be willing to make this an argument of religious proportions.

My opponent has also made original (or rather oregano) statements of his own which are of similar merit.
*"The smooth mildness of American cheese is meritorious for several reasons. First, this allows the cheese to have broad appeal to diverse flavor pallettes (no pungency). By having such broad appeal, American cheese can be served to a diverse group of people without risk that it will be unappealing to the pallette of any individual. Second, because the cheese is mild, it is unlikely to dominate the flavor of a dish or meal unless the preparer of food specifically intends otherwise."

Smoothness is hardly unique among foods nor is blandness. I prescribe water for anyone who is lacking those regards. It is only a virtue as he said in commercially staying popular and in conjunction with other foods as a bland filler such as bread. But unlike bread adding fat. However filling a hamburger and selling in the popular kraft squares which are advertised as themselves is not the purpose of this argument. I might add that many cheeses are better at most or all of these requirements (such as pure cheddar, parmesan and other pizza famed cheeses.) Few are worse.

*"It is firm when undistrubed but softens when eaten... textures, such as deli-style cheese logs, cheese sticks, canned cheese (Cheez-Wiz), cream cheee (Velveeta), liquid dips, etc. This is another level of versatility that allows American cheese to be applied in diverse culinary contexts. Complenting this versatile texture is the fact that American cheese melts faster and more uniformly"

When cooking cheeses are often customized to reach the desired consistency. My oppontent also lists the varieties in which it available commercially which does nothing to the merits of the substance which is being debated.

* "American cheese... is a processed cheese. Basically this means that it includes a variety of dairy ingredients as well as additives, instead of just milk and bacteria.http://en.wikipedia.org... a processed cheese has several advantages. Firstly, this is the reason that American cheese is able to achieve a hybrid flavor profile (cheddar and colby: http://en.wikipedia.org...;) and it is also the reason for why it comes in a variety of textures and melts so easily. Second, it is easier to digest and can therefore be enjoyed by more people than other cheeses, whose bacteria can make some people gassy, or whose pure milk content may trigger lactose sensitivity. Third, the use of additives dramatically lengthens the shelf life of American cheese compared to other cheeses."

Yes, American cheese is a cheese compilation made specifically for mass appeal. That is not the main point of controversy, that stemming from it is not made as a mixture of individual cheeses, my opponent claiming cheddar and colby, but is instead seperate cheese ingredients such as whey, milk protein and milk fat. many U.S. Jurisdictions don't even label it cheese. ( http://en.wikipedia.org...) As for hybrid flavor, there are many better mixtures of hybridization, (involving actual cheeses mind you) that not being much of a merit. If i was low enough I would even make a semantic argument that american cheese is not exclusively american (nor named american named abroad as processed cheese) nor real cheese. And might instead be reffering to my neighbors homemade cheese. I would like to add that those who I know that are gassy or intolerant avoid cheese altogether.

*"it reduces the risk of waste and enables American cheese to serve as a staple: just buy a log and keep it in the fridge and you'll never have to worry about whether there's any cheese in the house "

I assume pro does not mean a cheese wheel but rather a cheese log which I have never once encountered in apurchaseable state and doubt such large quantities exist. However just because a bagel I find catches mold for example does not give merit to biscuits. In normal consumer habits no cheese is molded outside of complete neglect. Anyone who says otherwise must also prefer anorexic children as there are less consequences with neglect.

*"American cheese is probbaly the most affordable cheese in the world."

I'm afraid to say cheddar is, especially in brittian, the most common and affordable cheese in the world. It is also more tasty although the basic point is that price matters none in comparison to a product. Although I despise for instance the pricing range of a blu-ray system does not change that it is a better product that a DVD player and I yearn to afford one.

*" Fifth, the fact that it is a large scale production process that was only invented in the twentieth century should be a bonus to everybody who fetishizes progressivism, science, and technology. Many cheese lovers subscribe to pastoralism--the subculture that romanticizes "the simple country life"--and so they get off on the thought of hand-milking milking a cow or of cheese rolls aging in a musty shed. But for the rest of us, the giant vats and shiny metal machines and noise and busyness entailed in the processing of ingredients into American cheese is way, way cooler."

I advise my opponent to watch Food Inc. and not only learn the downsides of a mechanized food industry but know that it permeats most of cheesemaking. You can bet that the few homemade and aged cheeses are higher quality and deserve to stand triumphant above the bottom of that barrel.

Overall my opponent has the burden to prove that critics are wrong in beleiving that American cheese does not deserve it's mass production similar to myself detesting the success of say the latest transformers movie and hoping as many people as possible see this years Woody allen film.
American cheese has as my opponent says all the qualities of america. Except for an strong economy, military, brilliance, culture, etc times infinity, and even pastoralism untill we are left with assimmilative blandness
Liking a finemade piece of art does not make one against progress and the majority of cheeses are finemade peices of art compared to the B-movie cheapness of American cheese. It is no mark of snobbishness to find some profound joy in the world. And I have seen joy in those unnameable cheeses.
Vote for "Pro Fine Cheese" and "Anti Factory Product."
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Debate Round No. 2
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Pro

Your last response is excellent, and I wish I had the energy to respond to it, but I don't.
Sonofkong

Con

Sonofkong forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 6 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Cheddar cheese is my favorite but I love American cheese for its convenience, pre-cut wrapped slices, and durability. Truly an American invention. Priorities while making food in America: 1) Long Shelf life 2) Visually appealing 3) Easy to cook 4) Appeals to a mass market ............... 100) Great Taste.
Posted by brian_eggleston 6 years ago
brian_eggleston
For a snack yesterday I had a bacon, brie and grape sandwich. Here is the list of ingredients on wrapper of the brie cheese:

UNPASTEURISED MILK.

Meanwhile, here is a list of the ingredients of Kraft Easy Cheese:

MILK, WATER, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, WHEY, CANOLA OIL, MILK PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF SALT, SODIUM CITRATE, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, LACTIC ACID, SORBIC ACID AS A PRESERVATIVE, SODIUM ALGINATE, APOCAROTENAL (COLOR), ANNATTO (COLOR), CHEESE CULTURE, ENZYMES.

Is that even cheese? I doubt Kraft would be allowed to sell it as 'cheese' within the European Union.

Maybe as 'chemically-enhanced, cheese-flavoured food substitute'?
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
Another debate on American cheese!? No way, I'll stick to religion and politics.

I remember checing out a forum where the moderator had posted a stern warning about how rants and abuse would not be tolerated, even though the subject stirred a lot controversy. The forum was about barbeque.
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
It's about time someone took a stand for a righteous cause.
Posted by unlockable 6 years ago
unlockable
If there's more to discuss after this debate concludes, then you're free to initiate your own debate on this subject!
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
The debate makes no sense. How can one be pro American cheese? Does that mean you'll vote for it if it runs for office? Whether a person likes it or not 100% subjective. Con seems to be arguing "other cheeses taste better" as the anti position. We'll see.

Such an important topic should not be left to an indefinite resolution.
Posted by Sonofkong 6 years ago
Sonofkong
Apologies for the spelling mistakes. Cut and paste is glitched up on my computer.
Posted by unlockable 6 years ago
unlockable
Good questions!

The pro position is pro American cheese and the con position is anti American cheese.

I stated that I think American cheese is among the best, but the issue is merely whether American cheese is good or bad. Con believes that American cheese is bad. I personally believe that such an opinion is based on bigotry or snobbery, but Con would probably disagree.

No semantics means "stick to substantive issues." Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "semantics." The issues you raised about durability and processed cheese product are legitimate substantive issues. For further interpretation of Rule #1, please consult Rule #2.

...Rule #2 is NON NEGOTIABLE!
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
... and get rid of Rule 2.
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
What is the resolution? Is it "American cheese is one of the best cheeses in the world."? Or is it "Bigotry against American cheese is unjustified."? Since bigotry, by definition, is always unjustified, you would win that.

What does "no semantics" imply? Must we agree that "processed cheese product" is "cheese"? How can "best" be debated without semantics? For example, you cite "durable" as a characteristic of best. Miliary MREs are vert durable, so is that evidence that they are the best food in the world?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by airmax1227 6 years ago
airmax1227
unlockableSonofkongTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gave up